t5 tranny's and flatheads

[35 coupe]

I would like to put one in a 50 f1 with a built up 50 flathead and looking for advice. now the original 3 speed with the 3.92 rear is in it. should I change rear or tranny or both. THANKS

[296 V8]

That’s a perfect ratio w the T 5

[37fatfender]

Just the tranny, I run a 3:80 gear in mine. Remember ALL t-5 and GM OD transmissions were copupled to 3:73 rear ratios.

[deuce lover]

I'm running 3.70's and its to me perfect.I had 3.90's and was to low.You need to know what the 5th gear is.Mine is .076, so my final drive in 5th is 2.81.I might mention that my flathead has a 4" crank and 3/4 race cam.

[bugsiegel]

I just did this two month's ago. I'm very happy. Truck already had 3.73 rear end.
I used a Cornhusker Rod kit and that made everything go smooth. Linkage and all lined right up. Only issue I had was finding the right clutch disc. The one that came with the kit had bulky in the way springs which were contacting the flywheel bolts. The solution to that problem came from Ft Wayne clutch. I'm on the freeways with it all the time. I regularly take it to see Mom in Brooklyn NY 50 miles each way. Truck wants to sit at 70 mph. Check my history there's a complete build on this.
5 speed and padded floor insulation and the truck is so much more quieter in the cab. I couldn't take the noise prior.

[Krylon32]

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Thought I'd comment on bugsiegel clutch disc problem. I have had a problem getting the right 11 inch disc to work with this kit. We've had no problems with our 9/10 and 10.5 discs. I'm trying to get a hook up with Fort Wayne clutch to get this problem solved so I can offer the right disc. Don't do many 11 inch clutch's so offering the discs at a good price is a problem. Gary at Cornhusker

[Flat Ernie]

If you have the option, getting rid of the 11" clutch and changing to one of the smaller ones is a worthy change for 99% of most vehicles.

[NealinCA]

I have 4.11's and a T-5 in my 32 p/u...but also have 31" tall rear tires (7.50-16), so that will make a difference. I love the T-5 behind my flathead...and think it would be great in your F-1.

Neal

[Ol' Ron]

I think the T-5 was made for the flathead. They come with several differant OD ratios, also the S-10 first gear is useless except for burnouts. I like the Mustang T-5 but nobody makes an adapter for it any more. Also you can change the tail shaft to relocate the shift lever. If You have a little extra cash you can have one made to your application. The 4.11 rear would be OK with a .70 OD but not the .82. However this is moot if you don;t drive on interstates. Have fun

[Pete Fl/Wi]

I had my flywheel re drilled for an s-10 pressure plate for my t-5 behind my 8ba. I have a 51 f1 and a 40 with t-5's. Both run great at freeway speed.

[flatjack9]

I hear all the talk about T-5's, but I like the aluminum 3 speed OD Ford trans. Been running mine for 20 years now and the shift lever is exactly in the stock location. And it bolts up to a stock bellhousing. I've got a 3.70 rear axle and at 2500 rpm in running 73 mph.

[gearhead1952]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

I hear all the talk about T-5's, but I like the aluminum 3 speed OD Ford trans. Been running mine for 20 years now and the shift lever is exactly in the stock location. And it bolts up to a stock bellhousing. I've got a 3.70 rear axle and at 2500 rpm in running 73 mph.

Can you give me more info on the aluminum od trans? thanks

[Bassman/NZ]

I'm just in the throes of installing one of those 3+1 trans too. It's Ford F150 from 84-87 six cylinder without a 4WB PTO. They're apparently bullet-proof, have similar ratios to the flathead trans, but with the benefit of overdrive and full synchro. Also, as Flatjack said, the shifter is in almost the stock position, so with a flattie shifter grafted on, no-one will ever know.

