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Old 12-03-2017, 06:46 AM   #1
Sanddoc
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Default Ardun Heads

Does anyone know or understand why Ford did not continue
with the Ardun heads?
I have not found any info on the net so far
Best
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Quite a bit of Ardun history here:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...6829&showall=1
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:53 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanddoc View Post
Does anyone know or understand why Ford did not continue
with the Ardun heads?
I have not found any info on the net so far
Best
I doubt Ford had any interest in or connection with the ARDUN heads. There would be no practical reason to do so. The flathead was well outdated by then (1947), with its small bore and long stroke, three main bearing design. Cars were becoming heavier and trucks bigger. It made more sense for car companies to just design engines with more cubic inches (like the 337 Lincoln/truck engine) than go the expense of adapting an unproven, unreliable, complicated aftermarket setup.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Please remember both Chrysler and Ford used hemi combustion chambers in WWII aircraft engines. Since England received the majority of the Ford result, called the GAA tank engine, there is a chance Duntov saw those chambers during the war. The GAA engine was far advanced for the time, some can see parts if the design well in to the 1970's.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

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Please remember both Chrysler and Ford used hemi combustion chambers in WWII aircraft engines. Since England received the majority of the Ford result, called the GAA tank engine, there is a chance Duntov saw those chambers during the war. The GAA engine was far advanced for the time, some can see parts if the design well in to the 1970's.
Plus Chrysler had an experimental hemi head running on their flathead six around 1946 or '47 so it's doubtful that they copied Duntov's design. Their first hemi V8 came out in the fall of 1950, so with the amount of lead time needed, they must have had their design done before the ARDUN came out.
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Old 12-03-2017, 03:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

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Having had a lot of personal experience with trucks in my own business, I would say that Ford Motor saw no need for a larger engine than what they were producing in their basically light duty truck line. Ford and Chrysler preferred to stick with the light duty market that they had built a nitch in since the early '30's, building nothing bigger than 2 ton trucks whereas GM had it's GMC line for large trucks.
Ford did not enter the large truck market until '48 when they redesigned their entire truck lineup, coming out with the BIG Job F800's with the big Lincoln V8, making them trucks in lieu of glorified cars.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanddoc View Post
Does anyone know or understand why Ford did not continue
with the Ardun heads?
I have not found any info on the net so far
Best
Very simple answer Ford could not continue on something they never tried. The ARDUN conversion was designed in 1947 by George Kudash who was employed by the ARDUN Engine Co.
However there was no need to even consider the ARDUN conversion due to the fact the larger Lincoln Flathead solved the problem of more power and torque needed in the larger Ford trucks being built at the time.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Timing as they say, is everything. The C&T Ardun was really coming into its own right about the time that the flatheads were being overtaken by the growing number of overhead-valve engines coming from the OEs. The flathead faithful were still out there, as were the Ardun heads, but the heads became even scarcer.

To convert today with the new Ardun kit is $14K just for the parts with you supplying your own Flatty.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:51 PM   #9
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http://www.hotrod.com/articles/moder...-don-ferguson/
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Some very good responses. In my own reading the need for more power came from
the English market and the "trash truck" Fords engine was not powerful enough
so Ford contracted with Duntov to build the Hemi heads. Like was mentioned by
others the 337 Lincoln was the answer.. I don't think any of the American
Automotive companies had a OHV engine before 49.
And of course the "Hemi" was first used by the "Pipe" car company of Holland in 1905..
Just seemed that a bolt on Hemi head would not change the engine market for that time
Like many developments of the automobile, the facts are sometimes lost in time
thanks for you input...
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

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I don't think any of the American
Automotive companies had a OHV engine before 49.
Chevy has had overhead valve 6's since 1928. I don't understand why Ford stuck with such an out of date flathead design!
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:54 PM   #12
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Believe it or not Chev had an OVH in 1917 Chev D series & it was a V8 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Series_D
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

To the best of my knowledge, Ford didn't contract to build the Ardun and had nothing to do with it's design or production. The same is true of Chrysler and their Hemi that followed.

Plenty of folks seem to believe that the Ardun was the first Hemi design - therefore Chrysler must have copied it. This is very far from the truth - as a hemispherical chamber design goes back many decades before the Ardun heads were designed. In the end, the Ardun heads were a case of too little, too late . . . all the major US manufacturers were already heavily involved in their own OHV V8 designs, with Cadillac and Olds being the first to the table.

Also, the Ardun heads were an aftermarket product from day #1 - so the chances of any of the Big 3 manufacturers picking up a product like this (regardless of capability) - was pretty much slim and none. Detroit was not waiting around for the Ardun to be built - they were heavily under way with their own designs by the time the Ardun was designed and manufactured (at least on the GM and Chrysler side of the business).
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanddoc View Post
Some very good responses. In my own reading the need for more power came from
the English market and the "trash truck" Fords engine was not powerful enough
so Ford contracted with Duntov to build the Hemi heads. Like was mentioned by
others the 337 Lincoln was the answer.. I don't think any of the American
Automotive companies had a OHV engine before 49.
And of course the "Hemi" was first used by the "Pipe" car company of Holland in 1905..
Just seemed that a bolt on Hemi head would not change the engine market for that time
Like many developments of the automobile, the facts are sometimes lost in time
thanks for you input...
"...Ford contracted with Duntov to build the Hemi heads." Wrong info!! Ford DID NOT contract with Duntov! Whoever started this myth did not know what he was talking about.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

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"...Ford contracted with Duntov to build the Hemi heads." Wrong info!! Ford DID NOT contract with Duntov! Whoever started this myth did not know what he was talking about.
Furthermore overhead valves go way back and believe it or not Dusenberg used roller rockers in the early 20s.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Buick used overhead valves from day one.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Myth's.. Some of which are so entrenched in people minds that they never seem to go away. As to why Ford stayed with flat heads, long after almost every manufacture, save Chrysler, had gave up on the side valve engine at least ten years earlier is most likely a matter of economics. The flat head Ford was a very reliable, inexpensive engine, ergo the SBC. Through out the life of Ford flat head, Ford made improvements to the design, maybe minor, but there were many, improvements, as we all know.
Overhead valve engines have been around since the early teens, Chevy had a V8 in 1917, Pontiac had one in '34, it only lasted a year and most of them were recalled by the Factory..
A lot of the big trucks, International for one, had huge overhead valve six cylinder engines in the 1930's. Several of the Nash engines of the '30's were overhead valve with dual spark plug ignitions..
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Don't forget Marmon's aluminum OHV V16 from 1931. Also, Cadillac had an OHV V16 in the early 30s. It then came out with a flathead V16 later in the 30s.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

Don't forget the millions of Chevy "stovebolts" produced before 1949
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ardun Heads

A sales brochure for the Ardun conversion of a Ford 24 stud flathead motor.
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Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ardun1.JPG (56.8 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg Ardun2.JPG (58.1 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg Ardun3.JPG (57.5 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg Ardun4.JPG (58.7 KB, 27 views)
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