Position of the spark lever question

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Jordan

UP to start, ALL the way down to drive. I've never had a problem with it, and my grandpa drove them this way for 60 years without a problem.

I agree with Jordan and I have mostly driven my model A's this way for 52 years. The only time that I slightly retard the spark is if I am driving very slow as in easing along on trails or on hills if driving slowly. I usually keep the momentum built up and don't need to retard on hills at speed. This is the way that the older guys that drove model A's in the day taught me. My september 29 still has the original babbit and I have run the hell out of this engine with the spark fully advanced for 52 years. I think that most don't know how to set the timing or use the spark. If you are driving slow enough for the car to buck and run ruff, retard the spark untill it smoothes out.

[Don S]

My coupe with a Brumfield 5.9 runs best only 6 clicks advanced. It starts best at 2 clicks,but idles great fully retarded.It took many tests going up long hills to find what works best.Carburation will also be a factor on performance. I get good mileage,so for my coupe the settings must be close to optimal. Good luck ,model A's are the best !

[Popeye31]

Each A has its own sweet spot. and playing with the positions is the only way to find it. move it up till it starts to run rough than move it down till it runs rough the middle of these two rough spots is usually the sweet spot. and like others said this spot will move as rpms go up or down . now not to through a wrench in the bucket. but steering columb position,and distributor cam position,and lever position will all effect your range of adjustment.
the steering columb tube can be loosend and twisted to adjust movment , also the distributor cam can be advanced or retarded to position the lever where you want it . I have a few guys in my club that want there lever up all the way for crusin and others want it a few noches down. Sorry if I confused anyone.

[Keith True]

My cars start good at full retard,idle nice a couple of clicks down,run around town halfway down,and run flat out with the lever all the way down.If I pull the lever down halfway at an idle the engine jumps up and down.If I try to pull it all the way down at an idle the engine wants to jump out of the frame rails.I looked at a car that the owner had owned since 1950,when he started it he pulled the lever down all the way.It revved up a little,but ran nice.I didn't think the car had any power,but he said it had been like that since he bought it.I timed it and told him to go for a ride.The first thing he found was he couldn't yank the spark lever down at an idle.The second thing he found was he could run it at 55 without laboring.He came from a time that the A was a 20 year old worn out car that was cheap for a kid to buy and bang around in.He had always set the timing the way his dad showed him in 1950.Turn the engine until the pin drops in,then aim the rotor at the headlight,or the edge of the radiator,whatever it was he used gave him severely retarded timing.He had a Model A tractor,Model A skidder,Model A cordwood saw,Model A powered splitter,he knew how to keep the engines running but only for stationary use.I did put a Brumfield head on on my pickup,that one is a little tricky on the advance.Anything over 1/4 down on the advance and it wants to hammer and buck.And that is flat out on the road.I have monkeyed with it,thinking I'm setting something wrong,but it runs best timed as original.I just can't feed it much advance.It's almost like driving a modern car.Start it,pull the lever down 3 clicks,and leave it there.Idle or highway speeds,it runs fine.It has an NOS B cam,a B dist.cam,and is either .060 or .125 over.I did two engines for my two trucks and can't remember which one got the big bore.My cars have always been very sensitive to the GAV and advance settings.

[James Rogers]

700, if you want to know how to use the spark lever, ride with someone in a Model T sometime and watch them use theirs. The spark lever on a T is as important as the throttle and is used as much. T owners move the spark to retard (ATDC) then move it to about half way for warmup and idle. Once on the road the spark is moved to a point the engine runs best without "hammering" and is adjusted constantly according to road conditions. It is a real eye opener to watch it and even more astounding to have to do it. This will teach a Model A owner lots about how to use the spark correctly and is how Model A owners progressed to that car without killing the engine.

[HoarseWhisperer]

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The Spark Control

"For average driving the spark lever should be carried about half way down the quadrant. ONLY for high speeds should the spark lever be advanced all the way down the quadrant. When the engine is under a heavy load as in climbing steep hills, driving through heavy sand, etc., the spark lever should be retarded sufficiently to prevent a spark knock."

Ford Model "A" Instruction Book.

[Mike V. Florida]

I was taught to bring the lever down a little and listen for the engine to increase in speed. Stop moving it when the engine stops increasing speed. To move it further is hard on the bearings.

For a persons individuals car, the lever setting may very well be 1/2, 3/4, or even all the way down.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

And will any of us change our ways of doing it??Naw, most of us never change much of anything, with the exception of our oil & our underwear!
Bill W.

