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Old 02-24-2012, 01:09 PM   #1
700rpm
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Default Position of the spark lever question

When I bought my first model A, my dad, who grew up with them when they were new, told me to retard the spark when starting, and as soon as it fired, pull the spark down to full advance and drive off, leaving the spark lever there. My reprint of Victor Page's book from 1928 says the same thing: drive the car with the spark fully advanced. For 50 years that's how I've driven my Model A's.

But now I've been advised by three knowledgeable Model A guys that actually the spark should be set to about the 9:00 position and driven there, adjusted occasionally depending on load and road conditions. I have always retarded the spark on steep hills, but otherwise left it advanced. Until now. I have to admit that my cars drive much better with this newer adjustment method. So my question is, were my father and Victor Page just wrong? Or was this the way Ford originally advised new car owners to drive their cars, with the lever fully advanced? I don't have an owner's manual; what does it say in there?
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I'm no expert but I found our "A" idles best with the timing advanced just a hair and runs good down the road around 3/4 advanced at 35-45mph and full advance at 50+.

Technically speaking I believe the "A" timing system gives around 30 degrees of advance all the way down, there is NO WAY the engine could possibly like idling or running slow with that much advance.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

It all kinda depends on where the initial timing is set.. If it is set correctly then generally they like about 1/2 to 2/3 for most driving and full for cruising at higher road speeds.. It seems that all cars are not created equal and each has its 'sweet spot' that you'll find after you're used to playing with the car.. Mine doesn't really like full advance..
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Spark lever position for starting and driving is well covered in the Model A Instruction Book.

Modifications may alter the original recommendations somewhat.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I've been told by a fella in our club that matching the lever position to the intended engine RPM for crusing seems to be pretty suitable for most driving..

i.e. Full Retard for parades and starting, as the engine is at the lowest rpms, tjhen about 1/2 advanced (down) as the motor runs about 1000-1500 rpm for running around town (1/2 the rpms the motor is capable) and 3/4 to full advance for wide open running. The key is to run the lever to match the average RPM's of the motor, from idle at full retard, to full rpms at full advance..

Also, the same fellow also pointted out that dropping your spark lever into full retard on a long hill will give you a bit more engine braking. Each A seems to have it's preference, so these are just suggestions.. your milage may vary (lol)

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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also, retarding the spark on long hills, as stated above is a must I overheated my first A on it's maiden voyage on a 6% grade.. Live and learn!
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Don't remember where I heard it, but someone suggested full retard for starting (to avoid the dreaded starter kickback), then 2-3 notches of advance at idle, then add 1 notch of advance for each 5 MPH going down the road...

Which is just another way of saying what most above have said...

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Old 02-24-2012, 03:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

My barn fresh tudor ran great with the spark half down for a while, then it got running bad I discovered my moving the spark handle over time had worked all the dirt loose that was keeping the worn linkage at the bottom of the spark rod tight, so when I was setting it all the way down it was only advancing the spark maybe a 1/3 of the way.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

This might sound a little dumb to retard it is down than put it back up to drive ,or put it a nine to drive, Rickmass
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Retard up, Advance down.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Thank,s Carl as this is my first A Tthe guy I bought it from never told me.Thank,s again Rickmass
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

UP to start, ALL the way down to drive. I've never had a problem with it, and my grandpa drove them this way for 60 years without a problem.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

There is a great 2 part video on YouTube by Les Andrews about timing your model A. In it he describes how to use the advance lever in different driving conditions. He says to fully retard to start and thereafter to advance the lever one notch for every 5 mph. There are 11 notches.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

My understanding is, use less advance when running hi-compression heads.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
When I bought my first model A, my dad, who grew up with them when they were new, told me to retard the spark when starting, and as soon as it fired, pull the spark down to full advance and drive off, leaving the spark lever there. My reprint of Victor Page's book from 1928 says the same thing: drive the car with the spark fully advanced. For 50 years that's how I've driven my Model A's.

