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Old 11-22-2020, 04:55 PM   #1
WHN
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Default Bone Stock or Modified?

What and why? I have for many years wondered why some Model A owners feel the call to add all kinds of things to their cars.

I’m a stock from the factory guy. No jewelry or speed parts.

Honest question. What do you guys like to see and why?

I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer to this question. Just interesting conversation.

Enjoy the upcoming holiday.
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Old 11-22-2020, 05:12 PM   #2
jb-ob
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

If you are the kind a guy who has to stand out at the show, be unique and restore your car correctly. Novel idea !

Absolutely, positively must have 'improvements', check out the break down tent at a National Meet before wasting your money.

My $.02, your mileage might differ.
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Old 11-22-2020, 05:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Adjustable valve, leak less water pump safety glass antifreeze new two blade fan are important improvements otherwise an original part works and fit better
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Old 11-22-2020, 05:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Seat belts and turn signals enhance safety with only a minor ding, IMHO, to originality. I also like 12 volts and negative ground just to ensure I can get a jump. A modern engine and trans crosses the originality rubicon for me since I like the Model A charm of whinning gears and double clutching. No criticism to those that go for the big mods, but for me, those changes compromise the time machine factor.
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Make a visit to the Museum of American Speed in Lincoln, NE and you would be amazed to see the displays of T and A speed equipment that was available during the same time these cars were still in production. The speed equipment industry has been around for almost a 100 years and contributes billions of dollars to the economy. While I have an original 1935 CRAGAR head on one of my A's, there are at least a half a dozen current OHV heads on the market today. I can appreciate a 495 point A. By the same token acquiring period correct speed equipment for an A or T is probably just as difficult as the person looking for OE equipment for a points car if not more so. Try and find a STROMBERG-BENDIX downdraft single barrel intake that was sold through Ford dealers in 1931!
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

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I'm with Dennis. I got into the Model A hobby when I started racing the A/B engines years, ago. First drag racing with a club I had joined, it grew from there. I've run, on the Bonneville salt flats and SoCal dry lakes, and have set a few records with my OHV Model B engine. I also have a widebed pickup, a Vicky and a speedster. The PU and Vicky have stock bodies but modified engines and running gear, and are a joy to drive.

If you want to stay original, that's great. If you want to get out on the road, more horsepower and better brakes are needed. As you look at A's in the parking lot at major meets you see more and more modifications.

To each his own!
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHN View Post
What and why? I have for many years wondered why some Model A owners feel the call to add all kinds of things to their cars.

I’m a stock from the factory guy. No jewelry or speed parts.

Honest question. What do you guys like to see and why?

I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer to this question. Just interesting conversation.

Enjoy the upcoming holiday.

I have discussed this very topic on more than just a few occasions. My general feeling is it often deals with the owner's skillset. Many restorers that do Fine-point restorations are not doing it for the competition per se', but the skills that must be obtained to replicate to an exact standard of what something was. Much harder than it appears. On the opposite spectrum, many hobbyists do not possess the skillset to restore the car themselves, so they purchase a car and add things to individualize it as their own. Accessories were common add-ons back in the day, -and continue to be in this day & time.
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Doesn't matter if its stock or modified, just finish it and drive it. Don't get huffy cause it doesn't suit you,its not your car. As a modifier,I use all the basic model a components and don't understand,but don't criticize those who dont..SBC? flathead V8? run what you brung. Purists can't see beyond their Tacoma cream and wide white dream,and whats truly unique is that very few correct as they came from assembly model a fords exist..the clubs are full of folks who think their model a is right and love to tell you yours is wrong..that has nothing to do with cars,that has to do with the human who owns them..opinions are like assholes,everyone has one.
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

When I bought my first car at 16, in 1961, my dad said, keep it like is was built, then you’ll always know -or be able to find out how- it’s supposed to go back together. That car was a 1929 one-owner Tudor. I took dad’s advice, and I still have the car. I have kept it original as close as safely practicable, changing only the glass and adding seatbelts. My turn signals are SmartSignals and can be easily removed to make it look all original on the outside. Next spring, when the weather warms up, I will finally add a RH taillight.

I have always believed that Ford hired the best designers and engineers he could find to develop his cars, and I trust that original knowledge. I’m not smart enough to "improve" on their decisions.

And finally, I look at owning my Model A’s as a caretaker. They are historic artifacts from a bygone era, and should be preserved for future generations. I feel the same way about old houses, boats, trains, tractors, planes and myriad other remnants of times and styles past that will never be dupilicated, even if copied. Yep. i’m just an old troglodyte, born fifty years too late.
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I'm not a purist, but I did stay sorta stock, and took a few liberties.

I started with a very tired but running all black 1930 Tudor on 16" wheels. Came with 19" wheels also, and they balanced out great. Probably was Andalusite blue originally, based on the paint on the fuel tank edges. Seats had been covered in black vinyl, but the frames were all good. I didn't really like the 1930 Tudor colors, and needed some kind of turn signals. I liked the look of cowl lamps.

So I restored with a 31 deluxe Tudor mohair interior and cowl lamps. Used the cowls for front turn signals. Went with Washington Blue and Tacoma Cream, really like that color scheme. I wanted room for a larger trunk at some point, and moved the spare to a side mount. Safety glass all around, of course. Everything else is bone stock, and quite a lot of it is original. The radiator shell and cowl band came out flawless. New England Chrome Plating did great work. The horn was toast, as was the running boards. Added a right tail light.

