The Ford Barn

Lembomw · 07-10-2014, 04:19 PM

I have installed a cooling components 2-speed electric fan for my touring engine that also has air conditioning. The standard Model A water pump is too long (I have a Rupert pump) so I installed an 85 HP V-8 water pump with the adaptor. It fits, barely. I am starting to wonder if the V-8 pump is pushing as much coolant as a Model A pump.

The model A engine is 200 cubic inches and the flathead V-8 is 221 cubic inches, but the V-8 uses 2 pumps on the engine. The Model A uses 3 gal of coolant while the V-8 uses 5.5 gal of coolant. Two pumps on the V-8 because it is pushing almost twice as much coolant as a Model A even though their displacements are almost the same??

If anyone has installed an electric fan for the radiator I would like to know what water pump you are using and if it is cooling sufficiently.

Thank you for your assistance, Mark

1931 flamingo · 07-10-2014, 05:05 PM

My understanding is there are two separate systems in the f/head, each water pump pushes water thru it's own side. Sooo 5.5gal/2 =2.7 gal, vs 3 gal in model A.

Paul in CT

hardtimes · 07-10-2014, 06:44 PM

Hey Mark,
Paul is correct in his assertion ! Many guys with A/Bs do what you've done and I've never heard a complaint....other than original fan will NOT work and so do as you, i.e.-electric fan. A lot of guys run greatly increased HP and use the same pump. HOWEVER, if you read a book , by a member here, you will find that there is another great idea , IMO, to cool our A/B without changing out stock pump and fan !

Logan · 07-10-2014, 06:46 PM

Lots of people have done an electric fan with a v8 pump for years. Never heard of anyone complain about it not pumping enough. As long as your temp guage doesn't show that it's running hot. Then don't worry about it.

Purdy Swoft · 07-10-2014, 07:30 PM

Actually the V8 waterpump pumps less than the model A. This is a benefit because the A pump usually pumps more than the radiator can handle. The V8 pumps have a real seal and the impeller doesn't rob as much power as the hard pumping model A pump. This is just two more advantages that some desire

daveymc29 · 07-10-2014, 08:54 PM

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I used a v8 pump on a cragar overhead on a model a, 29 pickup. I used an electric fan and had only one minor problem when the fuse blew for the fan. Put in a spare and off to the road again. I didn't have a pressurized system yet never lost water out the overflow and never overheated. With overdrive the mileage was near 21 mpg on most trips.

machine girl · 07-10-2014, 09:14 PM

We build and install A/C kits for model As here in hot calif, a stock walker radiatior, stock water pump ( modern seals) and a thermostat 160 recommended. (the water flow is to fast ) correct timing is very important, our cars never run over 180 degrees

Art Bjornestad · 07-10-2014, 09:44 PM

I just installed a V8 pump and used a portion of a Gates radiator hose # 60608 which gave a perfect transition from the radiator to the V8 pump. I had to add a small section of hose to adapt the 2" hose to the smaller pump neck. I used the pump because I lost a new A pump while running an alternator and an A/C pump.

machine girl · 07-10-2014, 10:07 PM

Art, that's to bad but a modern pump with a USA sealed bearing, will go forever, alternator, A/C has no input on the water pump bearing . a belt is a belt. if your A/C came out of texas the fan belt is the wrong size (bottoms out on the pulley) also the pulley on the compressor is to wide. so you really have to over tighten the belt.have repaired many of these,

Lembomw · 07-11-2014, 09:44 AM

Thank you all for your responses. Looks like I will stick with the V8 pump and electric cooling fan. Right now my Snyder 6.1 head is being milled. Blew 2 gaskets (the modern one that Snyders recommends) in 1200 miles. I am not putting another of those gaskets back on. I thought I might as well have the head milled to ensure that it is flat. I spoke to the people at H &H in California about the head gasket situation. They recommend and sent me head gasket made by Best Gasket. It is a GraphTite 509-G gasket which has been mentioned in Fordbarn in the past. The leaking head gasket may have been what was causing the engine to run hot (over 220) on load and push 2 quarts out of the radiator into the overflow reservoir. Once it is back together I will post the results.

