Few questions.....New Flathead owner!!!

['35Coup]

Hey All,

My Grandfather passed away this past November and left me his restored 1935 five window coup that he'd been building since the 60's. I have never owned nor driven one of these old Fords so I joined this forum to ask questions and learn as much as I can from all you early Ford pro's. I am a lifelong "car guy" and have worked on cars for most of my life so I have the mechanical ability, just am lacking experience with something this old. Please don't hesitate to send me any and all info and advice you may have, especially if it pertains to specifics about running the car at high elevation as I live just outside of Denver, CO. The Ford has a 59 A-B V8 that, from what I can tell based on some research, is out of a '46. I just got the Ford home this weekend and immediately started checking all fluids, belts ect before I fired it up as it hasn't been run in over 2 years. Once everything checked out I decided to fire it up and run it around the block real quick just to see how she did (no license plates yet). Everything seemed to work great except one thing; when shifting between gears while driving it feels like the gears are grinding (like if you were to try shifting without pushing in the clutch) right away then it will go into gear. I make sure the clutch is all the way pressed down and my foot is all the way off the accelerator but it still grinds at first. Is this normal for these old cars? I've only driven it this one time and now I'm scared to drive it again as I don't want to damage anything. Any and all comments are welcome. I'll be posting many more questions but I'll start with this one! Thanks for the help!

[Binx]

Man, that is really cool and I hope you hang on to it and pass it on to your grandson. Not much of a drivetrain guy on these things, but I guarantee you will be helped here. Welcome!!

Lonnie

[ford1]

to start check the free play in the clutch pedal should be around 1/2 " to 1", sitting that long the clutch might be hanging up on the main shaft set free play and then drive it, if things are sticky working the clutch might help free it up, the trans is a syncro so it shouldnt do that, also make sure you have the right weight trans oil, 90 w and its full up,

[Mike in AZ]

Welcome to the 'Barn....i'm sorry to hear of your grandfather's passing, but now you can keep his memory alive while driving the coupe.....could be just stiff shifting 'til it's been driven for a while....original transmission??....and of course, do you have pics??...we love pics here....lol....enjoy and ask any and all questions you have....Mike

[Old Henry]

I'm assuming that since you have a '46 engine you might also have the '46 transmission which is the same as the one in my '47. I have had it rebuilt twice and I still have to wait just the right amount of time between gears shifting up (from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd) to keep them from "grinding." Then, there is no shifting down from 3rd to 2nd without "double clutching" and no way to get into 1st except at dead stop. Even then, before shifting into 1st from dead stop I briefly shift into second keeping the clutch down to stop the gears from spinning so that they won't grind going into first.

If you do have the '46 transmission, keep in mind that when going into 2nd or 3rd the gears don't actually mesh. It's the syncro mechanism that's "meshing." What is "grinding" is that mechanism, not actual gears. However, going into 1st and reverse, which, mind you, can only be done at full dead stop, the grinding is actually the gears trying to mesh. (No syncro in those gears.) That's why I usually slip it into 2nd for an instant leaving the clutch in to stop the gears so they'll mesh.

Practice shifting into 2nd and 3rd at different rates until you find the right speed that lets the gears slow down just enough but not too much for the syncro to mesh.

Just in case you're not sure what "double clutching" is I'll explain.
When shifting down from 3rd to 2nd the gears need to be "sped up" in order to mesh smoothly. To do that you push in the clutch, put the transmission in neutral, let up on the clutch, and rev the engine a bit to what you think is the right speed for the syncro to mesh, then push in the clutch and slip it into 2nd quickly while the engine is still revved. With practice you'll get the feel of what's just the right "revving" to do the trick. Likewise, if you've been coasting in neutral a while going down hill and are ready to put it into 3rd you'll need to do the same thing - rev the engine while in neutral with the clutch out to the speed you think will be right when you put it into third, push the clutch down, and slip it into 3rd quickly while the engine is still revved.

