'34 Cooling problem

[Brewsterbuff]

My 1934 Brewster Town Car w/1934 Ford chassis & engine ran great, never overheated, but had a constant problem with leaky water pumps. Had my original pumps rebuilt by Haney and put them on in 2013 before going to Pebble Beach (sure didn't want trouble on the tour). Car pushed water out big time, ?? overheating, maybe just pushing water out at the cap until not enough left??? We figure we added 15 gal of water in the 80 mile tour. About every 8 minutes. Got home and took the radiator to repair shop, great no problems there. Put it back on, still pushing water. Took it back off, pulled the engine, flushed out the block with a power washer, had the aluminum heads repaired and surfaced, new gaskets, the works. Car is all original so didn't want to go through a total clean up and engine rebuild. Finally put it back together, runs great but still pushes water out the cap and overflow. It appears that the pumps are pushing too much water and it builds up pressure in the top tank

I think the old flathead race guys used to put flat washers or thermostats in the upper water hoses to restrict the flow? I have several old pumps. Most have different impeller design that Haney's four blade ones. Some have only 2 blades, some have three, some have a big hub with a spring design in the middle and very small blades (I have 2 NORS like this, some have four like his.

ANY SUGGESTIONS? Registered to take it to the Keeneland Concours in Lexington, KY but need it to be better than this and tired of not having anything fix it! Don (BrewsterBuff) Hope somebody can make me .

[OhioRick]

Sounds like your radiator cap needs replaced or maybe just change to a better gasket on the original cap.
I am running skips pumps and had the same issue at high speeds on my 34 pickup.
I repaired the problem by replacing the cap gasket and installing a pressure relief valve on my overflow tube. The relief valve can not be higher than 4 pounds. Skip sells a 4 pound valve.
Instead of waiting to contact him, I tried a 2lb brake pressure relief valve.
Worked perfectly. Never did use a four pound valve.

[David J]

Normally the pushing water out is caused by a partially plugged radiator or head gasket .

Simple fact if water is coming into the top tank faster than it is going down through the core you have this issue .

Might try stock impellers .

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. Don, you don't say if you're running with thermostats. That may be part of the situation. Whichever way you have, try the other way maybe?

Skip Haney pumps are a higher GPM flow than stock.

[donald1950]

have you talked to Skip Haney about the problem?

[Brewsterbuff]

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I have not talked to Skip. Just determined that it almost has to be the pumps. I have not been running with thermostats. I pulled 2 from my parts department today and tested them for temp and to make sure they worked. Looks like they are 160 degrees. I also pulled out 2 NORS pumps with shorter blades. May try them. Trouble is, I had Skip rebuild the original pumps that are correct for the car. Going for unrestored/original is a bit of a challenge. I will talk to Skip and see if he has some suggestions.

[lotsagas4u]

Been there, done that, ordered a new radiator from Brassworks a few weeks ago. It will have dummy cap on top, 4 lb pressure cap/neck under the hood.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by lotsagas4u

Been there, done that, ordered a new radiator from Brassworks a few weeks ago. It will have dummy cap on top, 4 lb pressure cap/neck under the hood.

It can have but they will build them any way you want, mine are stock style with the normal cap location. I would try the thermostats but something higher than 160, I would run something more in the 180 range. Any reason for the no and/or low temp thermostats? You didn't post anything about an overheat condition.

[1931 flamingo]

Are you running the relief valve on the overflow tube???
Paul in CT

[Brewsterbuff]

No overflow relief valve, yet. Today I will try the pair of NORS pumps with shorter blades. New is not always better! If that doesn't work, will try the relief valve. The way this car is built it is almost impossible to get to the overflow tube. May have to take the fender and shields off. Hope there is a better way. Everything done decreases in the "unrestored" status. Thanks to all.

[Kurt in NJ]

When the coolant is drained look in the top of the radiator and see how many tubes are clogged---the radiator on my 36 50% of the ones I could see were clogged

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Brewsterbuff

No overflow relief valve, yet. Today I will try the pair of NORS pumps with shorter blades. New is not always better! If that doesn't work, will try the relief valve. The way this car is built it is almost impossible to get to the overflow tube. May have to take the fender and shields off. Hope there is a better way. Everything done decreases in the "unrestored" status. Thanks to all.