[35 coupe]

Does that need a slave cylinder to work the clutch

[Bassman/NZ]

I'm using standard flathead manual clutch. Check this link .... it's for a Model A conversion but the principle is all the same.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=728951

[Ralph Moore]

I'd like to see pics of the F150 trans adapted to a flathead.

[estout81]

Ditto Ralph. Don't keep us in suspense Flatjack9! I have a '48 F-1 with a hopped-up flathead and I also have a Ford OD trans in my "goody pile".

[Ol' Ron]

Does it need an adapter or bolt to the flathead bellhousing.

[flatjack9]

No you don't need an adapter. 3 of the the 4 bolt holes line up directly. The top left has to be redrilled and the opening for the bearing retainer needs to be enlarged slightly or the bearing retainer OD can be turned down.

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Tons of excellent reading on the T-5 on Flat Ernie's link - it's worth taking a long, hard, look at ....

The stump puller 1st gear Ol Ron is referrring to was usually in the 83 (?) to 87-88 versions of the S10 T-5 - the 88-92 units usually had a better ratio.

Again, Flat Ernie's info will set you straight on T-5s and all of its iterations ....

One last thing is that Cornhusker (Krylon32) now has a kit to use the later styled S-10 trannys behind our flatties so we may no longer have to be limited to the sometimes hard-to-find earlier units, and these later T-5s are all world class units....

[Pete]

Originally Posted by 35 coupe

I would like to put one in a 50 f1 with a built up 50 flathead and looking for advice. now the original 3 speed with the 3.92 rear is in it. should I change rear or tranny or both. THANKS

Your rear end is fine as is.
Lose the 11 inch clutch.
Talk to Van Pelt's Transmission about ratios.
He can advise on what will work best for you and can build one
to your exact specs. different cars and driving styles require different ratios. You can get the speedo type you want, the late synchros and have the output shaft double bushed.
A truck usually requires a short throw shifter because a long stick is required. These are available from several places including Van Pelt's.

[bugsiegel]

One issue with the later style t-5's is the electronic speedo sender units and the cable driven speedo.
I don't know if there is a solution to getting your vintage Ford speedo to work with an electronic sender unit on the WC trans. If I remember correctly, there may be a device for sale that can do this but you have to be on 12 vlts.
Anyone with better info?

[felix37]

I have the 11' pressure plate on my t-5 instal and used an Astro van 10 1/2'' clutch disc. I love my T-5 conversion! Its the only way to go if you really drive one!

[flatjack9]

Here are a few pictures of the Ford aluminum OD trans and the Ford bellhousing. You can see 3 of the 4 bolts line up with the tranny mounts. The top left needs to have a new hole drilled and a nut welded inside the bellhousing for the 4th bolt.

[Bassman/NZ]

What bell housing is that Flatjack9?

[flatjack9]

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49 - 53 Ford steel bellhousing. Also later 51 - 53 Merc I think. Trucks used a cast housing which would also work.

[Ol' Ron]

Now I like that, might trade my T5 for one. What's the OD ratio??

[tiquer]

Hey Ron I had an 81 f-100 with that trans in it with 302 for power and found the gears to be a wide ratio and huge drop in rpm between shifts. I will stick with my T5 behind my flathead.

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Now I like that, might trade my T5 for one. What's the OD ratio??

Mine is .32. From what I've read, the ratios on the first three gears are the same or similar to a flathead trans, except of course there is synchro on all.

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Originally Posted by bugsiegel

One issue with the later style t-5's is the electronic speedo sender units and the cable driven speedo.
I don't know if there is a solution to getting your vintage Ford speedo to work with an electronic sender unit on the WC trans. If I remember correctly, there may be a device for sale that can do this but you have to be on 12 vlts.
Anyone with better info?

