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Old 07-22-2020, 02:24 AM   #1
trulyvintage
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Lightbulb The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Before the Model T ...

Ford Motor Companyís first modern production
four cylinder motor














Jim
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Old 07-22-2020, 04:11 AM   #2
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Arrow Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor












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Old 07-22-2020, 08:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Model B. Not only the first production Ford 4, but the first with a torque tube/drive shaft and rear radius rods. Set the pattern for the Model T.
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Old 07-23-2020, 02:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

That exhaust manifold is a work of art!
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Where's the water pump?
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

On the Model B, the water pump is down low on the front of the engine, driven directly by the camshaft.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Except Ford didn’t make it. They bought it from an outside supplier.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

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Except Ford didnít make it. They bought it from an outside supplier.
It's true that Ford contracted with outside suppliers for most of the parts. Dodge Brothers was a respected foundry and machine shop, and they built the engines, frames and transmissions. But these were built to a Ford design, and the cars were assembled by Ford. The Dodge brothers were a partner in the Ford Motor Company, so you might say it was kind of built in house. It wasn't until the models N, R and S of 1906 and 1907 that Ford actually built the engine and frame in house.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Just correcting the misinformation that the B model was the first production Ford auto. It wasn’t. Ford was an assembler then, just like hundreds of other companies. They were smart enough to figure out what didn’t work, and build on the success of the model N, then hit a grand slam with the model T.
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:00 AM   #10
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Arrow Alexander Is At The Early Ford V-8 Museum In Auburn, Indiana

The 1904 Ford Model B was the first modern production engine
for Ford Motor Company.

The 1904 Ford Model B was the second production vehicle
for Ford Motor Company.

Dodge Brothers were contracted to build the first (650) Model A
Complete Running Chassis ( less wheels - tires - body - tonneau )
for $250 for Ford Motor Company.

Research is ongoing as to who designed - engineered - manufactured
the 1904 Ford Model B Prototype that was test driven on August 6th, 1904.

No one alive has ever had the opportunity to interpret an original
largely complete 1904 Ford Model B as it left The Piquette Plant
with the original chassis - suspension - drive train - engine - transmission.

I " discovered " serial number 51-52-55 in April of 2018.

I initiated the process that led to a recently completed (19) month
minimal sympathetic restoration to get the car running and driving.

I documented the ongoing process with images and video.

I was one of three people present when all four cylinders
caught and ran for the first time in anyone's living memory.

I was fortunate to video that historic moment.

I have been researching the history of The 1904 Ford Model B
and the remarkable journey of " Alexander " since April of 2018.

I negotiated a limited agreement to have the car displayed at the
Early Ford V-8 Museum in Auburn, Indiana.

I have transported the car over 4000 miles.

Personally - I am tired of " armchair experts " attempting
to influence history with personal opinions.

The 1904 Ford Model B Serial # 51-52-55 is the only acknowledged
largely original example that runs and drives.

The first museum visitors to view " Alexander " on July 25th, 2020
moments after he entered the museum before barricades were placed






Jim
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Last edited by trulyvintage; 08-04-2020 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Question this was a Ford design? Was this engine used by other manufacturers like a continental or only used by Ford? If only Ford then it is only FORD. To say it is not Ford then the Model A's with Briggs and Murry bodies are not Ford. Think about how things were done then. not much different now by parts suppliers
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by dropacent View Post
Just correcting the misinformation that the B model was the first production Ford auto. It wasnít. Ford was an assembler then, just like hundreds of other companies. They were smart enough to figure out what didnít work, and build on the success of the model N, then hit a grand slam with the model T.

Actually, the post that started this thread said that the model B was the first FOUR CYLINDER production motor, which is in fact true, and not misinformation. Ford's first production car was the Model A, which was a two cylinder motor.
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by pj's junkers View Post
Question this was a Ford design? Was this engine used by other manufacturers like a continental or only used by Ford? If only Ford then it is only FORD. To say it is not Ford then the Model A's with Briggs and Murry bodies are not Ford. Think about how things were done then. not much different now by parts suppliers

It was a Ford design that was used only by Ford.
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:04 AM   #14
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

The Piquette avenue plant was the first of the purpose built Ford assembly plants that didn't get "taken over" by investors as did the first Ford plant that became the Cadillac Motor Company plant. The Mack avenue plant was a wagon manufacturing building that was converted for use for Ford's manufacturing. There was also a separate machine shop that came later at Bellevue avenue.

You can look at the history of these early Ford facilities and pretty much tell what they could manufacture in house and what they could not. The Ford Motor Company didn't have a real foundry until they built the Highland Park plant and that was in late 1909 & early 1910. About the only things cast at the Piquette road plant were smaller brass items.