You should have called Skip as soon as you noticed the problem. The
problem is there are 144 tubes in the radiator which are over 24"s
long. The restriction of the tubes don't allow enough water to flow
and as a result the excess water backs out the over flow. This also
occurs with stock pumps but not as bad. Even new caps do not seal
good, the cap needs a rubber gasket. The red rubber about 3/16"
thick from the hardware store works good. You need the 3 lb valve
from Skip. Run the other end of the valve into a small plastic
recovery bottle. Fill the radiator up almost to the top. The small
amount of expansion will be taken up in the 4 large radiator hoses.
As the engine cools and the temperature drops through 155 there
is a vacuum in the engine, this sucks the on engine with a pressure
cap or on ones without Skips valve. His valve is a one way valve
and water can't return through it. You could try a hose right from
the over flow tube with out the valve into a recovery bottle. This has
worked on some cars. This was an inherent Ford problem and in the
40's they went to a 4 lb cap, not to raise the boiling point but to keep
all the water in the system. On my cars with Skips 3 lb valve the
engines run at 178 to 182 all the time with Bob Shewman's full flow
thermostats, the water stays full up near the cap and very seldom
add coolant for a year or more. Any attempt to slow the flow will
result in elevated coolant temperatures. The coolant needs to be
forced through the radiator. G.M.

[Kube]

Ya know, I had a VERY similar issue with a 34 coupe. I KNOW the engine was properly rebuilt and the radiator PROPERLY cleaned. New Haney pumps, etc. The darn thing still pushed fluid out the overflow. Finally, in a "hail Mary" I removed the stock thermostats. NO more issues whatsoever. I am still bewildered as to why they made the difference, but they did. The car can now be driven anywhere - no over heating and no over flowing.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

When the coolant is drained look in the top of the radiator and see how many tubes are clogged---the radiator on my 36 50% of the ones I could see were clogged

In the original post he says he took the radiator out and had it checked out by a radiator shop.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Kube

Ya know, I had a VERY similar issue with a 34 coupe. I KNOW the engine was properly rebuilt and the radiator PROPERLY cleaned. New Haney pumps, etc. The darn thing still pushed fluid out the overflow. Finally, in a "hail Mary" I removed the stock thermostats. NO more issues whatsoever. I am still bewildered as to why they made the difference, but they did. The car can now be driven anywhere - no over heating and no over flowing.

That is a little strange, you would think removing the thermostats would increase the flow!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by JSeery

That is a little strange, you would think removing the thermostats would increase the flow!

I agree 100% and that is precisely why I had not removed them earlier when attempting to sort this issue out. I was surprised but indeed quite pleased that not only was the fix easy but well, it fixed the issue

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Kube

Ya know, I had a VERY similar issue with a 34 coupe. I KNOW the engine was properly rebuilt and the radiator PROPERLY cleaned. New Haney pumps, etc. The darn thing still pushed fluid out the overflow. Finally, in a "hail Mary" I removed the stock thermostats. NO more issues whatsoever. I am still bewildered as to why they made the difference, but they did. The car can now be driven anywhere - no over heating and no over flowing.

Your problem and the solution provides proof the flow was restricted by
the flow opening size of the stats. Removing the restriction solved the
problem. If the stats worked and I believe you tested them in hot water
then the hole in the stats when open was to small which is the problem
with most modern stats. G.M.

[JSeery]

How about going a little deeper with that explanation GM. It would seem (as a thought exercise) that increasing the flow into the top of the radiator would increase the amount out the overflow and that restricting the flow into the radiator would decrease the amount out the overflow. In this case removing them did seem to correct the problem, but it is not obvious why, at least not to me.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Your problem and the solution provides proof the flow was restricted by
the flow opening size of the stats. Removing the restriction solved the
problem. If the stats worked and I believe you tested them in hot water
then the hole in the stats when open was to small which is the problem
with most modern stats. G.M.

George, I agree that the stats were the problem - that became obvious when they were removed and all issues disappeared. I had NOS (Ford) stats in there that were of course tested.
It still befuddles me as to why this was causing an overflow problem. regardless, I was thrilled that the cure was easy, once I had actually figured it out

[Brewsterbuff]

PROBLEM SOLVED! I called skip and he agreed that it was a push problem. Today I cut a new rubber gasket for the original cap and installed the NORS water pumps. Don't know how long I had them but the price on the box said 2 for $15.00. I also ordered a pressure relief valve from Skip but decided to try this first. Took a nice long ride with hills. No spray on the inside of the hood or on the fenders and no apparent water lose. Ready for a longer run when the weather warms up. It was a good week, new king pins and bushings in the '50 Pickup, Brewster back on the road, and a good tune up on the '62 Vette. Nothing to do next week but ride. Thanks to everybody for your suggestions. Don