You can swap tailshafts from the earlier mechanical tailshaft to the 88-92 units. Now you need to buy 2 trannies and there's lots of time, learning, etc, involved. Or, you can install a newer speedo that will take the output of the electronic tailshaft and modify your dash. Or you can do like me - not care, leave the "look" of your stock speedo and simply use a cheap GPS -

[Ol' Ron]

I wouldn't put in the roadster, but I do have a truck, and that would work just fine.
I just made an adapter for a Toyota W55/6 5 speed. Used the steel bell housing as well. used the stock clutch linkage.

[pineapple]

Hello, I have a mustang t5 in my f1.my rear axle needed rebuilt, so I ended up using a 3:54 gearset, however 3:73 would have been ideal for the overdrive.anyhow, for the speedo, I used an early non world class s10 tail housing, you have machine a steel bushing to fit the output shaft, then cut it in half and use a tig welder to tack it to the shaft ever so gently in the right spot.find the right spot by assembling the trans and put a sharpie through the speedo hole and spin the output shaft.the speedo gear lock presses on to this new sleeve, use a smidge of loctite.you must split the sleeve due to the various diameters on the shaft(won't allow a press fit).ironically the f-1 speedo cable fits and works fine. Sorry for the long wind, hope this makes sense...oh, and I love it and drive it daily, also to bonneville this year, no problems at all.

[pineapple]

Meant to say "speedo gear", not speedo gear lock

[flatjack9]

[QUOTE=tiquer;546102]Hey Ron I had an 81 f-100 with that trans in it with 302 for power and found the gears to be a wide ratio and huge drop in rpm between shifts. I will stick with my T5 behind my flathead.[/QUO
The 81 trans is a different animal. Gear ratios are almost the same as the flathead tranny. OD is around .3. I really like mine. You can have your T-5.

[Ralph Moore]

So Flatjack9, is it just me or is the clutch fork mounted low on that bell housing? Where you able to use the stock linkage, or did you have to go hydraulic?

[butchbov]

I'm running a 93 WC T-5 w/an 88 tailhousing & a set of 3:31 gears in the rear of my 49. Almost perfect.

[flatjack9]

[QUOTE=Ralph Moore;546225]So Flatjack9, is it just me or is the clutch fork mounted low on that bell housing? Where you able to use the stock linkage, or did you have to go hydraulic?[/QUOTE

I used the stock 39 clutch linkage. I did have to rotate the lever 180* on the clutch shaft to get the right direction of travel. I needed to push, instead of pulling.

[Flat Ernie]

That's the RTS 3+OD and there were two gearsets available:

1st - 3.01 2nd - 1.78 3rd - 1.00 4th - 0.72

and

1st - 3.25 2nd - 1.92 3rd - 1.00 4th - 0.70

The first one is not unlike the 15T early Ford gearset (3.11, 1.77, 1.00). But like all 3-speeds, it's a bigger compromise than a 4-spd which is a compromise of a 5-spd. The flathead does have a broad, flat torque curve - which helps tremendously - but why would you want the RPM drop of a 3-spd if you're going to the trouble to adapt a different transmission and convert to open drive to begin with?

But, like many things in life: courses for horses! If you like it, then it works for you!


EDIT: The little bit I've read about them, it seems they were used more frequently in 4x4 applications (Broncos had 'em), so they may be harder to find in a 2WD truck (although they were certainly and definitely offered).

[flatjack9]

The trans used in the 4wd is a different transmission. I think it has an internal rail shifter.

[gearhead1952]

Originally Posted by pineapple

Hello, I have a mustang t5 in my f1.my rear axle needed rebuilt, so I ended up using a 3:54 gearset, however 3:73 would have been ideal for the overdrive.anyhow, for the speedo, I used an early non world class s10 tail housing, you have machine a steel bushing to fit the output shaft, then cut it in half and use a tig welder to tack it to the shaft ever so gently in the right spot.find the right spot by assembling the trans and put a sharpie through the speedo hole and spin the output shaft.the speedo gear lock presses on to this new sleeve, use a smidge of loctite.you must split the sleeve due to the various diameters on the shaft(won't allow a press fit).ironically the f-1 speedo cable fits and works fine. Sorry for the long wind, hope this makes sense...oh, and I love it and drive it daily, also to bonneville this year, no problems at all.