But now I've been advised by three knowledgeable Model A guys that actually the spark should be set to about the 9:00 position and driven there, adjusted occasionally depending on load and road conditions. I have always retarded the spark on steep hills, but otherwise left it advanced. Until now. I have to admit that my cars drive much better with this newer adjustment method. So my question is, were my father and Victor Page just wrong? Or was this the way Ford originally advised new car owners to drive their cars, with the lever fully advanced? I don't have an owner's manual; what does it say in there?
Were they wrong I say yes. But they did it for a reason, it would be to hard for the average driver to under stand the best way to use the spark lever. Most do not know what the lever really does.

Last edited by George Miller; 02-24-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
UP to start, ALL the way down to drive. I've never had a problem with it, and my grandpa drove them this way for 60 years without a problem.
me too and i have ben driveing them for 70 years
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

And if you"WONDER" if your timin' is "RIGHT"???, do this: Spark up, she goes,"Tada, Tada, Tada, Tada, very SMOOTHLY, 1/2 down, a faster SMOOTH idle, full down, an even faster, but sorta' "ROLLING" idle. WHEN YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE, DON'T MESS WITH IT, IT'S PERFECT!
Sorry for all the "YELLING" capital letters, but that's how Chief said it to me! Bill W.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

That's the greatest explanantion I've heard so far Bill! Well put.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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Originally Posted by ora masters View Post
me too and i have ben driveing them for 70 years

And your worried about setting the base timing right? At this point who cares as long as it runs apparently.


I agree with George Miller, however I do not agree with operating the timing control in this manner, its just plan wrong. I also have to ASSUME its terribly hard on Babbit and anything else getting pounded by the pistons getting rammed into the igniting fuel way too soon. The so called rolling idle is your engine destroying it self.

You know how to tell when its set right idling? Advance it until the engine speeds up, at one point its going to stop speeding up and its going to start running rough. Back up a hair and thats the sweet spot, the point where it runs happy. This is ONLY true at idle, any given RPM and throttle position has a specific sweet spot, ergo why a human cannot control timing advance accurately. You should at least TRY to control it the best you can though, simply running full advance is not the answer.


If this response came across rude I'm sorry, its not intended to be that way.

Last edited by MrTube; 02-24-2012 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Thanks everyone. All my cars are tuned to a gnat's eyebrow, and I will henceforth drive them with greater attention to the position of the spark levers.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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UP to start, ALL the way down to drive. I've never had a problem with it, and my grandpa drove them this way for 60 years without a problem.
I agree with Jordan and I have mostly driven my model A's this way for 52 years. The only time that I slightly retard the spark is if I am driving very slow as in easing along on trails or on hills if driving slowly. I usually keep the momentum built up and don't need to retard on hills at speed. This is the way that the older guys that drove model A's in the day taught me. My september 29 still has the original babbit and I have run the hell out of this engine with the spark fully advanced for 52 years. I think that most don't know how to set the timing or use the spark. If you are driving slow enough for the car to buck and run ruff, retard the spark untill it smoothes out.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

My coupe with a Brumfield 5.9 runs best only 6 clicks advanced. It starts best at 2 clicks,but idles great fully retarded.It took many tests going up long hills to find what works best.Carburation will also be a factor on performance. I get good mileage,so for my coupe the settings must be close to optimal. Good luck ,model A's are the best !
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:48 PM   #23
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Each A has its own sweet spot. and playing with the positions is the only way to find it. move it up till it starts to run rough than move it down till it runs rough the middle of these two rough spots is usually the sweet spot. and like others said this spot will move as rpms go up or down . now not to through a wrench in the bucket. but steering columb position,and distributor cam position,and lever position will all effect your range of adjustment.
the steering columb tube can be loosend and twisted to adjust movment , also the distributor cam can be advanced or retarded to position the lever where you want it . I have a few guys in my club that want there lever up all the way for crusin and others want it a few noches down. Sorry if I confused anyone.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:11 PM   #24
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