Hope this helps

[Old Henry]

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As to running the car at high altitude, I get more power out of my 59A-B engine at my altitude in Utah, that's almost as high as yours, by advancing the timing as far as I can as well as the vacuum advance on the distributor. Never get a ping until I get below 3,000 feet then have to retard the vacuum advance a little.

You can also check the jets in your carburetor. If you're running a Holley 94 (Ford 59) carburetor and the car has been near sea level with the stock 50-51 jets you could change them to 49's at your altitude and save a little gas.

[41 Fords ohio]

I completely agree with Old Henry. Remember it's not a Toyota,it'll take some getting used to. Take your time, no speed shifting. If it's a stock trans you can lock it up. When I was a younger and dumber I spent many hours trying to unlock my trans because I lost my mind and yanked it into gear. Welcome to the Ford Barn. Good luck with the 35 they're beautiful cars.

[my4dv8]

All gears should should shift up steadily on their own (no speed shifts) down 3 to 2 is normal . 2 to 1 needs to be stopped or double de clutched as described. Clutch in shift to neutral from 2nd, clutch out, clutch in shift to 1st. all kind of positive but gentle.

[Mr 42]

Old Henry is right.
And all old gearboxes are different, and takes sometime to figure out how to handle them, Without extra noice.

Don't rev to much before you shift, start from low revs and check when it start making noices. You have the torque for it

[JM 35 Sedan]

Your grandfather must have thought highly of you to pass his beloved early Ford V8 on to you...so I'm sure you want to do him proud by taking good care of his 'baby'. Many of these old EFV8's got a 59 series engine transplant back in the day. When the original 21 stud, 221 CI, 85 hp engine gave up the ghost it was so easy to go to a local junkyard and pick up the then later model FH V8 and drop it right in. It was much easier and less costly back then to just swap in a 59 engine and keep on keepin' on. Heck, that's exactly what I did in 1959 after I pleaded with My Dad to buy me this '35 3W coupe that a local junkyard had just hauled in the yard with freeze cracked 21 stud original engine. I had that coupe on the road in 1960 right after I turned 16. I owned that car right up to 1976. It was taking up space in my then one car garage and being a family man with two young children, I did not have the time nor the money to work on it...so like a big dummy I sold it and used the money for other necessities. I doubt your granddad replaced the original floor shift transmission with a '46 column shift transmission because back in the day it was much cooler to have 3 on the floor then 3 on the tree, but he may have put the better gears from a '46 box into his stock '35 box and topped it off with a '39 shifter. Or he may have just married that 59 to the original stock '35 transmission which will normally give you some 'raking' of gears sound when shifting between second and third. All of my '35's did this occasionally and the one's I own today also do that. Don't worry about it, just drive it and learn to properly double clutch when shifting from 2nd to 3rd and from 3rd back to 2nd. The more you work on and drive that '35 the more of an addicted V8'er you will become. Good luck, ask lots of questions here and welcome to the Ford Barn!! You are going to like what you can learn here.

[Mart]

Congrats, Your grampops left you a very desirable car. Conserve it as best you can and it will always be a reminder of him and his benevolence.

Mart.

[Tom Morookian]

Sitting for "over 2 years" worries me.

1st- Stale gas can be a killer. Gums up the carb and could make a gooey mess in the tank.

Drain the tank completely and see how much sludge drops out. If it's alot, flush it with several gallons of straight ethanol.

2nd- check that the wheel cylinders are not leaking (assuming you have juice brakes), if not, the mechanicals hardly ever leak (YUK<YUK). If they are jucie brakes, suck out the fluid from the master and flush each wheel thru the bleeder with fresh fluid.

Certainly change the oil. Maybe twice, once for an hour or so on 5/30 to flush it then reload with real oil.

A radiator flush and refill never hurts.

[Planojc]

Locate a Early Ford V8 Club in your area. They are always willing to help.

[jerry grayson]

Originally Posted by Planojc

Locate a Early Ford V8 Club in your area. They are always willing to help.

Tom Webb, President Hi-Country EFV8 Club. P O Box 3137 Centennial CO 80122. 303 789 3956
He will put you in touch with someone that can help you.
Good luck with a very nice car!!