Any knowledgeable person would know the car is "Not correct" but 99.5% of the people that talk to me have no idea, and they probably don't care. I might be the only side mount Tudor around.

0626091642-00.jpg

So far, I like driving it as it left the factory. As many have mentioned, I like keeping the time machine at 1930. All the parts and colors on the car were being produced by Ford in 1930.
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Like myself, many of us do not own or aspire to have a fine-point restored vehicle.
I like to drive mine. It's fun, it looks great from a few feet away, and it's "mostly original".

As several have stated, I've added a second brake light. I have a NOS signalstat and will likely add turn signals in the near future. Cast Iron drums and Radial Tires already replace the originals. And the ultimate sin for pickup owners... I have a stainless shell and headlight buckets.

But beyond that, I do try to maintain originality and always looking to improve the vehicle whenever I find something that "isn't right". I have my bucket list as I find original parts. Original Commercial light buckets have been acquired.

I always try to keep in mind that we are only the temporary custodians of these vehicles, to be passed on to the the next generation at some point in time, so don't screw it up.
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Old 11-23-2020, 06:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I pretty much like all Model A stock or modified as long as they still have the Banger under the hood. Really appreciate the restored points cars but the best way to appreciate one is to just drive the hell out of them.
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Old 11-23-2020, 09:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I wonder why some folks keep their Model A's stock. In a stock configuration, a Model A is not safe to drive in modern traffic. Certainly nobody of sound mind would drive a Model A with an original 2-blade fan, or original lighting, or plate glass windows, or an original radiator, or without outside mirrors. Stretching it a bit, driving a stock Model A without turn signals is hazardous.
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Old 11-23-2020, 10:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

The only thing that baffles me about why someone wants a detailed points restoration or someone wants a heavily modified car that is nearly unrecognizable (and of course everything in between) is why does anyone care what someone else likes. Some people get their panties in bunch when they see a car that is not how THEY prefer them and will make disparaging remarks to ensure that the owner is aware of their disapproval. The car that I refer to as "stock" is not really since i added the second tail light and signals and recently tubular shocks. The only reason I went with the tubular is that the cost of good originals was prohibitive IMO. However, it has 19" bias plys, mechanical brakes, 6V, generator, rebuilt but stock engine. The reason I don't upgrade these things??, I want to experience what these cars were like. However, I also have two hot rodded with SBC's TH350trans, yeta yeta yeta blah blah blah also. I'm sure that a few reading this are shaking their head when reading that i run bias ply tires and mechanical brakes thinking that this is unsafe. I disagree. I know that there are others whos blood pressure spiked when they read "SBC". I don't care. I do what I like with MY cars and when someone has a car with features that i DON'T like, it doesn't matter because it's not MY car. If it makes the owner happy, awesome. If it is well done, i will comment as such but refrain from commenting on "taste" as that is a personal thing. If you wouldn't tell a stranger that you think his wife should lose weight or change her hair colour, don't tell them that they should run a banger or 16" wheels on their model A. JMO.
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Old 11-23-2020, 11:16 AM   #15
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Cool Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I try and stay as stock as possible on my "A". Safety up-grades are just that
as they are for the safety of me and other drivers. As far as "accessory" add-ons I try and stay era correct if not year correct. With the add-ons being original and not reproduction.


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Old 11-23-2020, 11:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Well said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. "Can't we all just get along?"
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Old 11-23-2020, 01:33 PM   #17
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I mostly use modifications that don't show or stand out as modifications . I run a stock appearing higher compression head that gives more power for hills . I seldom drive the model A over 50 mph . Model A engines are usually starving for better fuel distribution . I run an after market Trojan intake manifold that runs two model B Zenith carburetors . I use a model A camshaft that was reground to Winfield 3/4 race specs by Bill Stipe , I use adjustable tappets with this cam . I opened up the intake ports for a little bit better breathing . I did a very simple 12 volt conversion and use the Pertronix 40,000 volt flame thrower coil . I use a new model B distributor cam that gives better dwell . I run a lighter model B flywheel that takes some weight off the main bearings . The lighter flywheel gives quicker throttle response . I use a new balanced two blade aluminum fan that resists slinging a fan blade through the radiator or hood . I completely gutted the original style muffler to remove some back pressure . I run either a bronze or aluminum cam gear to reduce the possibility that I will ever need to replace the original type timing gear again . I run the original generator on 12 volts with a Fun Projects 12 volt voltage regulator . I use a heavy duty eight fins per inch radiator and a leakless water pump that I built .

At car shows , I mostly only reveal the drivers side of the engine so that my dual updraft setup doesn't show . The dual carbs don't seem to hurt gas mileage .

I use reproduction stainless steel bumpers that should last . I also installed a right hand tail lamp for safety . I also use cast iron brake drums and brake floaters on the front . There are a few other small mods that I have overlooked .

