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04-24-2021, 08:46 AM | #1 |
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Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
I have no idea how dampers are assembled, but I know mine has two pulleys and timing marks on one of them. Are the pulleys permanently mounted to the damper or attached in someway? If attached, is it possible to attach them in the wrong position (so the timing marks are not in the right place in relation to the keyed shaft)?
I ask this because I sent mine out to be rebuilt and was somewhat disappointed they did not refresh the timing marks. It could be because they were almost invisible. I looked very closely and found the marks so I used a triangular file to clean up the marks and added some white paint. After starting a new 292 engine for the first time and rotating the distributor to adjust timing till the engine ran smoothly, the timing light seems to show the advance several inches beyond the timing marks (more advanced). Assuming each mark represents 2 degrees, my timing would be advanced 30-40 degrees. I assume that is not possible and the engine running OK. Is there anything else that could cause the timing marks to be off, like the position of the distributor? |
04-24-2021, 10:15 AM | #2 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Post your question on y-blocksforever.com, or go to eatonbalancing.com and send an email to Ted Eaton. Who rebuilt your dampener?
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04-24-2021, 10:46 AM | #3 | |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
I think there are enough here with the knowledge to help without referring the post to another form ... unbelievable ...
You need to find TRUE TDC and that is done with a PISTON STOP TOOL. Once found, diagnosis is fairly easy. - https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-t...d-center/28657 Quote:
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04-24-2021, 10:50 AM | #4 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
I believe it was Damperdoctor
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04-24-2021, 11:30 AM | #5 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Zuberg, you won't regret following my advice. Ted's the man.
I had my damper rebuilt by Damper Dudes. Although I haven't installed mine yet, it looks great; service and turnaround top notch. Ted has used both Damper Dr. and Damper Dudes, but recommended the latter. Nothing done to enhance timing marks, though. I'm considering timing tape, but probably not necessary in my case. If he's still willing, Tim McMaster will be rebuilding my engine. All of the 55-57 T-bird dampers have a double pulley, even those with manual steering. The pulley is riveted to the damper.I don't know if the rebuilders separate the pulley from the damper. The T-bird damper is not the same as other Y-block dampers and is considerably more valuable. |
04-24-2021, 02:53 PM | #6 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
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04-24-2021, 03:01 PM | #7 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
A fresh rebuilt Y block will run best with about 36 degrees total advance. Try using a vacuum gauge for timing, not a light. That engine with that gas will be right, not a book written 70 years ago.
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04-24-2021, 03:56 PM | #8 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
I'm remembering from a few years ago... the metal sheaves of your pulley were bolted onto the hub for some reason instead of riveted as original.
If this is still the case, and at that time I think we reached the conclusion that the rear-most piece with the timing marks on it was indeed out of position. Photo 1 below. Rear view showing the correct relative position of the pulley hub keyway and the timing marks. . pulley timing marks copy.jpg Bird crank pulley example.jpg Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-24-2021 at 04:12 PM. |
04-24-2021, 04:22 PM | #9 | |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Quote:
DAMN! What a memory... Guess you haven't forgotten about that twenty I owe you ... That explains that .
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04-24-2021, 05:43 PM | #10 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Dang, now that you mention it, I think you may be right. You do have an amazing memory. Now the question is did you notice that before I sent it for rebuild or after? If after, one may hope they would have noticed and fixed it. In fact maybe they would have replaced the bolts with rivets? Since it is already installed on the engine, engine is in the car, and we can tune better with a vacuum gauge, I don’t think I feel like checking.
Current problem is we used a vacuum gauge today and the needle was bouncing all over the place. We assume we have a vacuum leak somewhere but haven’t found it yet. I plan to pick up some starting fluid and spray on obvious fittings and hoses to see if the RPMs increase. |
04-24-2021, 07:38 PM | #11 | ||
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Quote:
Quote:
With any luck... removing the radiator fan, fan shroud, fan belts and the bolts in the crank pulley would let you reassemble the pulley in the correct position, without taking the pulley hub off the crankshaft. Put the engine at Cyl #1 TDC firing position before you take things off, then the timing marks on the pulley should line up with the pointer when you reassemble the pulley in the right place. Looking at the rotor position with the distributor cap off should get you very close to #1 TDC. With the cyl #1 spark plug out you may also be able to feel the top of the piston moving to or past TDC with a finger while slightly turning the crankshaft back & forth with a wrench. . Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-25-2021 at 08:42 PM. |
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04-24-2021, 08:03 PM | #12 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Yes, I have learned where #1 is.
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04-24-2021, 08:20 PM | #13 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
If that came out wrong I'm sorry.