My cars start good at full retard,idle nice a couple of clicks down,run around town halfway down,and run flat out with the lever all the way down.If I pull the lever down halfway at an idle the engine jumps up and down.If I try to pull it all the way down at an idle the engine wants to jump out of the frame rails.I looked at a car that the owner had owned since 1950,when he started it he pulled the lever down all the way.It revved up a little,but ran nice.I didn't think the car had any power,but he said it had been like that since he bought it.I timed it and told him to go for a ride.The first thing he found was he couldn't yank the spark lever down at an idle.The second thing he found was he could run it at 55 without laboring.He came from a time that the A was a 20 year old worn out car that was cheap for a kid to buy and bang around in.He had always set the timing the way his dad showed him in 1950.Turn the engine until the pin drops in,then aim the rotor at the headlight,or the edge of the radiator,whatever it was he used gave him severely retarded timing.He had a Model A tractor,Model A skidder,Model A cordwood saw,Model A powered splitter,he knew how to keep the engines running but only for stationary use.I did put a Brumfield head on on my pickup,that one is a little tricky on the advance.Anything over 1/4 down on the advance and it wants to hammer and buck.And that is flat out on the road.I have monkeyed with it,thinking I'm setting something wrong,but it runs best timed as original.I just can't feed it much advance.It's almost like driving a modern car.Start it,pull the lever down 3 clicks,and leave it there.Idle or highway speeds,it runs fine.It has an NOS B cam,a B dist.cam,and is either .060 or .125 over.I did two engines for my two trucks and can't remember which one got the big bore.My cars have always been very sensitive to the GAV and advance settings.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:26 PM   #25
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

700, if you want to know how to use the spark lever, ride with someone in a Model T sometime and watch them use theirs. The spark lever on a T is as important as the throttle and is used as much. T owners move the spark to retard (ATDC) then move it to about half way for warmup and idle. Once on the road the spark is moved to a point the engine runs best without "hammering" and is adjusted constantly according to road conditions. It is a real eye opener to watch it and even more astounding to have to do it. This will teach a Model A owner lots about how to use the spark correctly and is how Model A owners progressed to that car without killing the engine.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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The Spark Control

"For average driving the spark lever should be carried about half way down the quadrant. ONLY for high speeds should the spark lever be advanced all the way down the quadrant. When the engine is under a heavy load as in climbing steep hills, driving through heavy sand, etc., the spark lever should be retarded sufficiently to prevent a spark knock."

Ford Model "A" Instruction Book.
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:32 AM   #27
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I was taught to bring the lever down a little and listen for the engine to increase in speed. Stop moving it when the engine stops increasing speed. To move it further is hard on the bearings.

For a persons individuals car, the lever setting may very well be 1/2, 3/4, or even all the way down.
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:43 AM   #28
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

And will any of us change our ways of doing it??Naw, most of us never change much of anything, with the exception of our oil & our underwear!
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I run my control half way
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

For slow parades (walking speed) I use the advance --retard to 1/2 for speed control,
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:03 AM   #31
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Dam I learn something again. The fellow I bought the A from told me to pull the lever down to start it and push it up when it starts running so thats the way I have been starting it. Ain't tried to start it with the lever all the way up yet but I will. When I was driving it last week running on fairly flat highway sometimes did not seem like it had much power on some slight hills and I pulled the lever down some probably 9:00 and it ran great. It starts fairly easy did notice sometimes that the engine was trying to kickback but did not keep on the starter. Idles pretty rough with the lever all the way up. I still a learning. It's just hard to learn things after you done reached the top of the hill and now I is a going down.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:26 PM   #32
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Thanks for this discussion, everyone. I haven't had an A for many years, but would like to change that. So please understand I am not the well grounded users you all are.