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Old 11-23-2020, 04:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I think this is the beauty of the hobby. we all are individuals and make cars that appeal us. the variety of restoration or how original the car is up to you. I enjoy looking at the cars and the ideas the owner has. We all enjoy the cars, some more than others.
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Old 11-23-2020, 05:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I like to keep mine as close to OEM as possible. I have made upgrades to a leakless water pump. If I can ever lick the condenser issue, the car would be perfect. I like the original FORD design and I know I can get parts. Thinking about turn signals. Plan on installing seat belts in the spring of 2021. I also do not drive my A over 40.
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Old 11-23-2020, 05:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I'm pretty much with what Purdy said "modifications that don't show or stand out as modifications". Safety & creature comforts are paramount, as long as they do not alter the original look of the Model A.

At car shows, I only open the hood on request.
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Old 11-23-2020, 06:40 PM   #21
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My opinion has changed over the last 60 years. As a teenager I was an advocate of bone stock. Now I am with CarlG and others that modifications that improve reliability and safety, and that do not take away from the Model A experience, are OK. Especially modifications that increase safety, like turn indicators and improvements to the brakes. I am not going to criticize others who want to do more radical modifications or even hot rod a car, but it is not for me.
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Old 11-23-2020, 08:59 PM   #22
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Almost the first question I get when my coupe is parked is, "Does it have a rumble seat?” No, it doesn’t. I changed the rumble seat in my ‘29 54A back to a trunk, as it had when it came from the factory. Rumble seats are not safe nor easy to get in and out of unless you’re under 35, under 6’ tall, and/or weigh less than 180 lbs, and a trunk is much more practical with the small seating up front. Like my other A’s, I made the safety changes, but I love the trunk. It just looks right!
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:50 AM   #23
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I like them all!
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
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My opinion has changed over the last 60 years. As a teenager I was an advocate of bone stock. Now I am with CarlG and others that modifications that improve reliability and safety, and that do not take away from the Model A experience, are OK. Especially modifications that increase safety, like turn indicators and improvements to the brakes. I am not going to criticize others who want to do more radical modifications or even hot rod a car, but it is not for me.
There is a real irony in many hobbyist's perception that often things are done to improve safety and/or reliability. When you stop to study those comments, it should quickly be a realization that these cars were very reliable in stock form which is the main reason why they are still with us today. So often, components such as electronic ignition systems, modern steering gearboxes, alternators, et/al as installed under the auspice that it was done to 'make their Model-A a reliable driver' when for 50 years prior, the very same cars were very reliable drivers without those 'upgrades'.

From a safety standpoint, some will argue that cast iron drums are a must when driving today. When you take a moment to consider that original steel drums that are within factory specs will stop well enough to slide the wheels/tires, it begs the question of whether cast drums are really needed. So on that note, most people do not drive their A as it was designed for, -or intended. Therefore it really isn't a safety issue but more of a compensation for poor driving habits. Always descending a hill in the same gear that you would go up the hill is the proper way to preserve brakes. Not charging up to a stop sign or traffic signal before applying the brakes is the proper driving method. I have found that a stock braking system that is properly adjusted can make multiple hard braking stops without any appreciable brake fading. So it isn't that the cast iron drums are needed as a safety item, -it is they are needed to replace worn factory components or to replace prudent driving.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
Almost the first question I get when my coupe is parked is, "Does it have a rumble seat?” No, it doesn’t. I changed the rumble seat in my ‘29 54A back to a trunk, as it had when it came from the factory. Rumble seats are not safe nor easy to get in and out of unless you’re under 35, under 6’ tall, and/or weigh less than 180 lbs, and a trunk is much more practical with the small seating up front. Like my other A’s, I made the safety changes, but I love the trunk. It just looks right!
Why do you say "Rumble seats are not safe"?.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:09 AM   #26
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Brent said, "There is a real irony in many hobbyist's perception that often things are done to improve safety and/or reliability".



Brent's post is right to a point. All of the things he mentions are correct....for driving in the 1930's! Durango is a tourist town with a heavy dose of bicyclists that are immune to traffic laws. It's a 40+ mile round trip to the bank and I need to not only keep up with traffic, but watch out for stupid drivers. In Colorado, the law says you have to pull over if five or more cars are behind you on mountain passes. If you're driving a stock A to Silverton, it will take all day on a two lane road.


Again, I don't dispute Brent's points. However there is a lot of difference between driving an A in the thirties then it is today.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:16 PM   #27
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The big radial tires are an immediate indication that this vehicle is not original. And guess what, it’s not!
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:17 AM   #28
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When I got my first A in 1962 I always wanted a Riley head and juice brakes. Now, nearly 60 years later, I am finally getting it. Also '39 transmission, full pressure oiling, counterbalanced crank, alternator, leak-less pump. Holley carburetor, 16" rims. Why? Because that is what I want.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:01 AM   #29
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It's an off road vehicle.

You are trying to drive in the fast lane.
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:28 AM   #30
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When I got my first A in 1962 I always wanted a Riley head and juice brakes. Now, nearly 60 years later, I am finally getting it. Also '39 transmission, full pressure oiling, counterbalanced crank, alternator, leak-less pump. Holley carburetor, 16" rims. Why? Because that is what I want.
I congratulate you For building your dream but you don’t have a Model A anymore, you have a hot rod.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:09 AM   #31
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I congratulate you For building your dream but you don’t have a Model A anymore, you have a hot rod.
Are you saying that Chris is no longer welcome here because his car does not meet YOUR criteria for a "Model A"??. This IS a Model A only sight after all. May I ask, what was the point of that post anyway other than to disparage Chris's car with your "you don't have a Model A" comment. Technically, it is a hotrod...a MODEL A hotrod and is no less a Model A than whatever you have (assuming you even have one).
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:05 AM   #32
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I congratulate you For building your dream but you don’t have a Model A anymore, you have a hot rod.