Matt is that you?

[flatjack9]

I think the real beauty of the Ford trans is the location of the shifter. Makes it look absolutely stock. Also no adapter required.

[pineapple]

Jeff.. Hello , yes it's me. I didn't reply on your thread, however I enjoyed your fall drive video. Hope all is well.

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

I think the real beauty of the Ford trans is the location of the shifter. Makes it look absolutely stock. Also no adapter required.

I have to use an adapter with mine, as the engine is a '47 with integral bellhousing. I'm planning on cutting the tailshaft housing and adapting the early Ford bearing retainer/trans mount/torque tube mount to fit.

[Tony, NY]

If you really want to use your mech speedo with the electronic speed signal, this unit is advertised to work. Pricey.

#68. Install a mechanical tachograph or operate a mechanical speedometer on a vehicle equipped with an electronic speedometer signal (sensor). You can do it -- quickly and easily -- at a cost far below that of buying and installing drive gears in the transmission. You save on the cost of buying and installing electronic tachographs and speedometers.

Cable X lets you use popular, low cost mechanical tachographs such as Abbott, Argo, Sangamo, Servis Recorder and Veeder-Root, and mechanical speedometers such as Autometer, Clark Brothers, Datcon, Stewart Warner and Teleflex. It operates at accurate speeds -plus or minus 2%- on the most common OEM electronic speed signals, and is as easy to install as any electronic tachograph.

You save hours of downtime installing gears into the transmission, and you don't have to mess with troublesome, expensive and long cables. Cost $369.00

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/sp...n_______va.htm
About half way down.

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

The trans used in the 4wd is a different transmission. I think it has an internal rail shifter.

From my admittedly limited research, I believe that both the RTS and the SROD were offered in 2WD and 4WD applications.

Personally, I don't see the appeal, but as I said, courses for horses.

[Ralph Moore]

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I am thinking either one I find first, this broadens my search base. Not alot of 2WD trucks from the 80's available up here With our winters, 4WD is much more common.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

If you really want to use your mech speedo with the electronic speed signal, this unit is advertised to work. Pricey.

#68. Install a mechanical tachograph or operate a mechanical speedometer on a vehicle equipped with an electronic speedometer signal (sensor). You can do it -- quickly and easily -- at a cost far below that of buying and installing drive gears in the transmission. You save on the cost of buying and installing electronic tachographs and speedometers.


Cable X lets you use popular, low cost mechanical tachographs such as Abbott, Argo, Sangamo, Servis Recorder and Veeder-Root, and mechanical speedometers such as Autometer, Clark Brothers, Datcon, Stewart Warner and Teleflex. It operates at accurate speeds -plus or minus 2%- on the most common OEM electronic speed signals, and is as easy to install as any electronic tachograph.


You save hours of downtime installing gears into the transmission, and you don't have to mess with troublesome, expensive and long cables. Cost $369.00

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/sp...n_______va.htm
About half way down.

WOW! That's a lot of equipment with a big price.
Mine is about the size of a very small pill bottle.
It goes in the cable hole in the transmission.
It has a cable connector on the outside and 2 wires coming out
the side so you can use either cable or electronic speedo or both at the same time.
It came with the transmission core so I don't know the original application but I bet it didn't cost very much.

[flatjack9]

Did a little research on the transmission. It is known as a T-170FT (Code RTS). It was available in 84 and 85 F-150's and was made in a 2 or 4 wheel drive version. You want the 2 wheel drive version. The T-170FS (Code SROD) was available from 80 to 83 and had an internal rail shifter mechanism. Not suited for this application.

[Bassman/NZ]

I've started partially dismantling my RTS for the torque tube adaption. What is the cream coloured stuff on the bolts? Some sort of thread sealer I guess.