The Dodge brothers figured largely in the early operation due to their own manufacturing capability at the time but make no mistake, they were not in the business to become a major part of the Ford Motor company. They made parts for several other companies as well. They were always moving toward their own automobile company but stayed with the Ford enterprise as long as it was a way to gain the upper ground on their own interests. Malcomson, the Dodge brothers, and a few of the other investors were more interested in producing the larger more expensive Model B & K cars than they were the little model N & S cars. The model B car didn't stay in production very long and was basically replaced by the Model K. The cars were heavier than anything else they were making and this caused drive train problems with the transmissions. I don't think Henry Ford was wanting to go the big car way since sales were fewer and farther between. Charles Sorensen mentioned some of this in his book. Henry didn't have total control of the company yet so the Dodge brothers were likely involved in the design of the large cars in this time frame. John Dodge was even vice president of the company for a time in those early years. Henry had to be secretive about the model T development and this may be a large part of the reason he had the Hungarians working on it. They used chalkboards for design for several reasons and the most important was security.
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:27 AM   #15
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Lightbulb Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

I just got off an hour plus long conference call with a research intern
who has been assigned to Alexander.

The primary purpose of resurrecting Alexander is to tell the
true history of The Ford Motor Company in 1904
from the best perspective possible.

No one is alive today from 1904 except Alexander.

Everyone’s belief of events that occurred are based
on books written ( in some cases ) by dead people
who were not even alive in 1904.

Ford Motor Company Board Of Director
( BOD ) Minutes offer some insight.

Those do not necessarily tell what actually happened
at those meetings or what was happening at FMC
at the time.

This is why the “ discovery “ of Alexander - the journey
to get him running & driving - the temporary public display
at The Early Ford V-8 Foundation Museum in Auburn, Indiana
is so important.


Jim



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Old 08-04-2020, 06:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: The First Modern Production Ford Motor

If a person reads enough of the archived personal accounts of Ford Motor Company's employees that were transcribed and are available on the Henry Ford plus some of the books that were written by and about the people that worked for Ford in those early years, you find that there were all forms of personality clashes and infighting amongst them. This is all human nature so a person does have to sometimes receive the information with a grain of salt. The more you read though, the more you see that it was a challenging environment from day one. A lot of it was due to Henry Fords nature but there were a lot of other personalities that came and went for one reason or another. James Couzens was their first treasurer and holder of purse strings. He eventually became the mayor of Detroit and on to a national Senate seat after Henry bought him out. Bill Knudsen went on to GM and ran the Chevrolet Division but was called up for duty during WWII to run the War Department's Office of Production. He is one of the few men in US history to have been commissioned as a Lieutenant General directly from being a civilian. The list goes on. You can't discount what these folks had to say even if some of it was detractive or self serving. The history of the Ford Motor Company is very complex and complicated but it's also very interesting.
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Old 08-04-2020, 11:17 PM   #17
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Lightbulb 1911 Rolls Royce Motor

Today I picked up a 1913 Model T in the Denver area.

There was a 1911 Cadillac Demi Tonneau
in the garage ��








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Old 08-05-2020, 01:07 AM   #18
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Default Re: Alexander Is At The Early Ford V-8 Museum In Auburn, Indiana

[QUOTE=trulyvintage;1916555

Personally - I am tired of " armchair experts " attempting
to influence history with personal opinions.


Truer words were never spoken!! Thank you! Sadly, these "armchair experts" seem to be everywhere. You hear their made-up, fake stories at car shows, in car clubs, on many forums (including fordbarn!), in books and magazines, even from random strangers.
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: Alexander Is At The Early Ford V-8 Museum In Auburn, Indiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by trulyvintage View Post

Personally - I am tired of " armchair experts " attempting
to influence history with personal opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
Truer words were never spoken!! Thank you! Sadly, these "armchair experts" seem to be everywhere. You hear their made-up, fake stories at car shows, in car clubs, on many forums (including fordbarn!), in books and magazines, even from random strangers.

In this instance, said "armchair expert" is a respected individual with decades of hands-on Early Ford experience, an encyclopedic knowledge of the subject matter, and an actual car owner -- not some "Johnny come lately" with an agenda.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:51 PM   #20
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In this instance, said "armchair expert" is a respected individual with decades of hands-on Early Ford experience, an encyclopedic knowledge of the subject matter, and an actual car owner -- not some "Johnny come lately" with an agenda.

When I made my comment about "armchair experts" I was speaking about people in general who repeat falsehoods without caring for accuracy.
I did not realize that this discussion was primarily a tiff between two specific individuals (I don't know either one).
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