convert babbitt to insert bearings

[FRANK PKNY]

Is it practical to convert a Babbitt bearing engine (V8) to take insert bearings?

[ford3]

in a way yes, but its very expensive, a good babbit job will probably last more miles than you will drive the car, inserts makes it easy for you to work on the engine, with them you will be able to have the machine work done and then assemble the engine your self at home

[flatheadute1934]

It is about the same price to do. A couple of company do it. Or anyone the can line bored could also do it. But finding the right bearings is harder. Email me if you want more info.

[flatheadute1934]

It would be cheaper to find a good lb engine and dress it up unless you have a 32 engine.

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by FRANK PKNY

Is it practical to convert a Babbitt bearing engine (V8) to take insert bearings?

If you have enough money you can do almost anything.

[FRANK PKNY]

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I purchased a 1935 engine that was already done but upon checking the center main is .003 oversize. I guess I may have to get the Babbitt redone. Sounds like lots of money to go with insert conversion. I am in up state NY.

[JM 35 Sedan]

H&H Flatheads in La Crescenta, CA can convert an early Ford poured babbitt engine to insert bearings, but in my opinion this offers no advantages over an original 36LB engine or just having an original block re-babbitted. JMO

[Adam/Mill Valley CA]

Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell me the relative durability of poured vs insert bearings? If a motor has poured bearings, is it inherently more likely to fail after thousands of miles, given equivalent oil change intervals? My '36 has poured bearings.

Adam

[G.M.]

Then inserts are thin as is the babbitt on them. The Babbitt is thick and it the cap is tinned good and the babbit adheres to the tinning they are good for MANY years. Even if you get a little wear you can remove a shim and rescrape the Babbitt. G.M.

[Adam/Mill Valley CA]

Thanks for the info, G.M.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone, Mark Moriarty is in northern NY and he babbitts engines. Not sure the town or how to contact him. Just trying to help.

-VT/JeffH

[SUHRsc]

My friend Al Clarke may be able to help also www.godevilgarage.com

[ora masters]

are there any differnces in oil presure in babbitt or insert bearings witsch holds most i did not make good grades in spelling

[trainguy]

Poured bearings will not take the abuse that inserts do.If you drive the car with respect to the old technogy of the poured bearings and make sure the dont develope excessive clearance and pound them selves into failure.The thickness of the babbit allows for adjustment by removing shims and scraping,the thickness and softness of the babbit causes them to pound out if the clearence become excessive.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by trainguy

Poured bearings will not take the abuse that inserts do.If you drive the car with respect to the old technogy of the poured bearings and make sure the dont develope excessive clearance and pound them selves into failure.The thickness of the babbit allows for adjustment by removing shims and scraping,the thickness and softness of the babbit causes them to pound out if the clearence become excessive.

I don't think that 35,36 Babbitt motors have shims in the mains

[Bluebell]

Frank, here are some general guidelines. I'm out of my depth here with regards to first hand experience with babbited engines, however this is what I understand about the two;
Babbit is very soft, and being quite thick in a poured situation does not hold up as well as a thin walled steel shell.
Generally babbit can run with greater clearance than a liner bearing.
The babbit will have better embedability than a shell bearing.(the ability to absorb small bricks)
The shell type bearing will handle a hammering load better(because the support material is harder and the actual bearing material is thin).
An excessive clearance will beat the babbit out faster than it would a shell bearing.
An engine builder wouldn't put together a shelled type engine, with as much tolerence as would be acceptable with babbit.
The liner bearing would last longer. (all things being equal)
(the expectation of the life of the engine increased with the advent of the liner bearing)
The liner bearing engine runs at finer tolerances.
The liner bearing engine is cheaper and easier to redo in the future.
A bearing failure is more likely to damage the crank journal with the linered engine.

Lets see what that lot draws?

[Tom Walker]

Originally Posted by ora masters

are there any differnces in oil presure in babbitt or insert bearings witsch holds most i did not make good grades in spelling

Babbit or white metal as we call it over here, is softer and applied in a thicker layer than an insert bearing, and generally over a larger surface area.

Many early engines ran without any pressure to the bearings at all. Model A's have only "splash and hope" to rod bearings and a gravity feed to the mains. So pressure fed babbit bearings have it very good indeed.

Babbit is soft so small particles in the oil become imbedded in it which stops the crank wearing. Insert bearings are backed with a much harder material which cannot run without oil at pressure, and preferably filtered oil.

Well installed good quality babbit should last a very long time. If the oil is kept clean or changed regularly, the crank journals will wear very slowly as well.

[Frank Miller]

"Well installed good quality babbit"
And there is the biggest concern. Pretty much anyone can install inserts but babbit is more of a skilled art. If you go with reputation and not $$$ you will probably be ok with it.

[G.M.]

Babbit comes in in different alloy mixtures producing better wear capabilities. G.M.

[Kurt in NJ]

The Babbitt V8s didn't have shims, model A, B had very thin shims originally

many A, B and V8 babbitt cars went 60-80 thousand on their original babbitt, many A still had original shims when I took them apart.

many insert engines I have taken apart at 60-80 thousand were worn to the copper

Babbitt will survive abuse of dirt and marginal lubrication better than inserts ---the thicker babbitt will swallow and encapsulate chunks of metal that would gouge the insert and crank of an inserted engine

The 2 main reasons that a babbitt bearing pounds out are the wrong choice of babbitt, and improper installation ----babbitt bearings are used in rock crushers because they can take the pounding

Lead based babbitt is easy to pour, easy to machine, and easy to pound out ---only tin based babbitt with no lead should be used.