Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2016, 10:27 AM   #1
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

I recently bought a 40 axle, and it turned out to need a new bearing surface on the one side. I weighed up the alternatives and decided to try and do it myself. I have a new (to me) lathe, a Willson slantbed. Now the good thing about the Willson, is that it will swing a good big diameter compared to other machines of the same footprint. I also managed to snag the long bed model which, I thought ought to be able to take any job I can throw at it.

Sooo. I bought a replacement bushing, and took some rudimentary measurements to see if the casing would fit in the lathe. I was really disappointed to find that despite my expectations of my new lathe, the casing wouldn't go in.

Anyway, here are a few pics to show what I did.

I propped the axle up against the workmate and pulled the left hand side casing.


In the background you can see what you have to do to fit two projects into a single vehicle space.

I fitted the faceplate to the lathe and made up an adaptor. The adaptor was a good excuse for me to machine some tapers. Morse taper 5 on the headstock end, and a taper to match the inside of the bearing race on the other end. The bolt transfers the drive to the casing flange.



That allowed me to fit the axle casing between centres. The long bed lathe made it possible, the standard length wouldn't have done it.



But there's a problem.

It won't swing. The spring perch is fouling the inner bedway, the one the tailstock slides on.

After some deliberation, I decided what to do. Break out the oxy.


Two foot of good quality extension bar and a bit of a heave got it bent far enough to clear.


Just a mm or so is enough.


So I was able to start machining. I got it down to within 9 thou of what I was aiming for and decided to leave it at that and carry on when fresh the next evening.
Came back to it and snuck up on it (machinist talk) and managed to get the size exactly as I wanted it. 1 thou over the size of the bush.

Finish was ok. Good even.


So.. To the press!

The casing just about fitted..


Almost! I couldn't get the ram quite high enough and had to cheat the top beam up by one bolt pitch.


Anyway, I got it pressed on nice and snug. The finished job looks good and serviceable


I then reversed the heat and bend operation. In fact the pics posted above were after the restraightening.

So that's it. Now the decision needs to be made, do I put it back together? Or do I pull it down further and swap the 4.11s out for a set of 3.78s?

Well, that's a choice for another day.

The clearance problem is only with the 37-48 casings. If it were a 32-34 with the shorter spring mounts, or obviously a 35-36 or an A, they would have fitted no problem.

Here's a link to a short video I posted on Youtube. Listen to my accent. Think of Ozzie Osbourne without the slurring.

https://youtu.be/sk42aYMYKyk

I was pleased to be able to do the job "in house" with my modest equipment. If I were doing it again I might do it slightly different but for an amateur I am happy the axle is now serviceable.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 10:44 AM   #2
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,873
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Mart, You have just shown that necessity is the mother of invention.
Nice work, although the heat and bend operation will cause some nervousness in others.
Love your lathe.

Last edited by 19Fordy; 09-17-2016 at 10:54 AM.
19Fordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-17-2016, 11:05 AM   #3
RalphM
Senior Member
 
RalphM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 2,646
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Very nice!
Heating the spring perch is no different than heating and bending a pitman arm, or steering arms on a 37-41 spindle, hot rodders have been doing it for decades.
RalphM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 12:06 PM   #4
Bob/Ohio
Senior Member
 
Bob/Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: N.E.Ohio
Posts: 222
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Nice job on the repair, good as new again!

Bob
Bob/Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:04 PM   #5
Kahuna
Senior Member
 
Kahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,617
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Mart
You very talented guys make me feel insecure. I wish I had the talent to do that.
Great job, congrats
Jim
Kahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:11 PM   #6
Capt Kirk
Senior Member
 
Capt Kirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Clarkston MI
Posts: 830
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Great job but I cringed a bit when I saw the bending of the spring perch. I'm sure it'll be fine but I couldn't do it. Bending back and forth...it's just me.
__________________
35 Ford Cabriolet
56 Chevy Pickup
63 VW Bug
Empty wallet
Capt Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 08:48 PM   #7
PeteVS
Senior Member
 
PeteVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FP, NJ
Posts: 2,769
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

I'm assuming you had to anneal the bearing surface before you were able to turn it down?
__________________
Don't never get rid of nuthin!
PeteVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 09:04 PM   #8
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 3,505
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

I don't understand why they make the sleeve so thick. You have to cut so much more off to use them. You would think it weakens that area. Never heard of one failing though. Great to have a lathe big enough for a job like that.
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 09:33 PM   #9
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Kirk View Post
Great job but I cringed a bit when I saw the bending of the spring perch. I'm sure it'll be fine but I couldn't do it. Bending back and forth...it's just me.
Ok now, think about this a little bit. Where do you think dropped axles come from? Dropped spindles? Dropped steering arms? Etc. This process is as old as Hot Rodding.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016, 10:23 PM   #10
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 10,856
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Good tech post Mart. I like seeing these kind of posts here. Now we all know where to send our axle housings for that repair .
I have recently taken a '40 rear apart, and thought it might be beneficial to some here if I did a little tech post showing details in pictures of the things I have found wrong and in need of repair, if I was planning to put this rear back in service
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 03:16 AM   #11
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Thanks for the comments, Guys.

