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Old 08-26-2015, 05:55 AM   #1
Hoogah
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Default Leaky Rad

I'm writing this as I sit next to my A as it goes for a drive in my garage. Well, kind of. Trying to fix an annoying leak in my radiator, which I pulled a few months ago and took to a repair man who soldered it up for me. Didn't last - which he did suggest was a strong possibility given the state of play.
Played my final card with a container of Silver Seal flakes, hence the need to run the car for half an hour or so. Can't go for a real drive due to my driveway being full of building materials for our house Reno!
Things are looking positive, with the drip (was about every 2 seconds) seeming to take up - but it did take about half an hour for this to happen. Fingers crossed.
If I find that this is ultimately unsuccessful, I'm looking at a major bill for a re-core - maybe around $1000. Radiator Repair Man tells me it's pretty much impossible to get an original honeycomb core these days (I'm in Oz).
Who runs a modern style radiator and what do you think of its appearance? I'd be reluctant to go down this path. My car is a survivor, not a trailer queen.
Sitting in the garage and running in the mid rev range, the radiator is doing a good job. Can just see the red in my motometer, about 3/4" up from the bottom, so that's a plus, I guess.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Hoogah,
I have a pretty good '28/'29 radiator here that is superfluous to needs. Maybe of interest?
It is about 5 1/2 fins per inch. I also have a honeycomb one but have no idea how well it cools.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Hoogah,
I have a pretty good '28/'29 radiator here that is superfluous to needs. Maybe of interest?
It is about 5 1/2 fins per inch. I also have a honeycomb one but have no idea how well it cools.
Great to know..thanks! Wouldn't mind a look when I come to/through Melb next. Won't be for a couple of months though - got a trip north coming up for several weeks. I'll give you a hoy. Cheers.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

If the StopLeak won't work, I would give the shop another chance. StopLeak works pretty good, unless it is a big hole. Have faith. jack
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Hoogah, you say you have silver seal flakes ?

I use the red seal up brand from supercheap.

It is for copper/brass.

I had a radiator leaking in many places like a sieve and would also occasionally get hydraulic lock by a bad head gasket.

One bottle of this snake oil 3 years ago and no probs since.

Seal up also comes in sliver but this is for aluminium radiators.

Hope your silver stuff does not say for aluminium too.

What does it say on the bottle?
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooch View Post
Hoogah, you say you have silver seal flakes ?

I use the red seal up brand from supercheap.

It is for copper/brass.

I had a radiator leaking in many places like a sieve and would also occasionally get hydraulic lock by a bad head gasket.

One bottle of this snake oil 3 years ago and no probs since.

Seal up also comes in sliver but this is for aluminium radiators.

Hope your silver stuff does not say for aluminium too.

What does it say on the bottle?
It doesn't specify, but I did ask the question and was assured that it is not specifically for aluminium radiators. It comes in a small tube not much bigger than your index finger. Touch wood!
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

sodium silicate (water Glass) is the best stuff for sealing cracked blocks, heads, head gaskets and radiators, BUT FOLLOW THE DIRECTIOND EXACTLY, it works by the sealer coming into contact with air and heat, MAKE SURE ALL RADIATOR TUBES ARE COVERED WITH WATER, this stuff has been used for 50 years or more to seal cracks in the flat head blocks, it really works, most parts stores carry it in a glass jar and it contains ground copper to help seal bigger leaks
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:14 AM   #8
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Update on my attempted Silver Seal radiator repair. The leak initially appeared to take up but has started dripping again. Perhaps of more concern is that the engine overheated on a couple of short drives since doing this, suggesting that I may have unintentionally managed to plug some internal waterways by using this product? It was not hot weather or hilly, and the car has no recent history of overheating, even on longer runs (60 miles).

So, where to now? I'm thinking that I should just swap the core out for a new one, and be done with it? The current core was a replacement manufactured by Newcell (name may be familiar to Aussies on the forum), the point being that I haven't found any evidence of this company's existence since the late '40s, making this core maybe 60+ years old. I know that flow rate isn't the ultimate test, but when I've performed this test the radiator took way longer to drain than the 4-5 sec benchmarks I found on YouTube for a good radiator (I didn't measure the volume of water in my radiator either).


If so, what specs should I be looking for in a new core, if I'm wishing to preserve an "original" appearance as far as possible for my 28-29 car?
- 3 row?
- what row spacing?
- what fin spacing (it will be horizontal fins)? Did 28-29 models have 10 fins per inch like the 30-31 (I think)?

Do the judging standards provide guidance? I don't own a copy.

Also, if I go down this path, should I do a "vinegar" clean of the cooling system before removing the radiator to ensure that I remove any rust and/or grease etc from the engine water jacket and therefore ensure that my new core is not immediately fouled with this residual?

So many questions! Thanks for your input.

