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Old 08-20-2019, 04:51 PM   #21
Andy
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

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Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Andy, spring shops have the tools to make the eyes, like a mandrel. I have had a number of them made. Piece of cake if the shop knows what it is doing.
I have had them made as well. The problem I was worried about was the scarf at the end of the eye where it wraps around to form a complete eye. I guess they could bend that flat and then get it to reform in the other direction.
Tricky
I hope the OP's spring is actually fine
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:58 PM   #22
JSeery
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

The end of the spring material is beveled before it is rolled into shape. It is a very nice tight fit, most of the guys are good at what they do. I have never watched the actual heating and bending process, so not sure what type of equipment they use. But, I have always been happy with the results and the price. The last 33 Ford front main spring I had made took less than 24 hrs and cost $25.

Just looked up and watched a video of how the eyes are rolled. It is a fairly quick procedure, interesting. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...8&&FORM=VRDGAR

The eye forming parts is between 1:50 and 2:10.

Last edited by JSeery; 08-20-2019 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

There was an article about this situation a couple of years back in one of the hot rod magazines at the time. The easiest way I can think of explaining it is that the ends of the leaves are not horizontal. They come down from the center and have a very distinct angle from horizontal at the end. The unmodified spring, at it's free state, has the eyes at the bottom and, due to the angle, they are a little bit inboard of the ends of the "straight" portion of the spring. If the spring is reformed so that the eyes are at the top, they will now be a little bit outboard of the "straight" portion of the leaf. If the eyes are 3/4" ID and the leaf is 1/4" thick and the angle of the "straight" portion of the leaf is 30 from horizontal, the eye could each be 1/2" outboard of where it was before the spring was reformed. If this makes sense to you could you explain it to me???
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

Randolf, Nice chatting with you today. I'd say first thing is contact the spring shop and find out what exactly they did. If they cut the eye off and welded it back on, DO NOT USE IT! If they cut the eyes off and re-rolled new ones the spring is going to be way to short. They should have heated the spring in a forge, flipped it with a press method & re-tempered it. The stock rear '32-'34 spring is curved & the spring eyes are not square. The rear axle spring hangers are also angled to match the spring. If they do not match then the spring shop did something incorrectly. Hope some of this helps. Talk to you soon.

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Old 08-20-2019, 08:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

Wow, so much Info and help,
thanks everybody👍
Riley: thats exactly what iam going to do, find out what exactly the did!!
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:43 AM   #26
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I always thought that spring eyes were reversed by carefully re-arcing the main leaf in the opposite direction without reforming the spring eyes. Like this:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...g-eyes.225377/
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

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I always thought that spring eyes were reversed by carefully re-arcing the main leaf in the opposite direction without reforming the spring eyes. Like this:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...g-eyes.225377/
Fordy, that link was already posted in this thread (#16), not that posting it again hurts anything, lot of interesting information. There is a difference between what a spring shop does and what you do in your garage. But I have to confess, I have never watched the actual work being performed in the shops! And, I have never had an existing spring reversed!! I just have them make new main spring to my dimensions. Cheap, quick and new. The last one I had made was for a 33 front axle and cost around $25. That was around 4 years ago. One thing that might impact cost is the heat (fuel) involved. I always waited until they had a batch to run so the fuel cost was spread across a number of jobs. They run them often enough that it was normally only a 24 hr thing, versus while you wait.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:33 AM   #28
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

Oops! I should have read all the previous posts. Thanks.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

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Oops! I should have read all the previous posts. Thanks.
It's really an interesting thread and the first reference was somewhat buried in the post, so might be good it was reposted for anyone that is interested.
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Old 08-21-2019, 02:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I made a little bench top press & did mine. Used my porta-power
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I spoke to the spring shop today and i have to say they did well, they tried their best, no welds, no recoiling, just flipping the main leaf over with heating and bench press and keeping the eye as is. They are the best in the area and in the trade for a long time. Quite upset about my questions, giving the impression to the world theres a bunch of backward honks that have just discovered the wheel.


That never was my intention, the issues are there and it just shows, the devil is in the detail and experience, experience. A tradition in the US, a novum for South Africa. If i would have known, what i know now from this thread, l would have given better instructions or maybe have decided completely different on where to have it done, if at all.


Still today people are begging me not to do this, i mean dropped axle and reverse eye spring and to return from the dark side ... but its in my mind..grinning
Now its like " we told you"!



Anyhow, the spring hangers on the rear axle are untampered with and have the correct angle, the rear springeye hooks in to the shackle bolt on one side and is 5-7mm short to the other side. Due to the angle the spring can only fit this one way. Of course there could be many reasons, maybe thats within a tolerable margin, one could discuss this endlessly.