Nonetheless -- when we bought the late [~5/15-31] Tudor deluxe A in July '53 [it had 87000 on the clock and had been 'rebuilt around 60000 we were told; suspect merely re-ringed] we followed the Ford manual we bought as to timing. Set up the timing per specs. Dist seemed fairly tight without a lot of play, for what it is worth, but we rotated per instructions from someone/somewhere to take up the existing play.

After setting points - and rechecking for wear-in on rub block, we always retarded fully to start. Advanced partially around town - around 1/2 and on road a whisker more. You could feel how the engine was running and you select the only the least advanced point at which it still runs the best, and advance no more. Any more was a mistake and ignition would knock, as ours did.

That was eons ago, but is one guy's clear recollection from age 14-15.

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Old 02-25-2012, 04:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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Dam I learn something again. The fellow I bought the A from told me to pull the lever down to start it and push it up when it starts running so thats the way I have been starting it. Ain't tried to start it with the lever all the way up yet but I will. When I was driving it last week running on fairly flat highway sometimes did not seem like it had much power on some slight hills and I pulled the lever down some probably 9:00 and it ran great. It starts fairly easy did notice sometimes that the engine was trying to kickback but did not keep on the starter. Idles pretty rough with the lever all the way up. I still a learning. It's just hard to learn things after you done reached the top of the hill and now I is a going down.

Your timing is set wrong (too retarded by A LOT). If you can start it fully advanced something is way off. It should idle slow and effortlessly with a chuggy sound fully retarded (up).
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:07 PM   #34
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My understanding is, use less advance when running hi-compression heads.
I am running a Snyder 5.5 head. It is timed so that the points break on the 1st click down on the lever. The sweet spot is about 3 clicks down on the lever. Is this running it with to much advance?
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:14 PM   #35
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I am running a Snyder 5.5 head. It is timed so that the points break on the 1st click down on the lever. The sweet spot is about 3 clicks down on the lever. Is this running it with to much advance?
I doubt it. Just find a country road and set the speed, then move the lever to where it runs the best without knocking. Remember about where the lever is for that speed when driving the same conditions (hills,vs. flatland).
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I have to ask, with a stock "A" head is it even possible to get the engine to knock from too much advance on todays gas?
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:20 PM   #37
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I am running a Snyder 5.5 head. It is timed so that the points break on the 1st click down on the lever. The sweet spot is about 3 clicks down on the lever. Is this running it with to much advance?
My stops are fairly worn, but under 45mph, it likes the lever between 9 to 10 o' clock position. The only time I run it all the way down is over 50 mph.

When slowing down for downshifting around a sharp corner, I'll retard it a bit.

Overkill to some, but I like playing with it.

Note: I don't get knock, but just try to use only enough advance as required.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:24 PM   #38
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I have to ask, with a stock "A" head is it even possible to get the engine to knock from too much advance on todays gas?
For some reason my well worn engine with only 50 lbs. compression knocks much easier than you would think. Maybe it needs to be decarboned.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:31 PM   #39
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Well I just tried it the way ya say no advance and it started the easiest fastest it has ever. Guess I misunderstood the fellow or was not listening to much when he told me how to start it. Moved the lever down to around 8-9 o'clock after it started and it ran great. Now I noticed when I shut it down and turn off the gas it will back fire thru the muffler. Gas will drip out of the carburetor after I turn the gas off. Guess the float level is a little to high. It has died on me several times when I come to a stop.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:04 PM   #40
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I have to ask, with a stock "A" head is it even possible to get the engine to knock from too much advance on todays gas?
From my personal experience, yes.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:24 PM   #41
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Yes an engine with a stock head will knock from too much advance if lugged. Most of the roads were rough dirt trails in the model A days. People had to drive at lower speed, that is why proper use of the spark is mentioned on hills and sand beds, in the owners manual. Lead was added to the gasoline in the early thirties to reduce timing knock. Todays gas has no lead. You don't get the carbon deposits with unleaded gas but you are more likely to get timing knock than we did with the leaded 100 octane that we had in the sixties.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:44 PM   #42
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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Well I just tried it the way ya say no advance and it started the easiest fastest it has ever. Guess I misunderstood the fellow or was not listening to much when he told me how to start it. Moved the lever down to around 8-9 o'clock after it started and it ran great. Now I noticed when I shut it down and turn off the gas it will back fire thru the muffler. Gas will drip out of the carburetor after I turn the gas off. Guess the float level is a little to high. It has died on me several times when I come to a stop.
Well, from the way that you have been using it (i.e.-backward) there will be a period of retraining your brain.
A good thing, IMO, to do until it is second nature to you...take a small card and print a few steps of how to properly start your model A ! Put it on the dash.
Also, when you are about to STOP and shut off your Model A engine...ALWAYS retard (handle up) ...let it idle a bit then shut down power and see if that doesn't help with your 'backfire' problem.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:32 PM   #43
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