Do you really need to start this subject again? Not saying what my opinion is. But you do seem to be a bit of a troll, like to take controversial subjects with no real definitive answer and take them down a rabbit hole. Sometimes when someone disagrees with you, you go on the attack to support your opinion, but do not seem to consider others. Sometimes your replies are incendiary comments, no info.



At least in my case, it stifles my involvement in the Barn. I end up proofing my posts 3 or 4 times to insure the post does not give you an opening to chime in with a non helpful, non supported reply.


Maybe I am a little too sensitive, I can not stand bullies. Once I posted something and you went on the attack. My subsequent respectful posts were responded to with bullying, and I soon gave up defending my point of view. Have seen you treat others the same way occasionally



It is sad, the Barn has been very helpful, especially when I was a newbie, probably without the Barn I would have sold my A which I inherited.



I am so glad I have alternatives that do not put up with this behavior. So farewell Ford Barn, I am going cold turkey, will no longer be a part of this forum.



No need to respond, will not see responses, no plans to view or log into this forum anymore.


Adios, fond farewell to the 99.999 % of Barn members - lots of good people on here.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:22 AM   #33
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

The fordbarn is like life and a box of chocolates …….. you just never know !!!


I like to keep both my "A" and early V8 pickup stock looking. I had the Mitchell and 6 volt alternators but have since removed them for stock generators.


I would like to convert to 12 volt only not to have to replace dead batteries every couple of years.


I appreciate this forum and all the help I have received.


HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Licensed to kill View Post
Why do you say "Rumble seats are not safe"?.
If you are in an accident in your A rumble seat passengers are at a great risk of serious injury. If it is a rear-ender, the seat back can be thrown forward and increase the injury front and back to the person also being thrown forward. If the accident is a T-bone, the car is likely to be tipped over, throwing RS passengers out, especially small children, and children are the most often RS passengers. Our cars are top heavy and light weight compared with SUVs and large pickups, and a T-bone could cause an A to flip onto its top or roll over completely.

Seat belts and seat back stops might help, but in 60 years of owning and driving A’s I have never seen these installed in a rumble, and even if they were, adequate and secure anchoring would be necessary, and could present a false sense of safety.

In any accident now in an A vs a modern car or truck the A is going to lose, but at least in a closed car you have more protection than sitting in an open rumble seat.

Considering today’s cars, speeds, and traffic, these risks are more than I wanted to assume. So I quit letting people ride in my RS and converted it to a trunk. It just seemed like a safe, responsible and practical thing to do.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:57 PM   #35
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Do you really need to start this subject again? Not saying what my opinion is. But you do seem to be a bit of a troll, like to take controversial subjects with no real definitive answer and take them down a rabbit hole. Sometimes when someone disagrees with you, you go on the attack to support your opinion, but do not seem to consider others. Sometimes your replies are incendiary comments, no info.

At least in my case, it stifles my involvement in the Barn. I end up proofing my posts 3 or 4 times to insure the post does not give you an opening to chime in with a non helpful, non supported reply.

Maybe I am a little too sensitive, I can not stand bullies. Once I posted something and you went on the attack. My subsequent respectful posts were responded to with bullying, and I soon gave up defending my point of view. Have seen you treat others the same way occasionally

It is sad, the Barn has been very helpful, especially when I was a newbie, probably without the Barn I would have sold my A which I inherited.

I am so glad I have alternatives that do not put up with this behavior. So farewell Ford Barn, I am going cold turkey, will no longer be a part of this forum.

No need to respond, will not see responses, no plans to view or log into this forum anymore.

Adios, fond farewell to the 99.999 % of Barn members - lots of good people on here.
Wow, that could have been writen by me. My sentiments exactly. here I was thinking I was the only one. There are a few on Ford Barn that I have simply put on my ignore list.

I wish you well, 30 Closed Cab PU. Hope you continue enjoying your Model A without the heartburn.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:06 PM   #36
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I agree with 30 Closed Cab PU. I pretty much quit posting here mainly due to some of the comments made by 30 Closed Cab PU. I still check here hoping for some good information on restoration questions, but they are farther apart and fewer of them than some time ago.
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:24 PM   #37
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I no longer have my Model A but I sometimes read these forums. So...why would you let someones post bother you to the point of dropping off the forum? Just ignore it or tell them to kiss your ass. After I turned 70 I found out I don't suffer fools well anymore and just ignore people who are somewhat full of themselves.


Thats my 2¢
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:46 PM   #38
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Wow this went down hill fast!

Started out a simple question, ruffled some feathers
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:03 PM   #39
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I think there's a continuum. On one end, you have the high point authentic restoration, or original unrestored car. On the other end, you have a car that has nothing on it from a Model A except parts of the body steel. Engine, steering, transmission, suspension, brakes, even the frame isn't Model A. How can that still be a Model A? Or to take it to another extreme, I make an entirely custom car and put a Model A headlight bar on it. Is it a Model A? Which part on the car makes it a Model A above all others?

