The Ford Barn

[email protected] · 09-29-2018, 05:37 PM

Hi again folks. Jim here in Orrington Maine. My 37 Ford pickup came to me with an 8ba engine. It runs great but has a weak stomach. When running over 45 mph she warms up to 180 and pukes out the rad cap until it gets to 3 quarts low on antifreeze and stays there and doesn't get any hotter. There is no overflow tube on the radiator. There are no thermostats. The rad is clean and has great flow. Is this normal? I have driven it at 50 for a 200 mile tour and it never over heated. Outside temp was 75. What do I need to do?

JSeery · 09-29-2018, 06:17 PM

180 to 190 (even 195) is a good operating temperature for a flathead. It is common for these type of radiators to spit fluid until it reaches a level it likes. I am not familiar with radiators without overflow tubes. But it sounds like it is running fine to me.

GM here on the Barn has a fix if you want to run the fluid higher in the radiator. I see no reason for it, but it is something you can do. But a far as I know it requires an overflow tub to work.

rotorwrench · 09-29-2018, 06:19 PM

Ford didn't pressurize systems till 1941. It should have an overflow tube somewhere. The cap usually only has a rubber seal with no way to overpressure other than blowing it out the overflow if it still has a 1937 commercial radiator. Maybe someone with 37 commercial experience can relate more info.

34fordy · 09-29-2018, 07:52 PM

I experienced similar overflow in my 21 stud with newer water pumps and no thermostats. I believe the flow was greater than my radiator could accommodate. I installed thermostats only to slow the flow. Has not spit a drop in 3 years.

G.M. · 09-30-2018, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Hi again folks. Jim here in Orrington Maine. My 37 Ford pickup came to me with an 8ba engine. It runs great but has a weak stomach. When running over 45 mph she warms up to 180 and pukes out the rad cap until it gets to 3 quarts low on antifreeze and stays there and doesn't get any hotter. There is no overflow tube on the radiator. There are no thermostats. The rad is clean and has great flow. Is this normal? I have driven it at 50 for a 200 mile tour and it never over heated. Outside temp was 75. What do I need to do?

Hi Jim, The radiator and engine was designed to run with 22 quarts or a full radiator filled up to the filler neck. Anything less will amount to running hot,
the lower the water the hotter it will run. Thermostats do nothing to cool an
engine, only make it run at or above the stats temperature ratting. You have two problems, the resistance of 144 radiator tubes, length of them and maybe a little dirt in them. The stock pumps each deliver about 65 gallons per minute of coolant through the system. But this is reduced by the back pressure from the radiator. The solution is better pump pressure with more flow capacity. Skips pumps deliver 110 gallons per minute each at a higher pressure. The close tolerance and larger streamlined impellers in the head mounted pumps and the new turbine impellers in the 37 to 53 allow every
pump Skip modifies to produce the exact same flow and pressure. Every pump is tested for at least 5 minutes on a water pump test machine and recorded in a log book. Also in over 10,000 pumps NO ONE has ever had
to pay for repairs. Now due to the radiator restriction the coolant has to be FORCED through the system and in order to do this you need a WORKING pressure cap or a tight sealing stock cap and Skips 3 lb pressure valve. A pressure cap is best but the 3 lb valve which must be removed at least once
a year and back flushed with a hose is the other way. The 3 lb valve holds the normal temperature pressure but opens as a safety valve is pressure is over 3.5 lbs due to over heating above 210 or a compression leak into the
coolant. People using the valve have reported not loosing or adding coolant
in over a year. G.M.

[email protected] · 10-01-2018, 05:31 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I'll try the 180 Tstats and see what happens. Thank you all so much. I'll let yo know how things work out, Time to heater hunt birds in Maine and I would like to used the truck. I did as a kid 60 years ago this year.

revkev6 · 10-02-2018, 09:51 AM

in my roadster with a 32 radiator and an 8ba I run a 7psi cap and thermostats. it's what the 8ba was designed for. the higher pressure helps lower the formation of steam/hot spots in the block too. even still, if I fill the radiator to the top it pushes out a quart or two. this is normal.... they find their own level. modern systems have a recovery tank that allows this fluid to be pulled back into the radiator when it cools. hot fluid expands... cool fluid contracts. if you leave it "low" and it doesn't overheat or continue to puke fluid, leave it. i've been running my roadster that way for 25 years.