Thank you all again for your input.

hardtimes · 07-11-2014, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lembomw

Thank you all for your responses. Looks like I will stick with the V8 pump and electric cooling fan. Right now my Snyder 6.1 head is being milled. Blew 2 gaskets (the modern one that Snyders recommends) in 1200 miles. I am not putting another of those gaskets back on. I thought I might as well have the head milled to ensure that it is flat. I spoke to the people at H &H in California about the head gasket situation. They recommend and sent me head gasket made by Best Gasket. It is a GraphTite 509-G gasket which has been mentioned in Fordbarn in the past. The leaking head gasket may have been what was causing the engine to run hot (over 220) on load and push 2 quarts out of the radiator into the overflow reservoir. Once it is back together I will post the results.

Thank you all again for your input.

Yeah, I remember (I think I remember

) discussing your 2 quart situation in the past and head gasket suspect being discussed.
Hope you get some peace of mind in this. My recent past situation..tracks you situation..almost exactly , i.e.- Snyder 6:1 same head needing flattened. Mine had a couple of small cracks between water holes, be sure to check that for possible repairs...BEFORE resurfacing. Only thing that I did different, is that I used BEST 509 copper , although graphite may do well. I used copper coat on BOTH sides and brushed a small coat around each cylinder. Let tack up and install. I'd also do this with graphite. I also did some experimenting, which I will not go into here as may cause some to have heart palpations...as not stock...however NO leaks

!

BTW...I was/am pleasantly surprised with the performance of the Snyder 6:1 cast iron head (Hm, wonder if new friend making new block...made this head also

?). I had just taken off a 7:1 , that ran GREAT and another barner runs that now..another story,eh ! So, I wondered if I'd be disappointed with this 6:1...nope !

Could you post a couple pics of your electric fan install with V8 pump once it's done ?

Bubba · 07-12-2014, 07:19 PM

I would think the model A pump would pump much less than the V8 as Henry Ford said it has advantages of Thermo-Syphon and Pump system and the pump is centrifugal type and does not appreciably impede the flow even if the pump is stopped. I have run mine with the pump stopped for fairly good while and not over heat. The impeller is in a large opening so the water can flow around it. Ford had 5 five blades on the early Model A then went to 3 blade pump as it is just more of a helper.

Purdy Swoft · 07-12-2014, 07:51 PM

Heat rises, most would have benefit of thermosyphon but would run near boiling like the model T did unless a water pump was added. the first pump did have 5 blades but over pumped. The B and early V8 pumps had smaller wider spaced blades that pumped slower and didn't exit the overflow pipe like the over pumping model A pump did. The flathead V8s generally ran hotter because the exhaust ports ran down between the cylinders through the water jacket. Cadillac had a far better idea with their flathead V8s . The exhaust ports exited at the top next to the intake and didn't add extra heat to the water jacket.

07-10-2014, 04:19 PM	#1
Lembomw Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Orange County, NY Posts: 162	Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump I have installed a cooling components 2-speed electric fan for my touring engine that also has air conditioning. The standard Model A water pump is too long (I have a Rupert pump) so I installed an 85 HP V-8 water pump with the adaptor. It fits, barely. I am starting to wonder if the V-8 pump is pushing as much coolant as a Model A pump. The model A engine is 200 cubic inches and the flathead V-8 is 221 cubic inches, but the V-8 uses 2 pumps on the engine. The Model A uses 3 gal of coolant while the V-8 uses 5.5 gal of coolant. Two pumps on the V-8 because it is pushing almost twice as much coolant as a Model A even though their displacements are almost the same?? If anyone has installed an electric fan for the radiator I would like to know what water pump you are using and if it is cooling sufficiently. Thank you for your assistance, Mark

07-10-2014, 05:05 PM	#2
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,389	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump My understanding is there are two separate systems in the f/head, each water pump pushes water thru it's own side. Sooo 5.5gal/2 =2.7 gal, vs 3 gal in model A. Paul in CT

07-10-2014, 06:44 PM	#3
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump Hey Mark, Paul is correct in his assertion ! Many guys with A/Bs do what you've done and I've never heard a complaint....other than original fan will NOT work and so do as you, i.e.-electric fan. A lot of guys run greatly increased HP and use the same pump. HOWEVER, if you read a book , by a member here, you will find that there is another great idea , IMO, to cool our A/B without changing out stock pump and fan !