I've frequented a dozen forums. All have strong differences of opinion expressed, and the degree of moderation varies quite a bit. What opinionated comments I see here is on the mild end of the spectrum, and I see no issue in disagreement being expressed. Pay no attention to it, address it, place the author on ignore, but it's not a good reason to leave a forum. (In my view) There's very likely many more readers that value your posts.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:42 PM   #40
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I've spent a lot of time trying to make new stuff look original era. Modified of course as I didn't start with much beyond a chassis. original round tube radiator, headlight and tail light stalks hand made. Good times.

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Old 11-25-2020, 10:54 PM   #41
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I tend to read the posts that deal with solving specific problems or "How to" topics. These topics about originality, what kind of oil do you use, whether or not to use antifreeze, etc just seem to be magnets for anger-laden posts. Those topics will go on and on until Hell freezes over so I move on and ignore.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
If you are in an accident in your A rumble seat passengers are at a great risk of serious injury. If it is a rear-ender, the seat back can be thrown forward and increase the injury front and back to the person also being thrown forward. If the accident is a T-bone, the car is likely to be tipped over, throwing RS passengers out, especially small children, and children are the most often RS passengers. Our cars are top heavy and light weight compared with SUVs and large pickups, and a T-bone could cause an A to flip onto its top or roll over completely.

Seat belts and seat back stops might help, but in 60 years of owning and driving A’s I have never seen these installed in a rumble, and even if they were, adequate and secure anchoring would be necessary, and could present a false sense of safety.

In any accident now in an A vs a modern car or truck the A is going to lose, but at least in a closed car you have more protection than sitting in an open rumble seat.

Considering today’s cars, speeds, and traffic, these risks are more than I wanted to assume. So I quit letting people ride in my RS and converted it to a trunk. It just seemed like a safe, responsible and practical thing to do.
Thank you for the reply.
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:28 AM   #43
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Thank you for the reply.
You’re welcome. It’s just my opinion. I don’t mean to preach.
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:30 AM   #44
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I congratulate you For building your dream but you don’t have a Model A anymore, you have a hot rod.
Maybe I do. But nothing on my car is cut or butchered. Everything is bolt-on. If the next owner doesn't want my modified car then can un-bolt what I have added and replace it with original parts, which I still have. In the meantime I will continue to enjoy it.
As for being a Hot Rod, I prefer the term Period Modified.
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Old 11-26-2020, 06:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Bill G View Post
I tend to read the posts that deal with solving specific problems or "How to" topics. These topics about originality, what kind of oil do you use, whether or not to use antifreeze, etc just seem to be magnets for anger-laden posts. Those topics will go on and on until Hell freezes over so I move on and ignore.
Yet to see an “anger laden” post in this thread. However, by ignoring this posts, you could miss out on some original parts being sold for five cents on the dollar. I make sure that the original parts that I replace with era correct speed equipment are made a available to A owners for cheap.
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Old 11-26-2020, 08:04 PM   #46
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I think back to 1971, and the first thing everybody was doing to their new Muscle Cars was putting on a set of Cragar S/S's, Holley carburetors, open element air cleaners, throwing the smog pumps away, for starters.

Easily put back to bone stock original. Bolt on parts.

Now, those smog pumps. We tossed them in the garbage and now today one for a 428CJ Mustang sells for north of a thousand bucks, if you can find one, and want the car back to bone stock.

I haven't met any Model A folks that throw original parts away, so that won't be a problem putting those 19 inch rims back on, replacing that Tillotson with a Zenith, etc.
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Old 11-26-2020, 10:47 PM   #47
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Model a modified.. that's catchy, someone should name a facebook page that..it a good description of what's done, original components modified for speed and handling..
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Old 11-27-2020, 12:51 AM   #48
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Modified? Intake & Exhaust manifolds made by Tod. A little re-arrangement of other things.
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Old 11-30-2020, 08:00 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mister Moose View Post
I'm not a purist, but I did stay sorta stock, and took a few liberties.

I started with a very tired but running all black 1930 Tudor on 16" wheels. Came with 19" wheels also, and they balanced out great. Probably was Andalusite blue originally, based on the paint on the fuel tank edges. Seats had been covered in black vinyl, but the frames were all good. I didn't really like the 1930 Tudor colors, and needed some kind of turn signals. I liked the look of cowl lamps.

So I restored with a 31 deluxe Tudor mohair interior and cowl lamps. Used the cowls for front turn signals. Went with Washington Blue and Tacoma Cream, really like that color scheme. I wanted room for a larger trunk at some point, and moved the spare to a side mount. Safety glass all around, of course. Everything else is bone stock, and quite a lot of it is original. The radiator shell and cowl band came out flawless. New England Chrome Plating did great work. The horn was toast, as was the running boards. Added a right tail light.

Any knowledgeable person would know the car is "Not correct" but 99.5% of the people that talk to me have no idea, and they probably don't care. I might be the only side mount Tudor around.