I asked my builder to dissassemble the pack and try to hook the main leave in. He said that was a lot more difficult in theory than in practice.

We asked for a reheating of the one eye to give it just that more length but they adamantly refused, because of the fatigue and brittleness it will cause with possible fracture. There are safety issues and worries - understandable, its not like in the US and i have to accept that... and it made me think!!


I have a rumble seat, so there is additional load in the back and its questionable if the 80 year old stock spring with reversed eye could handle that additional load. Maybe its better that way and i should think more about safety than anything else.
The idea of a traditional build using only original parts is naive when you dont have the knowhow or only a book to go by, unless you have a few Vern Tardels in your neighbourhood, and original parts readily available.

The front spring actually fits, but is very close to the dog-bone shock link on one side -
will opt for bolt on Eaton or Posies reverse eye springs, also for safety reasons.
Thanks all for the help and information.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

Thanks for the update.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:13 PM   #33
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

Never weld a spring or heat bend... on any spring metal. Yikes!!! (maybe when cutting a coil off a later 50s front end, big coil springs)


They might have gave it a bit more arch when reversing it making it shorter some and also adding height. You could have them Flatten it a bit since you are doing this to lower the car.


There was a how-too thread on the HAMB many moons ago about reversing a spring. First thing you did was use some chalk on the garage floor and outline the arch of the main spring... oops I see it's posted above. Also what Pete said.


Installing a reverse eye is more funner too

.

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Old 08-22-2019, 06:35 AM   #34
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

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[I]
Installing a reverse eye is more funner too.
I just made up a spreader for reversed eye springs, mainly for an 'A' rear but I don't know how it would work for a spring not centered (front and back) over the axle.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266539
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:03 AM   #35
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I think your spring is fine. I have reversed several 32-34 front and rear springs for my cars. I do all mine cold as mentioned above. Lay the spring on the floor, mark the arc of the spring, then mark the spring in 2" increments and run it through my press, pressing on the marks. Keep running it through until the arc is the same, but the eyes are reversed. Sometimes I'll take a little arc out of it if I want it a bit lower. Usually takes about an hour, but I creep up on it.
In theory, the spring gets longer when you reverse it. The eves obviously originally point down & in, when you reverse the eyes they point up & out. In actually use, it's not an issue. What makes it seem shorter though, is the second leaf. You HAVE to shorten it about 1/2" to 3/4" because it will hit the now reversed eyes. Think about it, with the eyes in the original position, the second leaf ends right above the eye, and moves out a little as the spring compresses. Now that the eye is reversed, it's in the path of the second leaf. If it clears the leaf at all, it will bind against the eye when compressed. The solution, trim each end of the spring.
Also, I install all my reversed eye springs unassembled, and I think that's the way most do it. Install the main leaf & shackles. You can easily bow the single main leaf by hand to install it. Then start stacking your leafs using a longer center bolt to line them up, and c-clamp each leaf in place as you go. When you get them all on, carefully tighten the long center bolt and then cut off the excess bolt. That's it.
So...The spring looks fine to me. The eyes of the spring should be square to the leaf, and yours are. Disassemble the spring. Shorten second leaf to clear reversed eyes. Install main leaf in car and assemble spring pack using longer bolt & c clamps. It may sound daunting, and apparently it sounds daunting to your builder, but this is quite simple really. And also standard stuff that has to be done to get the low stance that you want.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:25 AM   #36
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

Also, after reading that the rear spring fits in the shackle correctly but is too short to reach the other one....remember that these style springs have to be spread to install them, even a stock spring. That's why spreader bars were made for these springs. They don't work on reversed eye.springa though, so the springs have to be disassembled and the main leaf installed first as I described above. This is really basic early Ford suspension hot rodding, and has been done this way for years. Maybe he isnt.familiar with
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:35 AM   #37
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I think A lot of effort to gain a inch or so ,you can remove a leave or two to get the same drop then at some point the suspension will bottom out any way, maybe longer shackles on the back but that comes with its own side affects .a dropped axle will drop it and most likely retain the correct function of the suspension, several ways of using a spreader bar on a reversed eye spring have been posted here in the past ,
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:13 AM   #38
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I made this spring spreader for 40 springs but found I could use it on my 32 reversed eye rear spring using simply fabricated brackets.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221679

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Old 08-25-2019, 11:14 AM   #39
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I have had springs reversed at a sheet metal shop by rearching in a large roller.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:20 AM   #40
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Default Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford

I installed the springs by putting the car on stands and jacking the ends of the springs up intil I could install the other shackle. Start with one shackle installed and held level. You are not lifting the whole weight of the car as the shackles are level. The spring is bolted down so it can't go anywhere.
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