[Ray64]

I run my control half way

[Kurt in NJ]

For slow parades (walking speed) I use the advance --retard to 1/2 for speed control,

[lschultz]

Dam I learn something again. The fellow I bought the A from told me to pull the lever down to start it and push it up when it starts running so thats the way I have been starting it. Ain't tried to start it with the lever all the way up yet but I will. When I was driving it last week running on fairly flat highway sometimes did not seem like it had much power on some slight hills and I pulled the lever down some probably 9:00 and it ran great. It starts fairly easy did notice sometimes that the engine was trying to kickback but did not keep on the starter. Idles pretty rough with the lever all the way up. I still a learning. It's just hard to learn things after you done reached the top of the hill and now I is a going down.

[DGNY]

Thanks for this discussion, everyone. I haven't had an A for many years, but would like to change that. So please understand I am not the well grounded users you all are.

Nonetheless -- when we bought the late [~5/15-31] Tudor deluxe A in July '53 [it had 87000 on the clock and had been 'rebuilt around 60000 we were told; suspect merely re-ringed] we followed the Ford manual we bought as to timing. Set up the timing per specs. Dist seemed fairly tight without a lot of play, for what it is worth, but we rotated per instructions from someone/somewhere to take up the existing play.

After setting points - and rechecking for wear-in on rub block, we always retarded fully to start. Advanced partially around town - around 1/2 and on road a whisker more. You could feel how the engine was running and you select the only the least advanced point at which it still runs the best, and advance no more. Any more was a mistake and ignition would knock, as ours did.

That was eons ago, but is one guy's clear recollection from age 14-15.

Regards,

Dyson

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by lschultz

Dam I learn something again. The fellow I bought the A from told me to pull the lever down to start it and push it up when it starts running so thats the way I have been starting it. Ain't tried to start it with the lever all the way up yet but I will. When I was driving it last week running on fairly flat highway sometimes did not seem like it had much power on some slight hills and I pulled the lever down some probably 9:00 and it ran great. It starts fairly easy did notice sometimes that the engine was trying to kickback but did not keep on the starter. Idles pretty rough with the lever all the way up. I still a learning. It's just hard to learn things after you done reached the top of the hill and now I is a going down.

Your timing is set wrong (too retarded by A LOT). If you can start it fully advanced something is way off. It should idle slow and effortlessly with a chuggy sound fully retarded (up).

[Gary/IA]

Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer

My understanding is, use less advance when running hi-compression heads.

I am running a Snyder 5.5 head. It is timed so that the points break on the 1st click down on the lever. The sweet spot is about 3 clicks down on the lever. Is this running it with to much advance?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Gary/IA

I am running a Snyder 5.5 head. It is timed so that the points break on the 1st click down on the lever. The sweet spot is about 3 clicks down on the lever. Is this running it with to much advance?

I doubt it. Just find a country road and set the speed, then move the lever to where it runs the best without knocking. Remember about where the lever is for that speed when driving the same conditions (hills,vs. flatland).

[MrTube]

I have to ask, with a stock "A" head is it even possible to get the engine to knock from too much advance on todays gas?

[HoarseWhisperer]

Originally Posted by Gary/IA

I am running a Snyder 5.5 head. It is timed so that the points break on the 1st click down on the lever. The sweet spot is about 3 clicks down on the lever. Is this running it with to much advance?

My stops are fairly worn, but under 45mph, it likes the lever between 9 to 10 o' clock position. The only time I run it all the way down is over 50 mph.

When slowing down for downshifting around a sharp corner, I'll retard it a bit.

Overkill to some, but I like playing with it.

Note: I don't get knock, but just try to use only enough advance as required.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by MrTube

I have to ask, with a stock "A" head is it even possible to get the engine to knock from too much advance on todays gas?

For some reason my well worn engine with only 50 lbs. compression knocks much easier than you would think. Maybe it needs to be decarboned.

[lschultz]

Well I just tried it the way ya say no advance and it started the easiest fastest it has ever. Guess I misunderstood the fellow or was not listening to much when he told me how to start it. Moved the lever down to around 8-9 o'clock after it started and it ran great. Now I noticed when I shut it down and turn off the gas it will back fire thru the muffler. Gas will drip out of the carburetor after I turn the gas off. Guess the float level is a little to high. It has died on me several times when I come to a stop.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by MrTube

I have to ask, with a stock "A" head is it even possible to get the engine to knock from too much advance on todays gas?

From my personal experience, yes.