As others have said, I've alway operated my car, "up to start, full advance to run." I wonder if I advanced the timing more, if I wouldn't find the car running best with the lever at 9:00 or half-way down, as some others are doing.
It is amazing how many times I've timed my A's trying to get optimum performance out of them.
I have found that if I'm putting along at idle in either first or second gear, the car chugs less with the spark retarded. So when we go out cruising looking at Christmas lights and such I retard the spark and the car runs more evenly. Plus, I just love the sound it makes when the spark is retarded.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:01 AM   #44
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Here is how I set the timing in my cars. Remove the spark plugs so that the engine is easy to turn, this makes the job easier. I first set the points at .022 , I then turn the engine over until I find the timing mark. Forget about where the spark lever is set or when the points open, this only adds confusion and causes most to end up with retarded timing. The important thing is where the rotor tip points. With the timing pin in the correct spot, I loosen the points cam screw and set the points cam so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip is in alignment with the number one plug wire contact in the distributor cap body, with NO clockwise backlash. If you don't have a cam wrench, it may take several tries to get it right, because when you tighten the cam screw the points cam will also try to move in the clock wise direction and when this happens it retards the timing. There will be backlash but when the backlash is in the counter clockwise direction it doesn't effect the timing. With the points and timing set in this manner it will idle with the spark up (retarded) and have that cool chick a lunka sound. when the spark is advanced the idle speed will increase and smooth out. Throttle response should be crisp with the spark fully advanced. More modern cars have vacume or centrifugal advance to prevent timing knock and buck at low speed or under strain. The model A has mechanical advance controlled by the driver and it is an aquired skill, sort of like shifting the crash box transmission. With good roads and faster driving speed that we have now days, not as much attention is needed with the spark lever as it was in the twenties. I don't creep around and lug the engine, that is really worse for the engine, than driving sixty mph and runs the risk of being rear ended. If you are driving on trails or parades you will need to retard the spark as needed to relieve the timing knock and buck. You can feel the sweet spot as you move the lever. There is no advantage in driving with the spark retarded to the point the engine loses power, this practice causes overheating and warped manifolds. It doesn't matter to me how anybody uses their spark. I just can't imagine driving my cars at highway speeds with the spark lever half way up the quadrant.

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Old 02-26-2012, 01:23 AM   #45
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I guess you would have to think about it....if it was just up for start and then full down to drive there would be no notches in between. It would just be a toggle switch. there obviously is a reason for the inbetween adjustments.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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I would think that the notches are to help hold the lever where it is set. Times have changed, gasoline has higher octane, we have better roads without sand beds and automobiles are driven at higher speeds. If you drive the back roads and momentum and speeds of 50-55 mph can't be maintained, more use of the spark will be needed. When I am driving on the open road I am moving right along so as not to be a nuisance or get ran over. If the timing is set right the car will run best with the spark fully advanced at speed. I sometimes drive trails with my strip down model A's and the spark is used more and I can enjoy the retarded chick a lunka sound. When I drive on the main roads I run with full advance. For the most part I crank with the spark retarded and drive the main roads with full advance. This has always worked for me I've still got my first model A and it still has the original babbit I have overhauled it twice in 52 years. When I overhauled it in 71, I removed the bearing shims. When I overhauled it the second time in 2007 I filed the caps for .002 clearance. The original babbit is unbroken and the oil groves are still present I have driven this engine fast since I was a teen ager and I know that my use of the spark has caused NO damage.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:18 AM   #47
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