[41LjH]

Shifting the old three speed is a zen thing. A friend bought a 40 pickup and the first time I rode with him I thought he was going to tear the transmission out. A few weeks later he was shifting smooth as silk. The trans didn't change he did. So take your time and shift it easy. It will scrape till you find the sweet spot.
How about some pictures??

[Mike in AZ]

heck, Rumbleseat is up in Denver, isn't he??....probably a bunch of flathead guys up there...have fun.....Mike

[Ol' Ron]

Ton has the right idea, you might want to put the front bumper up against a concret wakk and give the clutch a little cleaning, get rid of any rust that might have formed.

[VeryTangled]

Hi 35Coupe! I'm also a newbie at driving these old Fords. I'm on year 2 and still am not as good as I'd like at being gentle on the gearbox. My best suggestion is to slow down the shifts. When compared to a modern manual transmission you really have to go slowly. My modern manual is a quick dab on the clutch and a yank out of, and into the next gear. The Ford is #1 clutch & out of gear, #2 pause, #3 into gear.

I second the thought that you've got your hands on a very desirable car. Also second the suggestion that you get involved with the local regional group of the Early Ford V8 Club of America. You'll find that there are many generous and knowledgable V8'ers.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

[Shadetree]

35Coup,
A hearty welcome to the forum. That's quite an inheritance and I am sure your grandfather made a wise decision!

Sounds like the clutch is not releasing fully if it rakes going in first. Could be just a minor adjustment. Learn your new car, shift gears a little slower. Take it to car shows and you will meet a lot of nice people. Show off the flathead engine and watch the old-timers grin when they see it. Get used to hearing “I used to have one jist like it”...

Shadetree

[59ab]

Welcome to the Barn!

['35Coup]

Wow guys, thanks for all the great responses!!! I will try slowing the shifts down and keep feeling for that "sweet spot". I'm sure this is only the beginning of the issues I will have to work through in learning the in's and out's of these old Fords. Let me ask you this, the car has a single Stromberg 97 carb on it. Any general recommendations for these carbs? Remember I'm in Denver so I'm doing research now trying to decide exactly what I want to do as far as adjusting for the elevation (up to this point the car has spent all it's known life in the Mid-West). Any and all comments welcome! I'll be posting some pics soon once I wash the muck from trailering it back here off!

[Joe AZ]

Welcome to the Barn........you'll find that you can get just about any answer to any flathead question you might have.
Regarding the Stromberg 97, you'll probably find you're running rich in Denver, if it's spent it's life in the Midwest.
Max Musgrove, known on here as "Uncle Max" is the "go to" person for Stromberg 97's IMO.
He'll set you up with the right jets, etc. for your altitude.
Joe

['35Coup]

Wonderful, I will reach out to "Uncle Max" then. Once again showing my ignorance, with these old flatheads does eveyone use regular unleaded gas with a lead additive or is there something else out there that I'm not aware of?

['35Coup]

Here's the first pic of the '35. Many more to come!

[Brendan]

nice car!

[Old Henry]

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Originally Posted by '35Coup

with these old flatheads does eveyone use regular unleaded gas with a lead additive or is there something else out there that I'm not aware of?

I use the lowest octane gas I can find (read here for why http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating) and CD2 lead substitute that's extremely cheap compared to anything else. It's not made any more but still available on ebay here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CD-2-Lead-Su...9f18e8&vxp=mtr

[B-O-B]

Welcome to the barn 35 coup.
You might want to run some MMO & blue (marine grade sta-bil) thru your fuel once you get all cleaned out. I use it regularly. You may also want to put some MMO(marvel mystery oil) in the crankcase to help lube up the innards. Just follow the directions on the label. The reason I say blue sta-bil over/instead of red is because I think it is cheaper as you don't need as much. I can but a qt @ wally world for under $20.00 & they also carry the MMO in gallon jugs. Being that the engine hasn't run for a couple of years you may want to drizzle some MMO down the carb with the engine running to kinda give the valves a little lubrication. Have fun & drive the daylights out of it. Take lots of pics for us please!.

