Joint MARC / MAFCA Clubs

[Dick Carne]

Recently there has been some discussion bandied about with some of the folks in our local MARC Region about taking on a joint MARC/MAFCA club status. Opinions on both sides of the issue have come to light, and I suppose depending on either advocates' preferences, arguably good reasons to support either or both positions have been made. So essentially my questions are these:

(1) What have other groups that have elected to pursue such a dual affinity found to be the "pro's" and conversely, the "con's" of such a dual relationship? and

(2) Of those that may have taken this course, would you consider doing it again?

Thanks in advance for sharing any thoughts and experiences that may come to light.

Dick

[ctlikon0712]

Local A owners in my area have looked into forming a club and then with that a national affiliation. We had the same thought/questions, so I am interested as well.
Mostly what I got out of the discussions was that MARC was more east coast and MAFCA was more West. Oh and MARC seemed more biases towards finer point restorations and MAFCA less so as evidenced by their show judging system, especially the touring classes.

[Steve Wastler]

One local I belong to is members of both, I am not so active, so I don't know your answers, but here is a link, http://www.gwcmodela.org/ lots of contacts listed under officers.

Clem, can you answer any of this?

[frank55a]

From a local club stand point, there probably is not much difference. Both support the Model A hobby.

Both MARC and MAFCA have very similar activities from a national standpoint. They both use the same judging standards to judge fine point cars. MAFCA uses the fine point judging standards to judge Touring Class cars. While MARC also has Touring Class Judging at their National summer meets, they use their own Touring Class Judging Standards which are not nearly as critical as MAFCA's Touring Class or either clubs fine point systems. Also MARC's Touring Class judging is performed by the participants.

Local affiliation is more MAFCA west and MARC is more east.

[Richard Wilson]

My experience was with the local club. When the club was about 5 years old and had about 25 families we voted to join the MARC national club for their club insurance. About half of the members quit rather than pay the additional MARC dues. If we had joined MAFCA also we would have lost the other half.

Need to add that I am a member of both MARC, 24 years, and MAFCA, 25 years. Personally, I see this as one way of giving back to the hobby.

[msmaron]

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Originally Posted by Don Turley

Actually, both national clubs require 100% membership from a Chapter / Region. Are all of your local club members willing to join both national clubs? Current membership cost is $40 MAFCA plus $38 MARC plus $? local club dues. That is about $100 +/- per year.

Sorry Don that is not true, in fact 100% False, We are a dual club and love it.. We became a dual club when MARC began to take away all the insurance from selected events and clubs. Our swap which is in its 29th year was as of last year not insured by MARC< they had refused to issue a cert, MAFCA immediately did with out any question and one of the issues upon joining them was did the members have to join the National and the answer... NOT AT ALL...hence our bylaws also reflect that. We are starting to do more events with both clubs and will continue to do so, It is a great idea for everyone large and small and with the insurance issues with MARC for us it was a no brainier, more events, more people, more new members. Success all around in our opinion.

[Jim/GA]

The Greater Houston Model A Restorers Club is both a MAFCA and a MARC region. We require officers to be members of both national clubs, but only require members to belong to one or the other (but we encourage belonging to both). We like having the full range of meets, tours, etc. to choose from. Two really nice magazines to look through. Both clubs have great people (and there is a lot of overlap), so where is the downside?

[Chris in WNC]

I helped found the Jacksonville Model As, chartered by both MARC & MAFCA.

national MARC membership is mandatory for all club
members,
national MAFCA membership is only required for "officers" (actually board of directors)......

[redmodelt]

Why not just form a LLC and not belong to ether club. My understanding of the insurance provided by the national clubs is it only covers the club not the individual members if there is an accident. If you are involved in an accident when on a tour you the individual involved needs to have insurance because you are responsible for damages. If you hold or have an event, don't you have to provide separate insurance anyway, payed for by your club?

[glenn in camino]

I've been an advocate of one club, 'The Model A Ford Club", for a long time. I don't think the old timers egos will ever let it happen. Perhaps someday in the future the younger movers and shakers in both clubs will realize that two national clubs for one car is stupid and finally find common ground. Sorry if I offend the ego maniac old timers

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

I've been an advocate of one club, 'The Model A Ford Club", for a long time. I don't think the old timers egos will ever let it happen. Perhaps someday in the future the younger movers and shakers in both clubs will realize that two national clubs for one car is stupid and finally find common ground. Sorry if I offend the ego maniac old timers

I am with Glenn on this one. I believe as the current generation of Model A enthusiasts pass on, membership in both national clubs will decline and union of the two clubs will likely happen.


About 25 years ago when I joined our club, and MAFCA, there was a measure on the MAFCA ballot to change the by-laws to remove the requirement that members of a local chapter be required to also be members of MAFCA.

I asked one of the MAFCA board members at a meet why they were proposing such a change. Did they not want all chapter members to be MAFCA members as well?

The answer I received I thought was very common sence. The reason for the change was because it was a bylaw that was not only ignored, but it was unenforceable. Kind of like national prohibition. A local club is not going to kick a member out because they refuse to join MAFCA. MAFCA is not going to revoke a charter because there is a rumor that some of their members are not MAFCA members. The by law was changed. Of course local clubs should encourage their members to join the national affiliation, but that is far as it goes.


Not too long ago I believe MAFCA was proposing to put the by law back into affect. I don't know if they did or not, but if they did it will still be ignored and unenforceable.

Tom Endy

[Steve Plucker]

Did Fordbarn not conduct a survey on this very fact at one time?

