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Old 02-20-2019, 09:25 PM   #21
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

Adding an extra gasket or two may shim the pump out far enough to allow installation of the pump , without grinding .
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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I agree , my experience has been that the water pump just pumps too much . Snyders suggested years ago to modify the impeller . I grind the tips of the impeller blades . Snyders offers a modified impeller . This is pictured on page A-140 and they give the info that you need . You can get a good idea where to grind by looking at the pics if you decide to do it yourself .This mod will also slightly reduce some of the power that an over pumping water pump will draw .
Okay this tip really will help me and something I did not know.I see the page and picture of the cutdown impeller and I am going to use a Bergs brand new radiator which it looks like I need less pump volumn.Thank You very helpful.
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:45 AM   #23
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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Must be quite a pump if it can pump out more than it can pull in from the bottom of the radiator!
The dynamics of this is that the water pump draws the water out of the block too fast and it creates a low pressure with in the block. Any water close to the boiling point, flashes into steam at the lower pressure and the steam then displaces the water in the block. Hence you have more water coming out of the water pump than is pulled in from the bottom inlet. It is the old school teaching that water boils at a lower temperature on the mountain top than the higher temperature that it boils at sea level. A pressurized radiator will very well raise the boiling point of the water in the system thereby preventing boiling over at the old lower water temperature.
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Old 02-21-2019, 03:39 AM   #24
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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The dynamics of this is that the water pump draws the water out of the block too fast and it creates a low pressure with in the block. Any water close to the boiling point, flashes into steam at the lower pressure and the steam then displaces the water in the block. Hence you have more water coming out of the water pump than is pulled in from the bottom inlet. It is the old school teaching that water boils at a lower temperature on the mountain top than the higher temperature that it boils at sea level. A pressurized radiator will very well raise the boiling point of the water in the system thereby preventing boiling over at the old lower water temperature.
Finally a perfect explanation of what happens, as I know it can pump too much coolant. Mine also used to blow out the overflow pipe at speeds over 42 MPH. Antifreeze will also raise the boiling point. I always use 50% antifreeze, and that with the flush and thermostat have fixed my coolant problems.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

When I finally grind and get everything to fit correctly should I use Permatex #2 or spray copper gasket sealer on or just install so it would be easier to remove if necessary?
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:32 AM   #26
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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The dynamics of this is that the water pump draws the water out of the block too fast and it creates a low pressure with in the block. Any water close to the boiling point, flashes into steam at the lower pressure and the steam then displaces the water in the block. Hence you have more water coming out of the water pump than is pulled in from the bottom inlet. It is the old school teaching that water boils at a lower temperature on the mountain top than the higher temperature that it boils at sea level. A pressurized radiator will very well raise the boiling point of the water in the system thereby preventing boiling over at the old lower water temperature.
Exactly! However, a properly functioning radiator and a clean block will not reach the temps where flashover occurs. Higher water turbulance also leads to better heat transfer too.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:35 AM   #27
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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When I finally grind and get everything to fit correctly should I use Permatex #2 or spray copper gasket sealer on or just install so it would be easier to remove if necessary?
I like to use Indian Head shellac on the ones I do.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:05 AM   #28
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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When I finally grind and get everything to fit correctly should I use Permatex #2 or spray copper gasket sealer on or just install so it would be easier to remove if necessary?
I like Copper Coat. In the late 70's I had to remove a Model A head to do a valve job, and some fool used shellac on the head gasket. I used a puller on the head, and had the whole front of the car in the air, and the head wasn't budging. I also had to use a hammer and thin blade to keep working around the head gasket. It took hours just to get the head off.
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

Well I work on this fitting up this morning and have figured it out. Pump will not fit over studs,mounting holes are off significantly enough that it will not fit past the fine thread end of the studs. May work with bolts or drilling mounting holes much larger but they are off quite a bit. Bratton's ofcourse say that I am the first and only one to have had this issue and even though origin was Bratton's to Mac's they cannot and willnot offer a refund or replacement. I actually bought this from another Model A guy who probably had the same problem. I was getting ready to buy a pump he had one for sale,not any cheaper actually but at the time Bratton's were out of stock. I figured he was helping me and I was helping him. Oh well at least I have new parts other than the housing I can use.
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

Check your studs. Some of the new studs are noticeably larger between the fine thread and course thread, this may be the problem.


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Old 02-21-2019, 08:09 PM   #31
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

I like to use the fake stud bolts. It makes future repairs easier.


http://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A8508.html


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Old 02-21-2019, 09:10 PM   #32
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

I also prefer the fake stud bolts . I would redrill the mounting holes before I would replace the pump housing .
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:58 AM   #33
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

I wonder if one of the studs in the head broke and someone drilled and tapped it off from the correct position.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:12 AM   #34
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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I wonder if one of the studs in the head broke and someone drilled and tapped it off from the correct position.
But the pump that I am replacing fits,same size diameter bolt holes,same diameter boss and it fits in place.I will know for sure today as I am getting another pump from Bratton's my expense and if it doesn't fit I know I either have another problem or need another pump source. I really do believe that holes are drilled off of pump boss,probably close to 1/16" just eyeballing.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:38 AM   #35
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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I wonder if one of the studs in the head broke and someone drilled and tapped it off from the correct position.
Oh wise one,yes Masster you are correct. The pump arrived from Bratton's and it too does not fit. It has to be that someone has broken a stud off years ago and rewelded or repositioned the threaded holes. The old pump fits and holes do not look enlarged or elongated that I can see. I do remember when I took it off it was bolted not the studs I replaced with. I had a great head but opted for the old one that was on the engine because of the Ford Script on it,sold the other head with an engine I had. So I am going to make this work somehow before I change heads I don't have 100% faith in the rest of the engine anyway. So going to get it running nd as I have been doing waiting for a good engine closeby. It seems to me more street rodders than ever are taking apart restored cars they are buying cheap. Thanks for all the help but that was a tricky one especially since the old pump fit.I think I will also get the bolts that look like studs.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:26 PM   #36
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

According to the Standards and Vince's site the script head was a service
replacement after 1931. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABcy...comparison.htm


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Old 02-22-2019, 12:43 PM   #37
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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Oh wise one,yes Masster you are correct. The pump arrived from Bratton's and it too does not fit. It has to be that someone has broken a stud off years ago and rewelded or repositioned the threaded holes. The old pump fits and holes do not look enlarged or elongated that I can see. I do remember when I took it off it was bolted not the studs I replaced with. I had a great head but opted for the old one that was on the engine because of the Ford Script on it,sold the other head with an engine I had. So I am going to make this work somehow before I change heads I don't have 100% faith in the rest of the engine anyway. So going to get it running nd as I have been doing waiting for a good engine closeby. It seems to me more street rodders than ever are taking apart restored cars they are buying cheap. Thanks for all the help but that was a tricky one especially since the old pump fit.I think I will also get the bolts that look like studs.
Figure out which of the studs is out of place and just file the side of the hole in the pump so it fits
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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Figure out which of the studs is out of place and just file the side of the hole in the pump so it fits
Yes,that is next after apologizing to Bratton's.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

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According to the Standards and Vince's site the script head was a service
replacement after 1931. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABcy...comparison.htm


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Yes, I know this now. I let a better non script one go so at 73 years old I am not getting any smarter and a near 90 year old car is letting me know that. Flathead V8s must be for dummies and I shoulda stayed there.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:58 PM   #40
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Default Re: Water pump won't fit now.

If the head that you let go wasn't a higher compression head , I wouldn't worry too much about it .
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