07-10-2014, 06:46 PM	#4
Logan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 1,055	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump Lots of people have done an electric fan with a v8 pump for years. Never heard of anyone complain about it not pumping enough. As long as your temp guage doesn't show that it's running hot. Then don't worry about it. __________________ Cowtown A's

07-10-2014, 07:30 PM	#5
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump Actually the V8 waterpump pumps less than the model A. This is a benefit because the A pump usually pumps more than the radiator can handle. The V8 pumps have a real seal and the impeller doesn't rob as much power as the hard pumping model A pump. This is just two more advantages that some desire

07-10-2014, 08:54 PM	#6
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,553	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I used a v8 pump on a cragar overhead on a model a, 29 pickup. I used an electric fan and had only one minor problem when the fuse blew for the fan. Put in a spare and off to the road again. I didn't have a pressurized system yet never lost water out the overflow and never overheated. With overdrive the mileage was near 21 mpg on most trips.

07-10-2014, 09:14 PM	#7
machine girl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 422	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump We build and install A/C kits for model As here in hot calif, a stock walker radiatior, stock water pump ( modern seals) and a thermostat 160 recommended. (the water flow is to fast ) correct timing is very important, our cars never run over 180 degrees

07-10-2014, 09:44 PM	#8
Art Bjornestad Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Westlake Village, CA Posts: 477	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump I just installed a V8 pump and used a portion of a Gates radiator hose # 60608 which gave a perfect transition from the radiator to the V8 pump. I had to add a small section of hose to adapt the 2" hose to the smaller pump neck. I used the pump because I lost a new A pump while running an alternator and an A/C pump.

07-10-2014, 10:07 PM	#9
machine girl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 422	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump Art, that's to bad but a modern pump with a USA sealed bearing, will go forever, alternator, A/C has no input on the water pump bearing . a belt is a belt. if your A/C came out of texas the fan belt is the wrong size (bottoms out on the pulley) also the pulley on the compressor is to wide. so you really have to over tighten the belt.have repaired many of these,

07-11-2014, 09:44 AM	#10
Lembomw Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Orange County, NY Posts: 162	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump Thank you all for your responses. Looks like I will stick with the V8 pump and electric cooling fan. Right now my Snyder 6.1 head is being milled. Blew 2 gaskets (the modern one that Snyders recommends) in 1200 miles. I am not putting another of those gaskets back on. I thought I might as well have the head milled to ensure that it is flat. I spoke to the people at H &H in California about the head gasket situation. They recommend and sent me head gasket made by Best Gasket. It is a GraphTite 509-G gasket which has been mentioned in Fordbarn in the past. The leaking head gasket may have been what was causing the engine to run hot (over 220) on load and push 2 quarts out of the radiator into the overflow reservoir. Once it is back together I will post the results. Thank you all again for your input.

07-12-2014, 07:19 PM	#12
Bubba Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Sour Lake Texas Posts: 54	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump I would think the model A pump would pump much less than the V8 as Henry Ford said it has advantages of Thermo-Syphon and Pump system and the pump is centrifugal type and does not appreciably impede the flow even if the pump is stopped. I have run mine with the pump stopped for fairly good while and not over heat. The impeller is in a large opening so the water can flow around it. Ford had 5 five blades on the early Model A then went to 3 blade pump as it is just more of a helper.

07-12-2014, 07:51 PM	#13
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Flathead V8 Water Pump vs Model A Pump Heat rises, most would have benefit of thermosyphon but would run near boiling like the model T did unless a water pump was added. the first pump did have 5 blades but over pumped. The B and early V8 pumps had smaller wider spaced blades that pumped slower and didn't exit the overflow pipe like the over pumping model A pump did. The flathead V8s generally ran hotter because the exhaust ports ran down between the cylinders through the water jacket. Cadillac had a far better idea with their flathead V8s . The exhaust ports exited at the top next to the intake and didn't add extra heat to the water jacket.