G.M. · 10-02-2018, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revkev6

in my roadster with a 32 radiator and an 8ba I run a 7psi cap and thermostats. it's what the 8ba was designed for. the higher pressure helps lower the formation of steam/hot spots in the block too. even still, if I fill the radiator to the top it pushes out a quart or two. this is normal.... they find their own level. modern systems have a recovery tank that allows this fluid to be pulled back into the radiator when it cools. hot fluid expands... cool fluid contracts. if you leave it "low" and it doesn't overheat or continue to puke fluid, leave it. i've been running my roadster that way for 25 years.

Read my post above, you have a problem and don't know it. G.M.

4t8v8 · 10-02-2018, 03:48 PM

Been running my 8BA with stock water pumps, fan shroud, 160 therms, coolant recovery tank and no pressure since 1950 without a single problem. On 80 degree and less days it runs at 160. 90 plus days it runs 180. It has gotten up to nearly 200 on very hot days on a long pull with a heavy load. Been doing this for 70 years and will probably keep doing it.

V12Bill · 10-03-2018, 10:29 AM

This post comes up about once a month. No one takes into account that when you heat water, it expands. If there was too much water in the system, it will spew out the over flow. If you keep adding water it will continue to spew out the over flow. Fill to radiator cap run it and forget that it spewed water out the over flow, or fill the radiator to about 1/2" over the radiator tubes. When it heats up it will not spew out the over flow.

revkev6 · 10-03-2018, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.M.

Read my post above, you have a problem and don't know it. G.M.

I did read it, sorry but I disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V12Bill

This post comes up about once a month. No one takes into account that when you heat water, it expands. If there was too much water in the system, it will spew out the over flow. If you keep adding water it will continue to spew out the over flow. Fill to radiator cap run it and forget that it spewed water out the over flow, or fill the radiator to about 1/2" over the radiator tubes. When it heats up it will not spew out the over flow.

exactly. the thermal expansion of water from 60-185 degrees in 22 quarts of water is roughly 6 quarts... guess where that water is going to go!

tubman · 10-03-2018, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revkev6

exactly. the thermal expansion of water from 60-185 degrees in 22 quarts of water is roughly 6 quarts... guess where that water is going to go!

Talk about disagreeing. The coefficient of expansion of water is .00012 per degree Fahrenheit. 125 *.00012 is .015. .015*22 is .33.

Or am I completely misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

revkev6 · 10-03-2018, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Talk about disagreeing. The coefficient of expansion of water is .00012 per degree Fahrenheit. 125 *.00012 is .015. .015*22 is .33.

Or am I completely misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

interesting.. google said it's .0003-.0005 depending....

estout81 · 10-03-2018, 12:34 PM

Read Machinery's Handbook on volume of water at different temperatures.

tubman · 10-03-2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revkev6

interesting.. google said it's .0003-.0005 depending....

That's the coefficient of expansion per degree centigrade which is about the same. Water expands at different rates depending on it's temperature, but the variation is insignificant with what we're discussing here.

estout81 · 10-03-2018, 02:52 PM

If you do the math according to Machinery's Handbook in deg. F, it works out to .66594 Qt. going from 72-185 degrees F.

Ol' Ron · 10-03-2018, 03:06 PM

I go with GM, I haven't used any of skips pumps, but several of my customers have. And they work quite well. Building a race motor for the track, and am considering using skips pumps, but dint;t have any budget for them yet. Still building the car and engine.

tubman · 10-03-2018, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estout81

If you do the math according to Machinery's Handbook in deg. F, it works out to .66594 Qt. going from 72-185 degrees F.

I get about half that; are you sure that you're not using the Centigrade cf rather than the Fahrenhiet cf? If that's what happened, the figures makes sense. In any event, the expansion is just a little more than a quart. Sounds about right to me.

(You guys have to learn to read those "Google" post with a little more comprehension.)

G.M. · 10-03-2018, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

I get about half that; are you sure that you're not using the Centigrade cf rather than the Fahrenhiet cf? If that's what happened, the figures makes sense. In any event, the expansion is just a little more than a quart. Sounds about right to me.

(You guys have to learn to read those "Google" post with a little more comprehension.)

On a closed system filled to the just below the filler neck the size and
length of the hoses will take up the expansion. G.M.

[email protected] · 11-25-2018, 05:08 PM

THANK YOU ALL. I had the radiator rebuilt and put in new 160 t-stats. Works perfect. Was getting cool in the Bangor, Maine area so I installed a Westwind heater. AAHHHhhh. Very nice. I can keep driving till they put the crap on the roads to melt the SNOW. I put it away today Nov.25. Wow nice. Thank you all again.

