Snyder’s 6:1 head

[Killerbee]

Is anyone running a Snyder’s 6:1 head? I recently put one on my 30A and have had nothing but problems. I’m on my 3rd head gasket and the car runs rough as hell. I’m not new at putting head gaskets on and never has this many issues.I’ve warmed up cooled down and retorqued 3 times before driving. My timing is set correctly and I even retarted the timing a little to avoid pre ignition. It idles fine revs fine but when I drive it feels like bricks in a drier. The engine is healthy and never had any issues with the stock head. I one step away from putting the OEM head back on. I really hope I didn’t hurt my engine with this head.

[old31]

Before you installed it did you have it checked for being straight? You should.

I am running the same head. The machine shop said it was far from straight and the areas under the nuts had to be machined. Others have said that it should be machined.

With this head it is definitely needs more playing around with the advance lever. On hills it really needs to be retarded.

With this head you can not use the FSI Zipper distributor.

I love the head and it makes a heck of a difference in power over the original 4.2.

[Killerbee]

I did run a level across it and the block didn’t see anything out of the ordinary but that’s with the naked eye. You shouldn’t have to machine a new head flat. I was going to go with the 5.5.1 but for the same price I went with the 6:1 now I’m regretting it. Snyder’s will be getting a call again Monday.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Killerbee

I did run a level across it and the block didn’t see anything out of the ordinary but that’s with the naked eye. You shouldn’t have to machine a new head flat. I was going to go with the 5.5.1 but for the same price I went with the 6:1 now I’m regretting it. Snyder’s will be getting a call again Monday.

A basic rule is to never assume anything. Measure it! After the first gasket blew your troubleshooting should have included a trip to a machine shop to have the head checked with a machinist's straight edge. A carpenter's level won't cut it!
How about the block surface? Have you verified that it is true? Again, you can't just assume.

[zzlegend]

Put a 6.1 head from Snyders on my car in my avatar. Runs great and never had a problem. I am running a "B" distributor now, but never had a problem with the stock advance and retard arm. I know you said the timing was right, but i would double check. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

[Killerbee]

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Timing set with Nu-Rex wrench never had any issues with stock head.

[Fordfan29]

I installed one of these 6:1 heads a couple years ago. I cleaned the block surface of all old gasket material then placed the head on the bare block. The head was warped about 0.013"! They offered to send me a new head (probably also warped) after I paid return shipping and waited another three weeks. I suggested machining it locally and they pay the bill. They agreed and everything was installed. The machine shop verified my crude measurements. That "premium" recommended head gasket with the silicone failed shortly. Replacing with a copper gasket solved the problem. I have to also play with spark advance on heavy pulls to keep the spark knock from happening. I read somewhere about the need to retard timing a bit when adding compression and I am presently timed like a stock engine. I like the power and the mileage and I'm sure the old original head would be a pain to live with now.

[aermotor]

Is there any external markings to identify a 6 : 1 head?

John

[Killerbee]

No the chamber size is 152cc noticeably shallower than a stock head and not heart shaped like the 5.5.

[1929]

I installed the 6-1 head 4 years ago, no issues, the rebuilder told me to use the head gasket brand called (Best) and use Permatex Hi tack.

[Killerbee]

Well it sounds like some are good and some are bad from what I’m reading in posts. I got a bad one if they’ll take it back it’s going back. So I’m out 4 head gaskets 3 blown a 4th to put the original head back on and the cost of shipping twice. All that adds up to about the cost of the junk head to begin with.

[old31]

I also use the nurex tool for timing the 6.1 head and use normal 4.2 timing.

I am using the copper head gasket.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/b-head-gasket

[Killerbee]

I’ve used copper twice and fiber once all blew out.

[Railcarmover]

Run new chrome moly studs and nuts,torque to 60 lbs.Posting a picture of the failed head gasket would help..

the engine in my avatar has a shaved snyder 5.5,.002 piston reliefs...zero piston protrusion the quench area (margin between the piston and head) is gasket crush.