Last edited by Hoogah; 10-14-2015 at 07:39 AM. Reason: More info added.
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

dont get to excited, you really wont know what is happening till you can get the car out on the road for a good drive, give the sealler a chance to work, but if needed to have rad flushed, put a air jet nozzle along with a water hose sealed in the top rad hose with the bottom hose off, turn air and water on full blast to create a lot of turbulance to knock loose any thing that might be plugging engine water passages and rad cores, they sell a tool at parts stores that is rubber and plugs into the engine water neck to mace back flushing the engine easier
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Hoogah, get in touch with Synchro, if the offer of the rad is still on, I can drop in and pick it up in a couple of weeks and see you at Bendigo .

Will be around Synchro's way on nov 2.

Also, don't get confused with suspected overheating by water getting thrown out filler neck. you have probably filled the level right up when using the snake oil additive, and it is the normal leveling out at just covering the core where they like to run.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooch View Post
Hoogah, get in touch with Synchro, if the offer of the rad is still on, I can drop in and pick it up in a couple of weeks and see you at Bendigo .

Will be around Synchro's way on nov 2.

Also, don't get confused with suspected overheating by water getting thrown out filler neck. you have probably filled the level right up when using the snake oil additive, and it is the normal leveling out at just covering the core where they like to run.
Thanks for the offer Pooch. I'm still weighing my options but will be in touch.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoast View Post
dont get to excited, you really wont know what is happening till you can get the car out on the road for a good drive, give the sealler a chance to work. . . .
Thanks West Coast. How long should I give the sealer before I decide that it hasn't worked? The instructions say that sealing occurs within 10 minutes.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

i am sure you read some of the posts about the possible consequences of vinegaring then installing a new rad

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 10-14-2015 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:57 PM   #14
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i had to drive my p/u about an hour before it quit leaking
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Without driving the car to get good heat and circulation and the gunk maybe in paste form, maybe it has not done the job properly.

A car does not usually get hot in the right places when just idlng away.

The red seal up is liquid in a bottle, so is already dissolved,

I just flush the rad out good, fill it with clean water, add the snake oil and go for a good drive.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:16 AM   #16
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Silver seal comes in a little tube and is in the form of very small flakes. I'll go for a big drive on the weekend to see if I can get this sucker to stop leaking.

And thanks for the vinegar reminder, Mitch!
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Old 10-15-2015, 02:28 AM   #17
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You could try contacting Greg at FTRS

http://www.ftrs.com.au

they probably have the original equipment for making honeycomb radiators.
He will probably tell you just to buy a new one instead of using old tanks.

I thought with a honeycomb radiator you just plug the hex hole like the bees do and carry on?

There's Aussie Desert Coolers for re-coring. They said theirs cool 30% better than original. Don't know how they turn out.

Mine was re-cored years ago, bought second hand, doesn't fit the shell too well.

A new core with lots of fins should block the view of the tubes ...
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

What is a honeycomb radiator re model A ?

( I know what they are , just what is not applicable to an A )

I think chevs/ plymouths had them, but never seen anything but a round tube finned one for a 28 A .
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Moroso 35500 Ceramic Engine Seal - 1 Pint ...
best i ever used just be sure to follow directions
had to use every year after freshening race motor to seal the head studs
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:56 AM   #20
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Hoogah, is it just one tube that's leaking?
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Kinda related question to this thread. How much water should a 30-31 radiator hold if one plugged the bottom outlet and filled the radiator? Not counting the water that is in the block. The radiator is currently off the car.
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:37 PM   #22
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Did they use "honeycomb" radiators in Model A's in Australia? The factory didn't use them in the US.

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Old 10-15-2015, 02:02 PM   #23
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Honeycomb radiators are VERY efficient, IF they are CLEAN & FLOW well.
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Old 10-15-2015, 03:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooch View Post
What is a honeycomb radiator re model A ?

( I know what they are , just what is not applicable to an A )

I think chevs/ plymouths had them, but never seen anything but a round tube finned one for a 28 A .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens View Post
Did they use "honeycomb" radiators in Model A's in Australia? The factory didn't use them in the US.

Charlie Stephens
My radiator shop man called my radiator "honeycomb", but it's not what I call a honeycomb radiator. I'll post a picture as soon as I can get access to them (I'm on my iPad just now).
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:01 PM   #25
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Hoogah, is it just one tube that's leaking?
.

I think so. See what you reckon when I post the photo.
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Old 10-15-2015, 04:06 PM   #26
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Hoogah, I have seen your radiator, and it is not honeycomb.

Is it an original round tube or a recored flat tube one ?

Aussie desert coolers make copper/brass rads for A/s and is at Bendigo each year.

I think they are a bit below $800 .
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Leaky Rad

Here's a photo of the offending leak, also showing the radiator structure. It's a Newcell re-core, possibly 60+ years old, as I can't find evidence of this company's existence forward of the late 1940s.

The radiator doesn't have flat fins, hence I think why my rad shop man described it as honeycomb, which was confusing to me. But that's a side issue!!

These photos were taken before my rad shop man made his (unsuccessful) attempt to solder the leaks. The ongoing leak at the bottom appears to me to be confined to one tube?