09-29-2018, 05:37 PM	#1
[email protected] Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: orrington, maine Posts: 89	8ba weak stomach Hi again folks. Jim here in Orrington Maine. My 37 Ford pickup came to me with an 8ba engine. It runs great but has a weak stomach. When running over 45 mph she warms up to 180 and pukes out the rad cap until it gets to 3 quarts low on antifreeze and stays there and doesn't get any hotter. There is no overflow tube on the radiator. There are no thermostats. The rad is clean and has great flow. Is this normal? I have driven it at 50 for a 200 mile tour and it never over heated. Outside temp was 75. What do I need to do?

09-29-2018, 06:17 PM	#2
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 8ba weak stomach 180 to 190 (even 195) is a good operating temperature for a flathead. It is common for these type of radiators to spit fluid until it reaches a level it likes. I am not familiar with radiators without overflow tubes. But it sounds like it is running fine to me. GM here on the Barn has a fix if you want to run the fluid higher in the radiator. I see no reason for it, but it is something you can do. But a far as I know it requires an overflow tub to work.

09-29-2018, 06:19 PM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 8ba weak stomach Ford didn't pressurize systems till 1941. It should have an overflow tube somewhere. The cap usually only has a rubber seal with no way to overpressure other than blowing it out the overflow if it still has a 1937 commercial radiator. Maybe someone with 37 commercial experience can relate more info.

09-29-2018, 07:52 PM	#4
34fordy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Fort dodge, Iowa Posts: 821	Re: 8ba weak stomach I experienced similar overflow in my 21 stud with newer water pumps and no thermostats. I believe the flow was greater than my radiator could accommodate. I installed thermostats only to slow the flow. Has not spit a drop in 3 years.

10-01-2018, 05:31 PM	#6
[email protected] Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: orrington, maine Posts: 89	Re: 8ba weak stomach Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'll try the 180 Tstats and see what happens. Thank you all so much. I'll let yo know how things work out, Time to heater hunt birds in Maine and I would like to used the truck. I did as a kid 60 years ago this year.

10-02-2018, 09:51 AM	#7
revkev6 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: western Mass Posts: 365	Re: 8ba weak stomach in my roadster with a 32 radiator and an 8ba I run a 7psi cap and thermostats. it's what the 8ba was designed for. the higher pressure helps lower the formation of steam/hot spots in the block too. even still, if I fill the radiator to the top it pushes out a quart or two. this is normal.... they find their own level. modern systems have a recovery tank that allows this fluid to be pulled back into the radiator when it cools. hot fluid expands... cool fluid contracts. if you leave it "low" and it doesn't overheat or continue to puke fluid, leave it. i've been running my roadster that way for 25 years.

10-02-2018, 03:48 PM	#9
4t8v8 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 524	Re: 8ba weak stomach Been running my 8BA with stock water pumps, fan shroud, 160 therms, coolant recovery tank and no pressure since 1950 without a single problem. On 80 degree and less days it runs at 160. 90 plus days it runs 180. It has gotten up to nearly 200 on very hot days on a long pull with a heavy load. Been doing this for 70 years and will probably keep doing it.

10-03-2018, 10:29 AM	#10
V12Bill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mt. Holly,NJ Posts: 1,822	Re: 8ba weak stomach This post comes up about once a month. No one takes into account that when you heat water, it expands. If there was too much water in the system, it will spew out the over flow. If you keep adding water it will continue to spew out the over flow. Fill to radiator cap run it and forget that it spewed water out the over flow, or fill the radiator to about 1/2" over the radiator tubes. When it heats up it will not spew out the over flow.

10-03-2018, 12:34 PM	#14
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: 8ba weak stomach Read Machinery's Handbook on volume of water at different temperatures.

10-03-2018, 02:52 PM	#16
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: 8ba weak stomach If you do the math according to Machinery's Handbook in deg. F, it works out to .66594 Qt. going from 72-185 degrees F.

10-03-2018, 03:06 PM	#17
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: 8ba weak stomach I go with GM, I haven't used any of skips pumps, but several of my customers have. And they work quite well. Building a race motor for the track, and am considering using skips pumps, but dint;t have any budget for them yet. Still building the car and engine.

11-25-2018, 05:08 PM	#20
[email protected] Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: orrington, maine Posts: 89	Re: 8ba weak stomach THANK YOU ALL. I had the radiator rebuilt and put in new 160 t-stats. Works perfect. Was getting cool in the Bangor, Maine area so I installed a Westwind heater. AAHHHhhh. Very nice. I can keep driving till they put the crap on the roads to melt the SNOW. I put it away today Nov.25. Wow nice. Thank you all again.