I know the results do not reflect the entire membership of MARC and MAFCA but it sure would be interesting if both clubs would pose the question next time they send out voting ballots.

I to am with Glenn.

Pluck

[Mike V. Florida]

We went throught this, member of MARC national club or not, last April.
MARC has regions and you can't be a member of the region without being a member of MARC. Just like you can't be a member of the Kiwanis club of Fort Lauderdale without being a member of Kiwanis International.

A reason for the MARC national membership is to be covered by their liability insurance. If you are on a club trip, for example, and some kid slides down your fender and cuts themselves on the trim of your running boards you will be defended in a lawsuit under the MARC insurance as a member. If you are not a national member and you are just traveling with the group and the same thing happens, it's on you.

Here are some of the actual questions I asked MARC and the answers I received back from the vice president.

As a club wedrive out cars together to lunch, a museum, etc. Do I have any coverage from the national club?
Yes, because you're participating in a MARC activity, MARC's insurance would defend any MARC members against a legal suit of liability.

If we do something as a club and a non member comes along, does it void our coverage or is just the non member that is not covered?

No it does not void coverage, However, MARC's insurance has no obligation to defend a non-MARC person.

When it comes to MAFCA and their insurance I don't know. If you are not a member of the national club are you covered under the national insurance?

Back to the original question.To partake in the national tours, meets and conventions you need to be a member of the national club that is hosting, so Pros, members have additional venues to see and/show their cars, assist in the special programs the each have, and an additional magazine.

Cons, you have to pay two sets of dues to receive all the pros of both national clubs.

[MVal]

I would have to question the accuracy of MARC's Vp reply to Mike V's question above. While I am more familar with MAFCA's insurance than MARC's, I can't believe MARC's insurance covers the INDIVIDUAL members of the club while on a tour. My understanding has always been that the national insurance covers the CLUB, not the individual members and the members have to have their own personal car insurance. So if on tour and an individual has a wreck, his own personal insurance will come into play. Should the other party decide that including the club in his/her suit because if there was no tour the accident wouldn't have happened, he/she will also name the club in the suit and that will cause the national club's insurance to come into play to defend the CLUB only. This is also called "going for the deepest pockets". Regardless, every state requires all drivers to have their own personal insurance on their cars.

As a aside, try to get MARC's club insurance coverage in California--my understanding is that it is unavailable whether or not you have 100% MARC membership!! But that is for another thread!!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by MVal

I would have to question the accuracy of MARC's Vp reply to Mike V's question above. While I am more familar with MAFCA's insurance than MARC's, I can't believe MARC's insurance covers the INDIVIDUAL members of the club while on a tour. My understanding has always been that the national insurance covers the CLUB, not the individual members and the members have to have their own personal car insurance. So if on tour and an individual has a wreck, his own personal insurance will come into play. Should the other party decide that including the club in his/her suit because if there was no tour the accident wouldn't have happened, he/she will also name the club in the suit and that will cause the national club's insurance to come into play to defend the CLUB only. This is also called "going for the deepest pockets". Regardless, every state requires all drivers to have their own personal insurance on their cars.

As a aside, try to get MARC's club insurance coverage in California--my understanding is that it is unavailable whether or not you have 100% MARC membership!! But that is for another thread!!

That is correct! A moving accident that results in liability litigation will not be defended by MARC's insurance carrier for the member. It WILL protect the "mother" club and it's officers. That is why events such as parades and timed events are not covered.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

I've been an advocate of one club, 'The Model A Ford Club", for a long time. I don't think the old timers egos will ever let it happen. Perhaps someday in the future the younger movers and shakers in both clubs will realize that two national clubs for one car is stupid and finally find common ground. Sorry if I offend the ego maniac old timers

This is not directed at you or anyone else but just the prospect. I've been hearing the same thing for about 38 years. When I was 18 years old with very little money in my pockets I joined BOTH MAFCA and MARC. Why? Simply because I wanted to receive TWO different magazines, the option of more/different national meets, etc. The bottom line was OPTIONS! I value those options and would be seriously unhappy to lose that.

My big question is why folks actually desire that type of change. What exactly is the gain that would benefit me?

Sorry for helping to take this off-topic.

[Bob-A]

I also like the idea of one national "A" club. But like what has been said: "Egos.........".

Marco I didn't know you where part of the "Me" generation?.....

Bob-A

[Fred]

I agree with Marco 100%...I very much enjoy each clubs magazine, and while in Viet Nan in 1965, 67, & 69 was always looking to get them, even though most were beat up a bit and a month or so late !! They made for good reading, and still do.. P.S. Still have them !!..

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

... I joined BOTH MAFCA and MARC. Why? Simply because I wanted to receive TWO different magazines ...

Me too!

[John LaVoy]

I am in agreement that some how we should establish a one club national. The duplication of effort is expensive and if we were to pool the resources we could reduce costs and efforts. MAFCA has around 12-14,000 members, MARC has around 8-10,000. Of course I along with many people belong to both clubs so the total member ship would be less than a combination of the two.

MAFCA is doing more things across the country now, the last banquet was in SC and the national tour is starting in VA and ending in TN. MARC did a meet in San Diego a couple of years ago so they are both trying to maintain some semblance of a "national" presence.

But if you merged the two clubs we get a Restorer or News every month, just slide the publication of one of the magazines by a month from the other. There would be the need for only one insurance policy, we could eliminate one office staff and save the expense.

Let me float an idea. Why not combine the two, headquarter it at The Gilmore and turn over the museum operation to the new club? That should stir up some comments!