[gearhead1952]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

I think the real beauty of the Ford trans is the location of the shifter. Makes it look absolutely stock. Also no adapter required.

Did you switch to an open driveline or connect to the torque tube? Did you keep the stock rear?

[gearhead1952]

Originally Posted by pineapple

Jeff.. Hello , yes it's me. I didn't reply on your thread, however I enjoyed your fall drive video. Hope all is well.

I'm good. Nice to see you on here. I bet there are some on here that would be interested in how you put better gears into a stock F1 rear axle.

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by gearhead1952

Did you switch to an open driveline or connect to the torque tube? Did you keep the stock rear?

I'm connecting to the torque tube and using the stock rear.

[gearhead1952]

Originally Posted by Bassman/NZ

I'm connecting to the torque tube and using the stock rear.

I would be interested in seeing the end result.

[Ralph Moore]

So I told a friend I was looking for a 3 speed and he came up with this.
From searching I know it's Ford, but the code RAB 0 FF6 does not match F150 #'s. Is it out of a car?

[estout81]

Ralph,
The trans. you show is a regular Ford three speed all syncro.

[Flat Ernie]

I believe you can adapt a Jeep top to that - I think it was the T150. Same as adapting a T176 top to a T&C Toploader 4-spd.

[flatjack9]

Yes you can adapt the Jeep shifter. Just need to grind the case a little to get the forks to drop in. However when I first did my transmission change, they were hard to find and then pretty well worn out. They are also not cheap to rebuild. Then I found the OD trans.

[Ralph Moore]

Actally, I was thinking why not keep it a column shift? if the shift pattern is the same, I could fab the linkage and the car would still look stock,47 coupe.

[38 Ford Guy]

I have 3;50 Gears 89 S-10 Transmission in 5th 2250rpm at 80 mph. Any deeper gear in the reat I would need to skip 1st gear.

[37fatfender]

All GM T-5's had a 3:73 rear gear behind it from the factory, no matter what engine was in front of it.

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by 37fatfender

All GM T-5's had a 3:73 rear gear behind it from the factory, no matter what engine was in front of it.

All models too? So a V8 Camaro and a I4 S10 and a V6 Astrovan all had 3.73 gears?

I've never heard that and that doesn't mean anything! I do like that ratio though!

[Ol' Ron]

What year did chevy adopt the Ford bolt pattern for their transmissions?

[Krylon32]

It appears that the Ford bolt pattern on S10 T5s first appears in 93????

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

It appears that the Ford bolt pattern on S10 T5s first appears in 93????

That's what's in the 'official literature' - I think it was a transition year though as I've seen both in '93. By '94, I'd like to say they were all switched over, but as I've learned over the years with T5s - there are no absolutes!

[Ol' Ron]

You'd think by now someone would be making an adapter for them especialy for the 49/53 passenger cars. Simple swap. If I were younget I'd have then cast and could machine them my self. certenly wouldn't cost much.

[marcshall]

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looking for adapter plate for a AA belhousing to install a T5 tranny any one machining them ?

[Flat Ernie]

You can get in touch with Dwight Bond - he does them periodically.

[butchbov]

I’m running a 93 S10 WC T-5 behind the 8ba in my 49 coupe with a set of 3:31 rear gears & p205 75r 15 tires. I’m using the stock stamped steel bell with a homemade adapter plate, stock pressure plate & throw-out bearing & a S-10 9.5” clutch disc. I changed out the flywheel bolts to ARP thin headed ones to clear the clutch disc springs, modified the stock pilot bushing to accept an S-10 bushing & sleeved the throw-out bearing to fit the input shaft housing. It tachs about 2 grand at 60mph.

I have about 24K miles on this setup & it works like a dream.

[miss victoria]

I build the ford F 150 O.D. conversion for 35-39 ford cars and trucks,will bolt in later models (remember floor shift ) no hacking of your car , the driveshaft and tube needs to be shortened (i can do this for you) and you replace the rear trans mount with the one i supply. everything else is bolt in.