Timing is critical to proper performance,adjusting the spark by hand robs performance by missing the proper advance as rpm rises,the model a engine performs best at 1 degree per 100 rpm. Improper timing can lead to center main bearing failure from detonation (ping)and can cause noises indistinguishable from a mechanical issue, at 4.2 to 1 the engine is tolerant of timing deviation,at 6 to 1 it isnt.Combustion chamber shape of the 6 to 1 is not an issue. Its also important to measure piston protrusion,the height the piston crown exceeds the top of the deck.I use modern sealants to 'fill' bad spots in a head or deck,just a light smear helps cure water issues.



Todd Buttermore does good work,and Snyder stands behind what he sells.

[Killerbee]

Well I’m over it and too many other people have had the same issue. I shouldn’t have to resurface a new head. I would expect that from a swap meet head not a new one. Everything was properly prepped torqued warmed cooled retorqued with the same issue. The gasket seems to blow on different spots every time either it’ll leak coolant into the cylinder or blow exhaust out of the side obviously there is an issues with this head. I’m not doing it a fourth time.

[Railcarmover]

When youre done youre done,I can relate to that.Good luck,call Snyder,give them a shot at making it good.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Killerbee

Well I’m over it and too many other people have had the same issue. I shouldn’t have to resurface a new head. I would expect that from a swap meet head not a new one. Everything was properly prepped torqued warmed cooled retorqued with the same issue. The gasket seems to blow on different spots every time either it’ll leak coolant into the cylinder or blow exhaust out of the side obviously there is an issues with this head. I’m not doing it a fourth time.

I also get the part where you are "over it" but as an engine machinist speaking here, I will tell you that if the gasket is blowing in different spots, it is my opinion that the issue is NOT with the head. If the head has an issue where it is unlevel in a certain area, it will repeatedly fail in the same location. The same can be said with cylinder block's deck. Based on your responses above, it is my opinion that the issue is with the head gasket installation. If I could inspect the gasket, the fasteners, and the block, I could likely pinpoint it even further as to the culprit.


Now the next issue you have is really not the manufacturers fault however they will likely get the blame. As soon as the installed cylinder head came up to operating temperature a couple of times, the cast iron will move by nature as it "seasons". If you check it after that heat cycle time you will almost always find it will be unlevel. Ford's O.E. heads did/do the same thing until they have seasoned and new engine components also do the same.


Adding to the above, most modern machine shops do not have a good way to support a Model-A cylinder head to resurface it. I have shown this to people in my own shop where if a Model-A cylinder head is supported on a surfacer with 3 stands and checked with an indicator, it will show one measurement however to anchor the head to keep it stationary on the resurfacer, the head is generally anchored to the table with a bolt down thru a couple of spark plug holes. When the head is tightened enough to anchor it securely, it generally deflects the head anywhere from 0.005"-0.010 in the center. That is why you typically hear of heads being distorted right out of the box.


A Model-A head is that flimsy by its design which is why the tightening process is to be performed radially and in graduated fastener tightening increments. This is another reason why clean and lubed fastener threads are important, and another area where hobbyist mechanics tend to miss the mark. At minimum you need to have your present cylinder head checked by someone who has experience and knowledge on how to correctly resurface a Model-A head. I would expect that it will be 'warped' simply because it has been heat cycled.


And finally, about the ONLY way you can accurately check a cylinder block for a level deck is with a Machinist's Straight Edge or a long Machinist's Level. The minimum length is 18" and the edge must be precision ground. Most hobbyists do not have that level of equipment to check or verify the deck surface and so their readings are false.

[old31]

Killer, I am curious, what lbs did you use for torque on the head?

[1929]

Originally Posted by old31

Killer, I am curious, what lbs did you use for torque on the head?

I am curious too, I was told to torque at 64pounds.

[john in illinois]

Very often cast iron warps as it ages. I have 2 cars with MT CAR cast iron brake drums and they always need to be skimmed when new.

I have a 5.5 Snyder head that I have used for 25,000mi and no problems. I had it checked before I put it on and it needed skimmed. I also check heads any time I remove them.

John