Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-28-2020, 02:57 PM   #1
jerry shook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 512
Default Brakes

I have a 31 A with hydraulic brakes I have put new shoes,springs, wheel cylinders,rubber lines,master cylinder. An still sponge brakes an I know the first thing is bleed them I have Bleed them. My drum set are steel an old (will cast iron drum help). Help never had all these problems.
jerry shook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 03:03 PM   #2
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,952
Default Re: Brakes

Slightly spongy pedal can come from new shoes, or, air still in the system. I'd recommend trying to bleed them some more, I think there is still air somewhere.
What style master ? What type wheel cylinders [ single or dual ] Singles can be a PITA to bleed.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-28-2020, 03:39 PM   #3
jerry shook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 512
Default Re: Brakes

They are single. The bottom adjusters Diden seem to do any good. I know the dots should face each other with new shoes. Not good on adjusting
jerry shook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 04:25 PM   #4
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,952
Default Re: Brakes

They can be buggers to bleed. Do the bottoms first.

Bleed the master cylinder on its own. Make a line to pump the fluid back into the reservoir and get the air out of it first.

Adjust the bottom first, then tops. The adjusters need to be good or a good adjustment can't be done.

Chamfer the ends of the shoes and make sure they are installed where they should be if there are primary and secondary shoes. [ if they are of different length.]
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 04:49 PM   #5
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,553
Default Re: Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry shook View Post
I have a 31 A with hydraulic brakes I have put new shoes,springs, wheel cylinders,rubber lines,master cylinder. An still sponge brakes an I know the first thing is bleed them I have Bleed them. My drum set are steel an old (will cast iron drum help). Help never had all these problems.
Was the problem there before you did all of the work?

Did you have the drums turned, remember that you can't turn steel drums as far as cast iron, how far out are your drums?

Did you have the shoes arced?

What hydraulic brake conversion are you using? Most people use '40-'48 Ford drums but they are cast iron. The only steel drums I can think of would have been with a conversion kit from the forties that used mostly original Model A parts. I can't remember much about it except that I thought it was a very poor design.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 07:17 PM   #6
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,110
Default Re: Brakes

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry shook View Post
I have a 31 A with hydraulic brakes I have put new shoes,springs, wheel cylinders,rubber lines,master cylinder. An still sponge brakes an I know the first thing is bleed them I have Bleed them. My drum set are steel an old (will cast iron drum help). Help never had all these problems.

How did you get steel drums for hydraulic brakes, didn't Ford
go to cast drums in late 1931?
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 07:31 PM   #7
jerry shook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 512
Default Re: Brakes

I bought the car with these brakes. I decided to put all new brakes. The only thing I did not change was drums.
jerry shook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 11:49 PM   #8
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,553
Default Re: Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry shook View Post
I bought the car with these brakes. I decided to put all new brakes. The only thing I did not change was drums.
How about a picture? I bet the drums are the '40-'48 cast drums.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 11:51 PM   #9
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,553
Default Re: Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
How did you get steel drums for hydraulic brakes, didn't Ford
go to cast drums in late 1931?
My only guess is that there was a kit back in the forties that let you convert your Model A to hydraulics using mostly Model A Parts. Having said that I would agues that the drums are really cast iron and '40-'48 Ford.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 07:20 AM   #10
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 8,771
Default Re: Brakes

I think most Model A conversions back in the 40's to 60's were a visit to a junk yard and front bearing spacers from Honest Charley's. If the early style (39-42) correct adj is critical as well as arced shoes to clean surfaced drums.
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 07:39 AM   #11
rocket1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Midland Park,N.J.
Posts: 1,020
Default Re: Brakes

If you have a dbl. master cylinder under the floor or even a single you should have a 10 lb. residual check valve in the line which keeps slight pressure on the shoes,some master cylinders have the valve built in.They also sell a tool that will pull a vacuum at the wheel cylinder and bleed the air out,start at the farthest cylinder first.
rocket1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 07:55 AM   #12
Jack Shaft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 771
Default Re: Brakes

The problem can be weak brake hoses or a bad master cylinder as well.Not knowing what brakes you have or the quality of installation can be very dangerous,learn the system installed.

One big issue with bleeding is master cylinder placement,most all factory hydraulic brake systems put the master (or its reservoir) above the wheel cylinders to allow for gravity bleeding.
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 10:23 AM   #13
jerry shook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 512
Default Re: Brakes

Charlie I do have steel drums , I had a mechanic help me he said they were steel An thin an I should put cast iron on the car. We changed the master cylinder 5 times before getting one that diden loose pressure .
jerry shook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 11:22 AM   #14
Jim Brierley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 3,405
Default Re: Brakes

All Ford drums after late '31 were cast iron. To check this, use your pocket knife to peel a sliver off your drums. If they are iron you will not get a sliver off, just small particles, steel will come off in a longer sliver. The dots you speak of should be facing each other only on the initial drum installation, they then must be adjusted. Adjustment initially takes a little time, but once right, the lower adjusters need no more attention. Adjust by first moving the top adjusters out to just contact the drums, then back them off a little and move the lower adjusters. Proceed going back and forth, top to bottom, until both are out as far as possible. When correct the top adjusters should free the wheel rotation with just a little movement. They should be easy to bleed, start at the farthest wheel from the M/cyl. and work towards the closest, i.e., RR, LR, RF, LF. I recommend silicone fluid, DOT-5, as it rejects moisture, so the cylinders will last nearly forever. Good luck!
Jim Brierley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 01:26 PM   #15
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,553
Default Re: Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry shook View Post
Charlie I do have steel drums , I had a mechanic help me he said they were steel An thin an I should put cast iron on the car. We changed the master cylinder 5 times before getting one that diden loose pressure .
Are they 11 or 12 inches in diameter? I would sure like to see a picture.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 02:58 PM   #16
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,110
Default Re: Brakes

I would also like to see a picture of the drums.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 03:01 PM   #17
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 1,047
Default Re: Brakes

Didn't Ford make some drums that were stamped steel with a cast iron liner? Maybe late 30's? I could be remembering wrong too.



Perhaps you have some high spot in the lines somewhere that is trapping air?
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 04:12 PM   #18
jerry shook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 512
Default Re: Brakes

Charlie. The drums are 12 inch. I wish I could send pics but can’t.
jerry shook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 05:04 PM   #19
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,110
Default Re: Brakes

I think 1940 drums were cast with a steel center.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 85A18F.jpeg (112.5 KB, 14 views)
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 06:40 PM   #20
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 1,047
Default Re: Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
I think 1940 drums were cast with a steel center.

Yep, 40-41 drums. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/V8brakedrums.htm
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 AM.