['35Coup]

I've heard many guys say that they use MMO in the fuel as a substitute for leaded gas, would you agree? How much MMO to gas do you use?

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by '35Coup

How much MMO to gas do you use?

The manuafacturer recommneds 4 oz. for 10 gallons of gasoline and one of the five quarts of oil at oil change here: http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mmo/

At $76.00 for a 5 gallon jug that works out to be about 4 1/2 cents per gallon of gas.

[felix37]

Welcome to the Barn!! That is an awesome car your grandfather left you, drive it often!

['35Coup]

Okay, with the nice weather we've been having out here in CO I've finally been able to put some good miles on the coupe once I changed the oil, drained out all the old gas and gave the '35 its first wash since its been home. Now that I'm warming up to the cars quirks and figuring it all out, I have a few more questions. The motor (and trans as far as I know) are '46 vintage. A few of you have said that with these tranny's you cannot shift back into first from second until the car is at a full stop......correct? Just want to make sure as I've been driving at really low speeds in 2nd. Haven't killed it out yet but it sure takes a while to rev back up after slowing down for a corner, as would be expected. Another queston, where exactly do you put in the trans fluid (59ab motor)? Thanks guys!!

[Brendan]

you can get it into first gear but you cant be moving that fast and you have to double clutch. if you don't know how to do it you can learn. but be cairful when you do it . i can do it with out thinking about it it will take practice.

[Old Henry]

On rare occassion, if I'm real lucky, I can get it into 1st without a full dead stop. Nice thing is these flatheads have a lot of torque at low RPM's so they can "lug" pretty good,

The transmission oil is checked and added in a square headed plug about half way up the passenger side of the transmission. If the car hasn't been driven for over a year it would be well to change it. 90 weight is the corrrect oil for it. Fill it to that hole.

[1949FORD]

Originally Posted by '35Coup

Wonderful, I will reach out to "Uncle Max" then. Once again showing my ignorance, with these old flatheads does eveyone use regular unleaded gas with a lead additive or is there something else out there that I'm not aware of?

I run normal unleaded gas in mine and runs fine. and welcome to the barn dude!

[B-O-B]

MMO Just follow the directions on the label.
Tranny oil . There should be a square headed bolt/plug or one with a 1/2" (think socket ratchet) hole in the passenger side & on the bottom . The rear end also has like fittings for draining & filling . You can check the oil level(at least I do) by inserting your pinky/little finger,just so you can bend the first joint a bit, In the hole(Careful to not use too much force as not to get it stuck) & oil level should be 1/2" below the hole in the side.

[bmwillia]

Welcome! Nice car!

[Charlie Stephens]

I am not sure you know that the early transmissions did not have (like modern cars) syncros when going from second back to first. Is this your problem, if so learn to double clutch.

Charlie Stephens

[Karl Wolf]

To get my car to first gear, at any speed, I run the engine (clutch out) at the rpm it would go if it were in that gear, hold that RPM while I step on the clutch... It goes in...

Works well coasting up to a stop sign, can put it in first at 25 mph neat, too...
Note that I learned this when transmissions were about $25... On my parents car...
Karl

[sturgis 39]

I put some chain saw two stroke oil in my gas tank once and while. The floor shift should be on the floor if it is a 36 transmission. If it is a 46 transmission and the shift lever is on the floor than it would have a conversion shift kit. I did not see pictures that you mentioned. They need to be kind of small to post on this site. I set my camera on the second smallest setting and load one picture at a time. Does it have mechanical or hydraulic brakes?

['35Coup]

It has the 3 speed on the floor.....maybe a earlier trans than '46?? Hydraulic brakes as well.

[Fe26]

Originally Posted by 41LjH

Shifting the old three speed is a zen thing.

How about some pictures??

X2 on the zen thing

[rgtharley]

Glad to have another 35 back on the road. The Barn is the place to be, and the place to learn all about your new inheritance. Congratulations, and welcome from yet another 35 Ford owner! I actually have two, but my convertible sedan may not see the light of day for a few more years, while my Tudor Touring car just came back to life last Saturday, after sitting for 22 years!