[bugsiegel]

Butchbov,
Do you find that 2K is a little low in the power curve considering the HP of the engine?
I'm sure it's good for gas mileage though.

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by bugsiegel

Butchbov,
Do you find that 2K is a little low in the power curve considering the HP of the engine?
I'm sure it's good for gas mileage though.

My 4.1 litre Falcon daily sits on 1800 rpm at 60mph. Works fine.

[Bassman/NZ]

Here's some pics of my just completed F150 trans (3 speed all synchro plus overdrive). Just waiting on my flywheel to finish the job. A machine shop is facing it and drilling/tapping for a Falcon clutch.

[Kahuna]

Looks great Bassman. I'm using a similar adapter made by Gene Sanders to adapt a Jeep T-176 to my flathead

[296 V8]

Mr. Bassman
That is a thing of beauty …. How long is it compared (dimensionally) to the 32 to 48 three speed?

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by 296 V8

Mr. Bassman
That is a thing of beauty …. How long is it compared (dimensionally) to the 32 to 48 three speed?

Thanks, its 3 3/4" longer in total, so requires X member modification. The shifter is 2" to the rear of stock Ford location.

[Fairlane500]

Originally Posted by Bassman/NZ

Thanks, its 3 3/4" longer in total, so requires X member modification. The shifter is 2" to the rear of stock Ford location.

Wow Marty, that looks like a great conversion, clean and simple, Look forward to seeing how it fits in the A and hearing your thoughts on the performance. John

[Bassman/NZ]

Hey John,
Hahahahaha.... I'm an eedjit! I shortened my torque tube and driveshaft too much, so not only do I have to rebuild my gearbox crossmember, but I had to remove, rebuild and reweld the front engine mounts 5/8" rearward. That of course puts the fuel pump stand up against the firewall, so some work to do there too.....

Sigh..... I am an eedjit... I am an eedjit... I am an eedjit...

[Ol' Ron]

Pobodys Nerfect.

[Flat Ernie]

Bassman - seems like it'd be easier to get a new torque-tube & driveshaft and start over....

[my4dv8]

Mr Bassman , great progress and love your approach, then of course we all do dumb. What clutch pedal are you using , just looking at the box arm pointing down.
Moving the whole deal back will upset the whole apple cart, but ya gotta do what ya gotta. Still in the whole scheme it would seem easier to bit the bullet and fix the TT length. Can you make a bit longer coupler for the pinion connecter? Also thinking out loud what are the effects of a small spacer between TT and diff head? In reality it may not work but food for thought.



Hahahahaha.... I'm an eedjit! I shortened my torque tube and driveshaft too much, so not only do I have to rebuild my gearbox crossmember, but I had to remove, rebuild and reweld the front engine mounts 5/8" rearward. That of course puts the fuel pump stand up against the firewall, so some work to do there too.....

Sigh..... I am an eedjit... I am an eedjit... I am an eedjit...[/QUOTE]

[Bassman/NZ]

Well I had to rebuild the centre crossmember anyway, because the F150 setup puts the gearbox mounts nearly 4" back from the early Ford.
I'm using a set of pedals out of an unknown vehicle, I think probably an American truck from the 30s, maybe a Chev. The clutch pedal pulls, not pushes.
The reason I didn't redo the torque tube and driveshaft is because I'm actually quite happy to sit the engine back a bit anyway, and I was going to redo my engine mounts to make the engine sit 1" higher in the front.
I have no problem doing this stuff, steel is so easy to work with.... it's wood that scares me!

[my4dv8]

Good enough logic and you have a plan. That's funny about the wood thing ,I always say wood and me certainly don't agree.

[35 coupe]

The funny thing about wood sometimes is YOU CUT IT TWICE AND YOUR STILL TOO SHORT, can't figure it out...........

[Bassman/NZ]

:d:d:d