Attachment 448195

So far, I like driving it as it left the factory. As many have mentioned, I like keeping the time machine at 1930. All the parts and colors on the car were being produced by Ford in 1930.
Nice car. It sounds like you drive it, which is the best part.
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:03 PM   #50
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Any knowledgeable person would know the car is "Not correct" but 99.5% of the people that talk to me have no idea, and they probably don't care. I might be the only side mount Tudor around.
I have heard that dealers often installed side mounts.
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:30 PM   #51
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Chris may have hit on something here, back when the Model "A" was new, aftermarket parts were available. It wasn't un-common for a dealership to install an OHV head on one.

I can hear my Dad now at the dinner table, "no, no changes to the car"!!

This subject has been around forever, it is an individual choice.

Most respect to those who drive them today, it can be a challenge.

John
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:39 PM   #52
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Nice car. It sounds like you drive it, which is the best part.
2,000 miles in 20 years, so not a lot. The early overheat issue and then the loose steering issue that followed took time to work out. (At worst we're talking 60 degrees on the wheel of slop) I'm still in the "Don't completely trust it" phase, but now with the steering down to under an inch of play it's an ice cream car, a hardware store car, a light grocery list car, a farm stand car, and I'll probably take in a few car shows next summer. Look at everyone else's Model A on my list of "Is this the way it's supposed to be???"

While some people talk about the looks and waves you get, and I get some, I also notice quite a few people that look right at me with a complete indifferent expression that looks like I'm driving a Ford Taurus.
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Old 11-30-2020, 10:31 PM   #53
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Nice car. It sounds like you drive it, which is the best part.
I agree !
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Old 12-01-2020, 12:12 AM   #54
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Modifiers don't have ice cream runners,the mechanical performance is paramount.most don't tolerate issues with their cars,other than appearance.And that's only for some. High end modifiers can have over 15k in their engines alone..model a horsepower is expensive. If it was raw cheap horsepower we were after we'd all run small block chevys..but modifiers are model a guys,its not about hotrodding its about performance from an L head four cylinder ford engine..the same reason why you love to drive an A,technically its called low end torque..when you can build on that torque,to coax all that engine has without flogging it...split second gear with a mitchell and pull hard...that same second gear a stock A takes to 25 I can take to 50..
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:56 AM   #55
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

I have the same Model A that I grew up in with my grandparents. I will say when we went on tours as a kid, the Model A was purely stock with the exception of a 6v alt.

My car is now still a Model A, but with several modifications for speed and what I consider safety.

As a kid, we'd go on a tour and we'd occasionally break down. Condenser would go out, or points needed to be reset. Often before a tour, we'd check the points, radiator fluid, etc. There was a whole checklist.

Now, after modifying the car, I very rarely have to check anything at all. Check the brake fluid once a year. Never have to do anything with points or condensers because I don't have that anymore. I tour WAYYY more than we did growing up and have fare less issues or maintenance. I literally do not even know the last time I checked my radiator fluid because I now have a closed system. I have a temp gauge so I would know if it got low and started running warmer.

That being said, I loved touring in a stock car. I love touring in the same car that is now modified. I am more comfortable now that previously. I can get there at a quicker rate with less issues.

That's my stance on the issue.
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:42 PM   #56
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I have had my cabriolet since 1958-59. It was a bit modified when I got it with 16” 1935 wire wheels and BLC sealed beam headlights. It survived the depression and WWII. It was mostly complete, but worn. I made a few more changes while I was still in high school and it was my everyday car. Fifty years later I rebuilt it and made a bunch more modifications, spending a couple thousand hours of my time and many additional hours with the painter and upholstery pros. To most people it is just a nice old car with a four cylinder Model A motor. They couldn’t care less what is a modification. On a 500 mile trip by myself on mostly freeways, I realized better brakes than the 40 Ford brakes are needed, so one more modification is in the planning. It is my model A, and I am happy with it, and that is all that matters.

The debates on original versus modified all seem the same, some for and some against, with many personal qualifications on their positions. My basic position is there were many millions of Model A’s built, even tens of thousands of my fairly rare cabriolet, so no one should feel that there is only one proper way to build a Model A. Just do what you want with your car, time, and money.