PeteVS: No, Mate, I used a tool with an indexable carbide tip. It ploughed through the hard part no problem. The first cuts produced a mirror like finish due to the hardness.

All: re the bending; If there were another way to have done it, I would have. I looked at setting the tailstock over and using taper turning techniques to do it, but I dismissed that as a bad idea. The tailstock wouldn't go over far enough anyway. I thought of raising both headstock and tailstock, but that was too much work and would have seriously compromised the rigidity of the machine. Cutting a chunk out of the bedway was another option, but I like my machine too much to do that. I thought of cutting the end off the perch and welding it back on after. Naaah. didn't fancy doing that. I have heated and bent steering arms and have a heated and bent dropped axle. I have also heated and bent front perches for correct alignment. I have utmost respect for Henry's metallurgy, and while if there was another way, I would do it, heating and bending is sometimes unavoidable.

Of course the other option would have been to send it out. Well, where's the fun in that? I have in the last year took up home machining as a second hobby, and being able to use my second hobby to assist my first hobby (fixing old Fords) gave me a warm feeling, somehow justifying the expense of the machinery.

Mart.

Last edited by Mart; 09-19-2016 at 06:46 AM.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:12 AM   #12
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Damn good stuff Mart. I definitely have lathe envy! Is he big enough to spin a flywheel?
I'm quite impressed that You could cut the bearing surface with a carbide tool, that's some pretty hard stuff.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 06:15 AM   #13
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
I don't understand why they make the sleeve so thick. You have to cut so much more off to use them. You would think it weakens that area. Never heard of one failing though. Great to have a lathe big enough for a job like that.
Some of the axle casings I've seen needed that thickness of sleeve to get a fully round seat with the repair sleeve.
There's still plenty of meat left on the end for strength.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 07:38 AM   #14
dwick01
Senior Member
 
dwick01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wellington, Kansas
Posts: 444
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

You are amazing! Great work, and thanks for sharing.
dwick01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 07:43 AM   #15
JWL
Member Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia
Posts: 2,204
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Your job makes me curious about the Rockwell variances. I usually rough the housing journal in the big lathe and follow in the crankshaft grinder. I remember the last set I did the lathe could not hold a .005 tolerance and certainly not .001. Journal was just too hard for lathe cuts to be reliable. I thought about trying a ceramic insert but never got around to that.

Anyway, I admire your perseverance and love the thought of justifying tool costs because they are necessary to support my hobby.
JWL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 10:48 AM   #16
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Martin: Yes, it will swing a flywheel, haven't tried it yet, but the faceplate is 16", it will swing a little more than that, and a quick check with a tape measure on a flywheel shows it's about 14" plus maybe a little bit, so it should swing it easily.

JWL: It is amazing what these modern inserts will do. The hardness only extends so far. the last 1/4" or so of the cut was a lot easier than the part the bearing had been rolling on. I'm talking linearly, not radially. The last part of coming to size was easy turning, none of the real hard stuff remained.

The finished size was 1.7515 to 1.752 I measured the bore of the bush at 1.751.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 09:48 AM   #17
Frank Miller
Senior Member
 
Frank Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 2,106
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

The one item you may have missed is checking to make sure you're concentric with the brake shoes. I have heard that in Model As the center hole in the housing is not necessarily centered with the ring where the backing plate mounts. Sometimes the axles needs to be shimmed on the center to get the bearing correctly oriented with that.
__________________
“The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound
Frank Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 11:25 AM   #18
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

No, Frank, I must admit I didn't look for that. This is the first time I have done the job. The first cuts were a little uneven, but I put that down to the wear and the galling on the underside. Once the cut got past the bearing part into the area the seal runs on it was pretty consistent.

Either I lucked out or the later axles are truer than the model As.

If it were a little out, I'm sure the adjustability of the brake shoes would allow them to centre up ok.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 02:34 PM   #19
FlatheadTed
Senior Member
 
FlatheadTed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland
Posts: 4,691
Send a message via AIM to FlatheadTed
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Nice job Mart ,I need to do this my self but fortunly my lath has a removable bed section . I am working on just using modern bearings though .I will post something if its successful .Ted,
__________________
http://www.flatheadted.com


Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

Last edited by FlatheadTed; 09-19-2016 at 03:18 PM.
FlatheadTed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 05:24 PM   #20
meric42
Senior Member
 
meric42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Blenheim, New Zealand
Posts: 869
Default Re: Tech: Rear axle bearing sleeve replacement. My efforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatheadTed View Post
Nice job Mart ,I need to do this my self but fortunly my lath has a removable bed section . I am working on just using modern bearings though .I will post something if its successful .Ted,
Hi Ted,

I have already done this mod twice and found it to be a very successful update to replace the old roller bearing arrangement.

Cheers, Meric.
__________________
I need an 01A 1453 Brkt Spare wheel hold down for my sedan delivery - PLEASE HELP

Gotta love my '42 Sedan Delivery's - Now that I own the only two in New Zealand

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=580
meric42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:44 PM.