It was meant more as background info for other folks reading this thread later who might not know how to find TDC when the original timing marks are messed up. It can happen much more often on other Y-block pulleys. The timing marks are on the weight ring, that can slip and fall off. Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-24-2021 at 08:38 PM. |
04-25-2021, 08:09 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Timing marks on a Bird are on the pulley, not the ring. Sedans had the marks on the ring
Quote:
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04-25-2021, 08:18 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Quote:
. Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-25-2021 at 08:36 PM. |
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04-25-2021, 08:39 PM | #16 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
You won’t believe the weekend I had, but spoiler alert: we had a happy ending.
We had some challenges with timing the engine which was running very rough. We hooked up a vacuum gauge and the needle was bouncing all over the place so we couldn’t even get a reading. We texted a mechanic friend to ask about possible causes. His answer sounded like there could be some serious causes. So today, we did a compression test on each cylinder. The first one we checked was “0”. The others read around 70-75 (should be 150). Just to be sure we the gauge was working correctly, I borrowed one from my neighbor. His read as high as 140, so I felt much better. Based on input from the mechanic, we speculated some of the valves must be stuck, so we removed the valve covers. I spotted the first problem. The lift rod on the cylinder with zero compression was not inserted correctly and was not moving the valve at all. So we fixed that and adjusted all the valves as some seemed too tight. After we put the valve covers back on, we started the car and nearly every problem appeared to be fixed. We have compression in all cylinders, steady vacuum, the timing light shows the timing right on the timing marks where it belongs and it is running smoother than it ever has. I can’t believe all those problems were solved with just those two issues and so happy it wasn’t something more serious. |
04-25-2021, 10:13 PM | #17 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Zuberg, glad you didn't have to bite the bullet.
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04-25-2021, 11:48 PM | #18 | |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
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***** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...
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04-26-2021, 07:36 AM | #19 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
The push rod was our fault (me and a friend that was experienced with engines). When we were first putting all the other pieces onto the long block, we discovered the block and heads were 1957 or later and the hole for the temp sensor was too small. So we had to remove the head to drill it out and tap the new threads. In putting the head back on, we obviously inserted the rod incorrectly. I agree with you that the rocker lashing should have been done better. Oh well. I did learn more with the experience. One, I don’t wish to have to adjust the valves again. Tedious, time consuming and not fun with cranking the engine by hand with the fan blade still installed.
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04-26-2021, 08:07 AM | #20 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
HEY! No Harm, No Foul.
I a$$-um-ed the engine was completely redone at a machine shop. It is all a learning experience.
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***** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...
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04-26-2021, 08:18 AM | #21 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
It was a remanufactured long block from a company in South Carolina that came highly recommended by a friend. They have very good customer service, but they must have missed this one. As you can tell from some of my posts I am not a mechanic by any means and just use logic in asking some of my questions. I could not have gotten where I am now without help from this forum and my one local friend who has quite a bit of experience (although not with cars as old as mine and he deals mostly with GM cars). He has way more tools than I have including a hoist and everything we needed. He helped me rebuild the entire front suspension while we waited 4 years for my Fordomatic to be rebuilt.
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04-26-2021, 01:38 PM | #22 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
Nah, you seem to be doing alright. A reman long comes with the heads/valve-train installed.
You are saying you had to remove one head to change the size of the coolant temp sender bung? That would explain the bad valve adj then. I think I have it now.
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***** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...
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04-26-2021, 02:47 PM | #23 | |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
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Valve adjustment? You definitely need a clip-on Remote Start Switch and to watch this video. I kept putting this task off for the first time but after doing it, it's actually pretty painless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqG-Q_kVI3s . Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-26-2021 at 02:58 PM. |
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04-26-2021, 04:54 PM | #24 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
We only took one head off but had to adjust valves on both. We removed the entire bar of rockers as one piece and made sure we put the push rods back in the order removed so we didn’t think that would affect the valve adjustment.
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04-26-2021, 05:00 PM | #25 |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
We thought it would be safer to remove it for fear of shavings getting somewhere they didn’t belong. I know you said you ran into the same issue. My friend just wasn’t confident enough to do it your way. I wasn’t going to argue. I already feel like I owe him a bunch of dinners but he would never take me up on it. I at least have helped him install a 700+ hp engine and a rear end (no lift) in his drag car, as well as remove another engine from his daily driver that broke a timing gear, so I’m trying to even things up.
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04-26-2021, 05:40 PM | #26 | |
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Re: Question regarding 1956 T-bird damper details and timing marks
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I've got a distributor that one of the guys in our club wants, so in exchange he's letting me occasionally use his very well equipped shop to put my '57 Bird project in. He and his dad had the car stripped down, to prep for a repaint, one day when I wasn't paying attention. I'll owe them more than a few dinners too. |
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