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Old 12-11-2020, 01:28 PM   #57
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As you can easily see, my roadster is way out of line for body and wheel color but it is eye catching if only for a quick glance. It also came to me with a March, 1937 diamond engine. It has seat belts, leak less pump, white wall tires, wrong color upholstery and top, 6 volt alternator, ( but I do still have the original powerhouse ). But it is wicked fun to drive, gets lots of smiles and waves, travels about 1000 miles a season and is not subject to a monthly payment--- except for gas and oil. I think of it as being " stockified." Bill
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Old 12-29-2020, 08:54 PM   #58
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As you can easily see, my roadster is way out of line for body and wheel color but it is eye catching if only for a quick glance. It also came to me with a March, 1937 diamond engine. It has seat belts, leak less pump, white wall tires, wrong color upholstery and top, 6 volt alternator, ( but I do still have the original powerhouse ). But it is wicked fun to drive, gets lots of smiles and waves, travels about 1000 miles a season and is not subject to a monthly payment--- except for gas and oil. I think of it as being " stockified." Bill
Pete, the best part is that you drive it, and enjoy it. Good for you. Lots of guys in our club have more than one A, and I have never seen most of them ay all. Just a shame. One good car that gets driven will always be better than 3 or 4 and none of them run or are reliable.
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Old 12-29-2020, 09:27 PM   #59
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For many years, I have said "If it looks like a Model A, Sounds Like a Model A, Runs like a Model A, then it is a Model A. Safety improvements and unseen additions aside, IT IS YOUR CAR, ENJOY IT...
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Old 12-29-2020, 11:14 PM   #60
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It’s such a shame when someone doesn’t respect or honor someone else’s hard work. We inherited our A from my wife’s uncle when he passed away. Is it Period Correct? No. But it was his VISION and it took him 9 years to rebuild it the way he wanted and he did almost everything himself. It’s close to perfect. But what matters most is the pure joy we see on other peoples faces when it’s driven-which is 2-3 times a week. That’s honoring him to us. We’ve had old timers come up and say how their day has been made by simply seeing it and reliving their past for a few moments. I wouldn’t trade that experience for anything. As others have stated- an A is an A. They all came off the Ford assembly line at some point. What someone chooses to do with it and how they envision it should be respected even if it doesn’t meet your own criteria
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Old 12-30-2020, 07:57 AM   #61
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I have had my cabriolet since 1958-59. It was a bit modified when I got it with 16” 1935 wire wheels and BLC sealed beam headlights. It survived the depression and WWII. It was mostly complete, but worn. I made a few more changes while I was still in high school and it was my everyday car. Fifty years later I rebuilt it and made a bunch more modifications, spending a couple thousand hours of my time and many additional hours with the painter and upholstery pros. To most people it is just a nice old car with a four cylinder Model A motor. They couldn’t care less what is a modification. On a 500 mile trip by myself on mostly freeways, I realized better brakes than the 40 Ford brakes are needed, so one more modification is in the planning. It is my model A, and I am happy with it, and that is all that matters.

The debates on original versus modified all seem the same, some for and some against, with many personal qualifications on their positions. My basic position is there were many millions of Model A’s built, even tens of thousands of my fairly rare cabriolet, so no one should feel that there is only one proper way to build a Model A. Just do what you want with your car, time, and money.

Nice ! I like it, more pictures ! Please !
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Old 12-30-2020, 09:28 AM   #62
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My philosophy is K I S S but to each his or her own.
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Old 12-30-2020, 09:38 AM   #63
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You bring up an interesting point between modified and stock..keep it simple...okay, Ill bite...which is simpler? an ignition system with manual spark advance or mechanical timing advance? which is simpler? hydraulic or mechanical brakes?

Another factor in simplicity is the maintenance load...though the function is technically simpler does it need more maintenance? then is it really simpler?
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:12 AM   #64
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You bring up an interesting point between modified and stock..keep it simple...okay, Ill bite...which is simpler? an ignition system with manual spark advance or mechanical timing advance? which is simpler? hydraulic or mechanical brakes?

Another factor in simplicity is the maintenance load...though the function is technically simpler does it need more maintenance? then is it really simpler?
It's always "simpler" to just leave it as it is rather than making modifications/changes. It is a LOT simpler to stay with mechanical brakes than to convert to hydraulic and if someone wants those mechanical upgrades, it's "simpler" to buy a newer car that came with them rather than a car that did not and has to be changed. Modifying something is never "simpler" than leaving it stock unless the stock parts are broken and are not available any more. Now, DRIVING may (or may not) be simpler if you make changes to things like the ignition and brakes on a model A but it's STILL simpler to just buy a car that already has those features. Point is that defining "simple" is not necessarily all that "simple"
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:05 PM   #65
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I would love to have a 100 point restored car. They are not in my budget.
I bought a decent running car that did not have original color paint and was a combination of ingredients. Over the years I have been adding missing parts, such as the top material.
I have upgraded the steering and suspension to make it safe and easy to maintain. Since I was a teenager I wanted a RILEY head and a "B" crank. Now I have it.
If I suddenly came into a heap of cash I would be shopping for a mostly original unrestored car. After all, they can be restored a million times but they are only original once.
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Old 12-30-2020, 09:35 PM   #66
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Thats your car Chris,it doesn't need to meet any standards but yours...it meets mine as well, nice work...
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Old 12-31-2020, 05:36 AM   #67
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Very interesting responses. Why do we make changes? Some are content with originality and keeping it the same, That's fine for some. I think others have a basic inner need to change. Why do we repaint our homes, rearrange furniture, move benches in our shops? Usually change is prompted by the personal need for change or the need to upgrade. the need to change is a self-motivated. I need to do or be different to be fulfilled as a productive person, The need to upgrade for is often for safety or personal comfort. As we see in the responses Model A owners are not all alike we we all have a preference for no change, some change, or no limit change, I personally have my own limits to changes on my A but I appreciate what others choose to do or not do. Great discussion. thanks,
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:15 AM   #68
Jack Shaft
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It's always "simpler" to just leave it as it is rather than making modifications/changes. It is a LOT simpler to stay with mechanical brakes than to convert to hydraulic and if someone wants those mechanical upgrades, it's "simpler" to buy a newer car that came with them rather than a car that did not and has to be changed. Modifying something is never "simpler" than leaving it stock unless the stock parts are broken and are not available any more. Now, DRIVING may (or may not) be simpler if you make changes to things like the ignition and brakes on a model A but it's STILL simpler to just buy a car that already has those features. Point is that defining "simple" is not necessarily all that "simple"
Got to disagree, take the distributor for instance, you could change to a mechanical advance easily. This has many returns on investment, better economy, a cooler running engine, lower combustion chamber temperatures (longer head gasket and exhaust manifold gasket life) elimination of spark knock and the damage it causes. Clearly a modification with a high return.
Converting to hydraulic brakes is labor intensive and has some cost factor, but the reduced instances of maintenance alone will ultimately defray that cost, the benefits of equal application pressure on all wheels is the ultimate in braking safety. I enjoy the maintenance of mechanical brakes and have effective stopping power but there are many cars and owners out there with poor maintenance and limited owner skill ,hydraulic brakes, especially bendix style self energizing with self adjusters would be a smart upgrade for alot of folks.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:32 AM   #69
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Got to disagree,
I would expect nothing less.

