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Old 05-16-2013, 03:33 PM   #1
Hicktick
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Default Briggs & Murray bodies

I was doing some reading on bodies and it confused me more . From what I read just who designed the new Ford .Did Briggs design the bodies and after approval from Ford , get the contracts to make them ???

I didn't realize they stamped the bodies and painted , and trimmed them .
I assumed Ford designed and the bodies were built to their blueprints .

This is what I read and its hard for me to follow , the way its written .

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/b/briggs/briggs.htm
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

I think edsel did the initial design but Briggs and Murry tweaked the bodies a bit.

Mike
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

I know Ford made some bodies .So Briggs stamped the body parts , assembled the body , painted it , installed roof , headliner , seats , glass , door trim , etc ???? Then these almost complete bodies were shipped to the plant ???/

So the coupes and other bodies were made , painted and trimmed in the Ford plant ????

Now I wonder how much difference in the paint colors were they between Ford , Briggs and Murray ???
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

From a quality of build standpoint is a BRIGGS built body better than others? Has one body builders product survived in better condition than others? Bob
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

Briggs and Murray built the complete finished bodies. They even pin striped the bodies themselves. That's why Briggs and Murray's have different stripe patterns. Ford just simply set the completed body on a ford assembly line built chassis. Ford did the initial design and the two coach builders did their best to match the blue print. Parts between the two were rarely interchangeable. One reason why ford made the two match designs on the slant windows.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

I would think quality between the two would be about the same. Here in the south, I see Murray's 10 to 1 on Briggs if that means anything.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlen View Post
Briggs and Murray built the complete finished bodies. They even pin striped the bodies themselves. That's why Briggs and Murray's have different stripe patterns. Ford just simply set the completed body on a ford assembly line built chassis. Ford did the initial design and the two coach builders did their best to match the blue print. Parts between the two were rarely interchangeable. One reason why ford made the two match designs on the slant windows.
Hmm....

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Old 05-16-2013, 08:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

So my question is who designed the bodies Ford or Briggs and LeBaron ????
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

HOODS? If the bodies were supplied in paint, did they supply a painted hood as well? Bob
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:11 AM   #10
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlen View Post
I would think quality between the two would be about the same. Here in the south, I see Murray's 10 to 1 on Briggs if that means anything.
One reason may be that the Briggs bodies had so much more wood framing than did the Murray. Wood was more likely to rot, get loose, generally hold up less well over the many years.

Of course I have no proof to back this up...just my speculation.

Steve

P.S. Could be Murray made 10x more bodies than Briggs too.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:41 AM   #11
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

I think that Bob Gregory designed the model A bodies. Briggs and Murray added their own design specs on the bodies that they built. I also figure that the reason that there are less Briggs bodies is because they used more wood.The old guys that I talked to in the past all thought that the Briggs bodies were the best and were quieter on the road. I prefer the Briggs bodies. The reveals on the Briggs bodies look like the Town car and have more of a higher priced look. This is just my opinion and may not be exactly correct.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

Not Bob Gregory...he did not show up at ford until 1932...

http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/De...egorie_bio.htm

It was someone else...but who?
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:47 AM   #13
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

Reading from George DeAngelis The Ford Model A as Henry Built It, page 11 says that Eugene J Farkas, a Ford engineer, assisted Henry and Edsel as George documents:
The first step was simple. As various engineers recall, the dimension were immediately decided upon. Ford himself stated:"Edsel and I decided on the wheelbase and the size right away…after that it was a matter of working things out on the drawing board until we got them right.”
Unlike other automobile companies, Ford had not permitted the development of a research department an engineering staff or a styling department – whose skilled personnel could have been working on the advance projects.
As the job of developing the new car was undertaken, Ford delegated various responsibilities to his associates and gave Edsel a free hand in styling the body. (Eugene) Farkas, at first, was given charge of the overall design, but later was reassigned to special projects including brakes and axles. . . Joe Galamb designed and engineered the body and frame under the close direction of Edsel…
Then move onto pages 122 – 125 for a detailed explication of the “Three-Window Sedans” by whatever term you may use, but it is clear that:
Both manufacturers designed the body to the same basic package dimension provided by Ford Motor Company but there were major differences…”
And you can read about them from there.
It is clear in my mind that Edsel had a close relationship with Briggs particularly in the development of the Cabriolet, the Deluxe Roadsters and Phaetons, the 190A and 400A. From that, it might be inferred that Briggs was preferred over Murray because he created a better car?
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

Oh, and as far as I can tell mostly from photos and the paint and finish guide, pin striping was done in the assembly plant as the last item after buffing the bodies...
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

Murray and Briggs cowls. The rotted out Murray on the left is welded to the steel A pillar. Briggs nailed it to a wood pillar. Note how the belt moulding stops at the cowl band clip, on the Murray.The under windsheild area is different on the two. Wonder how many other 28-29 fordor cowls there were?
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:32 AM   #16
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

There is some good information on both Briggs & Murray on the 'net.
Edsel did have a long relationship with Briggs as he preferred
Briggs/ LeBaron designs & bodies for Lincoln. For Model A, contracts were split between Briggs & Murray who both made bodies for many different makes but not in the numbers that Ford required. It looks like Ford provided dimensions required & the designers at both companies would have drawn up the design which would have been approved by Edsel. Regarding the comment on differences in amounts of wood used, there was extensive wood framing used by both Briggs & Murray in the Fordor Sedans until the 1931 slant windshield models.
Also the factory photos showing Briggs Fordors on the line & also photos of completed bodies to be sent to Ford factories may be explained by location? Briggs had use of the old Highland Park Plant & later moved to Cleveland for body assembly & probably shipped completed bodies to Eastern Plants . Other locations In the US may have received stamped panels for assembly? Someone like Marco needs to read through it all & give an opinion.
Internationally, Briggs had a large Plant for European production at Trafford Park, Manchester & then Dagenham, London which produced Sedan bodywork for Model A & later Fords.
Canada used the Murray design for assembly of the 3W Fordors done at Ontario & Australia produced its own Murray style Fordors made at Geelong.

If anyone has more information or can offer corrections, that would be great.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:08 AM   #17
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Default Re: Briggs & Murray bodies

190A Victoria and 400A Convertible sedan where made by Murray only not Briggs.
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