My suggestion: Folks that don't seem to master it, or don't want to mess with it, Just buy a simple Mallory point type distributor and go. Did it on Minerva, my '30 coupe, and it was like driving a different car. (I know it's not PROPER, in case my "ADMIRER" is reading this!) Bill W.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:22 AM   #48
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I have been breaking in my new Schwalm's motor and yesterday I drive over 60 miles in the rolling hills of Maryland and found that "Sweet Spot" depended on the road conditions and was able to fine tune the timing easily because you can actually feel the motor power curve as you move the lever. Retard up a hill felt like you were loosing power but is important so you do not pound the babbits, downhill retard does seem to assist in slowing the car down, but on level road you can easily get the motor into that Sewwt Spot, I also adjust the GAV vavle and keep it slightly rich durig breakin to keep her cool.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:26 AM   #49
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Here is the Mallory dual point distributor on my daughters 31 coupe. The girls are not really in to the finer points of using the spark. Centrifugal advance will really save on starter armatures. When she was a teenager, she would sometimes forget to retard the spark when cranking. This is also a good idea because her car has a high compression head. ...
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:45 AM   #50
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Purdy, glad you posted that picture. It's a good reminder that you should always remove rings and bracelets when working around electricity. The amps from a car battery can burn the finger off if the ring shorts it to ground.

My friend lost a finger last summer while climbing down the ladder on his cement truck. The ring got caught on something and he slipped down.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:52 AM   #51
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Thanks, Tom. I'll have to warn her. We don't want her scared up.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:26 PM   #52
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I have always started the car full up and then drop a couple of clicks to idle. Retard at stop signs and lights and about 2/3 down for 35-45 mph. Before I installed the HC head I would run it all the way down for higher speeds but it feels better 2/3rds down now.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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Here is how I set the timing in my cars. ...
Thanks, that's sorta what I've come to practice, myself. It's great to know I don't have to worry about damaging my engine by not being more sophisticated about the use of the spark advance.

Sometimes, I like to forget all the (undoubtedly accurate) details and nuances and just enjoy the driving and tinkering.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:15 PM   #54
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

You know so much of enjoying these cars is the subtle nuances of driving them. Yes you have to listen to them, yes you have to pay attention to vibration and odors. But for me it's what makes it all so worth it.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:28 PM   #55
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

I'm reading and it's sinking in. I think good info.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:45 PM   #56
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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I have to ask, with a stock "A" head is it even possible to get the engine to knock from too much advance on todays gas?
ive set and timed the dist as per instructions , and when i start up it is full retarded and at start advance to half way down while running down the road at 35-40 i have moved the advance all the way down and never heard a knock can get the old boy up to 50mph full advance does not seem to make any more diff than half-3/4 advance 42-45mph is the best performance point for the truck on the hwy. i have been wondering though how much diff it makes on the point gap and plug gaps , is it better to run points at 18 or 22 would there be a noticeable difference? also plug gap is 35 what happens if it is 32 or 37 i have been trying to see where the best responsive settings are but can only go by my own subjective observations.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:10 AM   #57
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Mine seems to like the smaller .018 point gap.

With stock head, .035 plug gap worked well, but I set them at .030 for the HC 5.5 head.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:49 AM   #58
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Ok, my take from many As in the past was always like many said, up for start and down for drive. I always thought it worked today because of our fuel quality vs the past.