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.... take the distributor for instance, you could change to a mechanical advance easily. This has many returns on investment, better economy, a cooler running engine, lower combustion chamber temperatures (longer head gasket and exhaust manifold gasket life) elimination of spark knock and the damage it causes. Clearly a modification with a high return.
Converting to hydraulic brakes is labor intensive and has some cost factor, but the reduced instances of maintenance alone will ultimately defray that cost, the benefits of equal application pressure on all wheels is the ultimate in braking safety. I enjoy the maintenance of mechanical brakes and have effective stopping power but there are many cars and owners out there with poor maintenance and limited owner skill ,hydraulic brakes, especially bendix style self energizing with self adjusters would be a smart upgrade for alot of folks.
I understand what you are saying and in some circumstances, would agree but not all (most?). However, be that as it may, I appreciate people sharing opposing views to my own. That is how I learn. Sometimes I learn that my point of view was flawed and i can adjust accordingly, and sometimes the opposing view does not hold water IMO and just confirms my present position. Either way, for me, opposing views have value and i appreciate them. Thanks.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:38 AM   #70
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

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It's always "simpler" to just leave it as it is rather than making modifications/changes. It is a LOT simpler to stay with mechanical brakes than to convert to hydraulic and if someone wants those mechanical upgrades, it's "simpler" to buy a newer car that came with them rather than a car that did not and has to be changed. Modifying something is never "simpler" than leaving it stock unless the stock parts are broken and are not available any more. Now, DRIVING may (or may not) be simpler if you make changes to things like the ignition and brakes on a model A but it's STILL simpler to just buy a car that already has those features. Point is that defining "simple" is not necessarily all that "simple"



One of the problems with threads like this is the lack of perspective. Take brakes for instance. Yes, you can "skid" all four tires with mechanical brakes. But how many times can you do that in heavy traffic situations. A lot of posts reference specific kits for hydraulic brake conversions. I've done several with used parts and the emergency brake cross shaft. Problem solving is as much fun in making modifications as the actual modifications. Having made a fine living in the hot rod equipment industry, I can appreciate all points of view on this subject.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:48 AM   #71
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:58 AM   #72
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I would expect nothing less.


I understand what you are saying and in some circumstances, would agree but not all (most?). However, be that as it may, I appreciate people sharing opposing views to my own. That is how I learn. Sometimes I learn that my point of view was flawed and i can adjust accordingly, and sometimes the opposing view does not hold water IMO and just confirms my present position. Either way, for me, opposing views have value and i appreciate them. Thanks.
The problem with the electronic communication is we cant read emotion, we only assume the others context through our own prism.. The model a ford in pure stock form is a reliable, efficient and well engineered machine. As automotive engineering advanced in my opinion some upgrades can actually improve the design.
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:39 PM   #73
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Default Re: Bone Stock or Modified?

Will we ever learn, History repeats itself over and over again.
I was doing some research on some old racers and found articles, same arguments as this thread back in the '90's. Brakes, Inserts, distributors etc.
True, automotive technology has progressed and the original cars do have a place in history.
What we should be concerned with is the preservation of ALL of these cars, as the electrics will eventually render them unusable or undrivable.
The other issue should be educating anyone who is remotely interested in these cars, I met a young man recently who was looking over my coupe. He had driven up in a Shay car and was asking me if mine was a kit car. After some discussion he realized why his only cost $8k. Then he took interest in leaning and he is looking for an original to start rebuilding/restoring.

Happy New Year All, may '21 be better than this last disaster.
John
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Old 12-31-2020, 01:56 PM   #74
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Sooner than you think about electric vehicles.. we offer a million dollar electric machine, with all the subsidies currently offered over 900k is provided by you and I, the taxpayer if you operate on port property in CA. Its where the focus is right now, the ports are easily controlled and monitored. Pride transportation just took on 150 tesla tractors..one of the first over the road truck fleets in the nation to do so.
As to the quality and operator acceptance of the machines Im involved with they love electrics, simple, robust, quiet and smooth. From my perspective they are easy to troubleshoot, full computerized diagnostics, plug it in and it tells you what to do. Major repairs are a different story, the one I'm involved with is Italian. I tell my customers its built like a ferrari,if something major happens its not going to be quick or cheap to repair..
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