The other leaks indicated by staining under the top outlet and near the Newcell tag have taken up and are no longer an issue.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1060930(30%).jpg (50.1 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg P1060931(30%).jpg (51.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg P1060919.jpg (89.7 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg P1060929(25%).jpg (47.6 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by Hoogah; 10-15-2015 at 08:07 PM. Reason: typo corrected
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:22 PM   #28
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I suppose after 60 years we all get a bit leaky.......
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:23 PM   #29
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I suppose after 60 years we all get a bit leaky.......
Hadn't considered Mitch's Depends solution!
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:34 PM   #30
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I believe that leak can be repaired. It likely would require some cutting out of the fins and pinching off the tube. If the resulting appearance doesn't bother you it's a fairly inexpensive job. I had a similar repair done to mine.
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:39 PM   #31
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I believe that leak can be repaired. It likely would require some cutting out of the fins and pinching off the tube. If the resulting appearance doesn't bother you it's a fairly inexpensive job. I had a similar repair done to mine.
Thanks, CT AV8! I'm keen for more detail. Is this something I could do at home? What does pinching off the tube entail?

I have had another suggestion that entails also cutting out fins and patching with silicone smeared on a small piece of cotton cloth.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:06 PM   #32
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It's not something you should try at home. The repair area has to be thoroughly cleaned or else the solder will not take. Rad shops have big tanks to bathe the rad. Mine has the typical horizontal fins not the cellular shaped ones as yours, but they would open up the cell above and below the leak. In your case, judging by the pic, it may actually be at the bottom tank. Then they cut the tube at the leak and flatten it with needle nose and solder it shut. Silicone, jb weld, crazy glue, epoxy stuff will not work regardless of what the label says. If the guy you used can't do it, look for a shop that works on trucks or farm tractors.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:15 PM   #33
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Hoogah can you post a pic of what the rad shop guy did?

Like, did he cut fins away to get to it ?

The only way I have ever successfully soldered copper or brass is to sandblast it first.

Very thin metal can maybe be soldered by an iron and resin solder.

If this does not take perfectly, sandblast it again and try some stick solder and hydrochloric acid and a flame .

You can always make some replacement fins out of very thin copper or brass plate and push it back into place to match the rest.

A coat of black and you would never notice the repair.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:21 PM   #34
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Hoogah can you post a pic of what the rad shop guy did?

Like, did he cut fins away to get to it ?

The only way I have ever successfully soldered copper or brass is to sandblast it first.

Very thin metal can maybe be soldered by an iron and resin solder.

If this does not take perfectly, sandblast it again and try some stick solder and hydrochloric acid and a flame .

You can always make some replacement fins out of very thin copper or brass plate and push it back into place to match the rest.

A coat of black and you would never notice the repair.
I don't have a pic of the repair and the rad is back in the car. The leak area is hard to photograph sitting down behind the shroud.

The rad repair man tried to seal it up without removing any fins. I could talk to him about removing fins and resoldering/pinching off the tube, as I reckon this area will be hidden by the radiator surround when viewed from the front.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:43 PM   #35
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That's a new type core. If you run the back of your finger nail very lightly down the fins and they all collapse then they are stuffed.

Aussie Desert I think said A$450 for a core. Not sure if this included installation.
If you could find someone local to install a core, then they can fix it if it doesn't work right.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:45 PM   #36
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If your radiator man called this a honeycomb radiator I would worry about the quality of his work. Buy him a jar of honey with the honeycomb in it.

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Old 10-15-2015, 10:58 PM   #37
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If your radiator man called this a honeycomb radiator I would worry about the quality of his work. Buy him a jar of honey with the honeycomb in it.

Charlie Stephens
I'll let you know how it goes!!
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:35 PM   #38
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yep not a honeycomb.....
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:14 PM   #39
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There's been SO MANY fin designs over the years. ALASKA RADIATORS once had fins that made the air go through the radiator on a 45 degree angle, for MAXIMUM distance travel & to dissipate more HEAT.
Lots of Model A problems can be avoided by BACK FLUSHING, once or twice a year. Flakes from the head & block, are a FOREVER problem.
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by updraught View Post
You could try contacting Greg at FTRS

http://www.ftrs.com.au

they probably have the original equipment for making honeycomb radiators.
He will probably tell you just to buy a new one instead of using old tanks.

I thought with a honeycomb radiator you just plug the hex hole like the bees do and carry on?

There's Aussie Desert Coolers for re-coring. They said theirs cool 30% better than original. Don't know how they turn out.

Mine was re-cored years ago, bought second hand, doesn't fit the shell too well.

A new core with lots of fins should block the view of the tubes ...
I once "plugged" a leaking hex hole, by taping waxed paper under the core & filling the hex hole with 2 part RESIN.
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Old 10-16-2015, 03:10 PM   #41
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Bill, maybe you could have enticed a bee to make a hive in the leaky hex hole.

Fix the leak and have free honey .....
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