On another note, has anyone ever been lucky enough or tuned well enough to start the car with the timing lever? I know that a Rolls Royce will do this once warmed up if it's dialed in. Basically you turn on the key in retard, and slowly move the lever to create a spark, next thing you know she's running. Kool as hell to see it done. Anybody? I'm going to try mine once it's up and running for good. Gotta know!!
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #59
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

My 30 roadster will do something like that,but not quite start.When it is warm,and I shut it off,if I try it within 4 or 5 minutes it will chuff.I turn the key on,pull the spark lever down,and it will fire.The problem is that when I advance the lever the piston is not quite to the top yet.The explosion pushes the piston back down,turning the engine backwards a half turn or so.The T's are a different story.There are two that I work on that will start when warm,by turning on the key and pulling the spark lever down.Sometimes I just turn on the key,hear the coil buzz,and it takes off with a roar.There was an old man with a T that lived near me when I was little.He had bought it new,had never had a license,and had taken to driving the car through the woods to get around.My family owned all the land there,the store and gas station.He would come down the hill behind our house,through the brook,between my grandfathers house and ours,and on to the my uncles beer/gas store.Before he got his quart of beer he would set the spark lever,leave the switch on,and go in.When he came out he would give the side of the car a huge kick.The spark lever would drop and the car would light off.That car was so worn out that sometimes when a truck went by it(10 feet away)on the concrete highway the lever would drop on it's own and it would fire off on it's own.He used to do that just to make us kids giggle.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:29 PM   #60
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

Mostly a lot of good advice. It may help to consider what a more modern fully automatic advance distributor does. It has two advance systems. A centrifugal advance that adjusts the timing based on speed and a vacuum advance that adjusts timing based on load. For starting both systems are fully retarded (lever up). As the engine speed increases the timing is advanced by the centrifugal system. As the vacuum increases the vacuum system advances the timing. At speed without heavy load the system is at maximum advance (lever down). The ideal position for full advance varies with timing setting and engine but should be just short of knocking. Loading the engine (accelerating or hill climbing) causes the timing to retard as does reducing speed. The ideal position of the lever would be to match these conditions. A running engine should almost never be at fully retarded as even at steady idle the vacuum advance should be near maximum advance.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:58 PM   #61
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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me too and i have ben driveing them for 70 years
thats the way i do it too, mine doesnt have alot of power in retarded form so i just run full advanced, runs like a sewing machine there
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Old 10-07-2021, 04:53 PM   #62
Billy 1931 Model A
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

My Model A will run one day, next day won't start. I understand that each car's GAV and spark advance lever position will be a bit different. Trying to start with full retard (up position) - no ignition. Fuel delivery and spark at plugs are fine: my ammeter trembles when she cranks. Questions: am I trying to start with TOO much retard? And when cranking, do you add choke at 1st crank or a couple turns later? After 3 minutes of trying, I can smell she's flooded. How much throttle do you open to start?
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Old 10-07-2021, 05:18 PM   #63
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Default Re: Position of the spark lever question

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My Model A will run one day, next day won't start. I understand that each car's GAV and spark advance lever position will be a bit different. Trying to start with full retard (up position) - no ignition. Fuel delivery and spark at plugs are fine: my ammeter trembles when she cranks. Questions: am I trying to start with TOO much retard? And when cranking, do you add choke at 1st crank or a couple turns later? After 3 minutes of trying, I can smell she's flooded. How much throttle do you open to start?



You might want to check/set the base timing. It should be at TDC [ or pretty close].

Then when starting the spark lever is up [ TDC ].

Throttle lever down a few notches

Start cranking the engine

As the engine starts to turn over pull out the choke knob for a second or two [ a couple spins of the engine] and push it back in. It should start. Don't wait for the engine to start before pushing it in.

Once the engine starts pull the spark lever down 2/3 to 3/4 and drive it away.
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