K.R. Wilson tool

[Tom Endy]

K. R. Wilson fabricated a tool to hold the Model A timing gear in place so that the nut can be torqued without putting stress on the two teeth in mesh with the crank gear. The tool has been described as a lead lined clamp that clamps the timing gear to prevent it from turning.

Has anyone ever seen this tool and does anyone have a photo of it they could post here?

Tom Endy

[larrys40]

Tom,
That's probably the only KRW tool for "A" I don't have ( except for door hinge press). At one point probably 15 years ago there was one available and I passed at the time. They were recast by someone at one point and some of those were out there although I haven't seen any in quite some time. Yes, they probably would be handy, although the bronze jaws in my vice work well and don't mar.

If I find one I'll drop you a line.
Larry Shepard

[redmodelt]

I think Tom is talking about a tool that was used when replacing the gear when the engine is still in the car, something that was made to use besides cramming a screwdriver or piece of wood in the teeth.

[Chris Haynes]

Have you contacted Ron Mosher?

[Smitty]

Put a rag between the gears of the camshaft gear and crankshaft gear. You will be able to get the nut off then.

[Tom Endy]

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Originally Posted by redmodelt

I think Tom is talking about a tool that was used when replacing the gear when the engine is still in the car, something that was made to use besides cramming a screwdriver or piece of wood in the teeth.

This the information I am looking for. I believe the device was used with the engine in the car. The idea is to hold the cam gear in a fixed position without it being held stopped by the gear on the crank.

When the crank gear is used to hold the cam gear from rotating when tightening the cam nut it puts pressure on two cam gear teeth and they can easily become distorted because they are of a soft material. This can cause the cam knock we often hear.

Some mechanics will take the side cover off when changing a cam gear and clamp a C-clamp to the edge of the cam gear and rotate it up against the engine to hold the cam in place instead of using the crank gear to hold the cam.

Tom Endy

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Put a rag between the gears of the camshaft gear and crankshaft gear. You will be able to get the nut off then.

Jamming a rag or other device in the gears when taking the nut on and off does not take the pressure off the two cam gear teeth that are engaged with the crank gear and they can still be damaged.

When assembling an engine I install the cam gear on the cam before it is installed in the engine. The cam is held clamped in a vice so that there is no pressure put on the cam gear teeth when tightening the nut.

However, quite often there is a need to change a cam gear with the engine in the car. It is not practical to remove the cam to do the task. Ford and KR Wilson must have recognized that fact and developed a tool to hold the cam independent of the crank gear.

Tom Endy

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

Jamming a rag or other device in the gears when taking the nut on and off does not take the pressure off the two cam gear teeth that are engaged with the crank gear and they can still be damaged.

When assembling an engine I install the cam gear on the cam before it is installed in the engine. The cam is held clamped in a vice so that there is no pressure put on the cam gear teeth when tightening the nut.

However, quite often there is a need to change a cam gear with the engine in the car. It is not practical to remove the cam to do the task. Ford and KR Wilson must have recognized that fact and developed a tool to hold the cam independent of the crank gear.

Tom Endy

Tom, how did this tool compensate for stripped or missing teeth on a worn-out timing gear? That is the one we struggle with.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Tom, how did this tool compensate for stripped or missing teeth on a worn-out timing gear? That is the one we struggle with.

I'm the other Tom, but I thought the tool just clamped the sides of the gear, so missing teeth would have no effect on the tool's operation.

[Tom Endy]

Back to the original question, other than Larry Shepard, has anyone ever seen this tool and is there a photo available?

Tom Endy

[KR500]

Tom, I took a couple of blocks of CRS and milled two pockets in them (rectangular) and laid a cam, Front two lobes, in between a hole I bored for the shank of the cam and then melted and poured lead into the milled pockets. After cooling the cam popped out when I separated the two halves. I have taken a few cam nuts off which were really tight on the cam and I thought I might end up twisting off the front of the cam, but it held. Having the two pins in the cam gear what motivates guys muscling the lock nut with so much torque? I will try and post a picture of the tool I made.

[redmodelt]

That is still not what the question is. That is a somewhat regular tool that could be bought but good suggestion on how to make that tool for removing nut with cam out of the car.
The question is not how to make a tool to remove the cam nut with the cam out of the car it's about a tool used to remove the nut with the cam still in the engine while the engine is in the car.
That should have been a tool to hold the gear so the nut could be removed.

[RUNNERBUN]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

Back to the original question, other than Larry Shepard, has anyone ever seen this tool and is there a photo available?

Tom Endy

I'm sure a man of Toms experience knows how to remove a Cam nut, what he has asked for is a picture of an original tool not a way to remove a nut. It is a simple and straight forward question.

[larrys40]

Tom,
Here's a photo from the KRW book from 1931. It is in fact a bench vice type clamp and states that in the description. I have never seen one for clamping in the engine and can't imagine there would be one as there simply isn't room and any surface to clamp that isn't round as even with the pan off the cam lobes wouldn't be available for use.
countless cam gears were replaced over the years with conventional methods in the car. Having done a good number myself I've never had any trouble nor did any gears get damaged in the process. Hope this helps.

Again, these were repopped by someone way back.. I should have picked it up but I didn't... and unfortuantely haven't seen one I don't believe since. For install on the cam outside the engine I use my stout bronze jaws in my vice on the forward cam bearing surface and tighten and install. I have never had issue with that. I use the socket type cam wrench on my 1/2 impact and give it a good tighten. Not crazy but a good couple of ugha duga's.

larry

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by larrys40

Tom,
Here's a photo from the KRW book from 1931. It is in fact a bench vice type clamp and states that in the description. I have never seen one for clamping in the engine and can't imagine there would be one as there simply isn't room and any surface to clamp that isn't round as even with the pan off the cam lobes wouldn't be available for use.
countless cam gears were replaced over the years with conventional methods in the car. Having done a good number myself I've never had any trouble nor did any gears get damaged in the process. Hope this helps.

Again, these were repopped by someone way back.. I should have picked it up but I didn't... and unfortuantely haven't seen one I don't believe since. For install on the cam outside the engine I use my stout bronze jaws in my vice on the forward cam bearing surface and tighten and install. I have never had issue with that. I use the socket type cam wrench on my 1/2 impact and give it a good tighten. Not crazy but a good couple of ugha duga's.

larry

Would it not be as easy to just clamp the timing gear in the vise and remove the nut? That's how I do it.

[redmodelt]

The whole point of this question is being missed. I guess if you want to remove the headlight bar/radiator/hood/head/intake and exhaust manifold/pull the valves/hold up the lifters/remove the timing cover/side cover just to replace the cam gear. Well then ok the vice is a good way.

[KR500]

Tom, Letme throw an idea out to you concerning the tool you mention. I'm thinking of taking an old cracked( there seems to be a few laying around by me from people placing too long of a bolt thru timing cover) timing gear inspection cover and inserting a half circle segment of aluminum inside after which I have drilled and tapped at a 22 1/2 degree angle a series of say 15 holes to accept 8-32 allen head screws which match the teeth on a cam gear. After bolting up the inspection cover and making sure the pin diameters of the 8-32 screw engage the timing gear teeth. If I have some luck with this I will post a pic. The aluminum would be fastened to the inspection cover from the inside and held in by allen heads on the outside of the cover.

[Charlville]

I think juke joint johnny might be able to help?

[1930 coupe]

Back to the original question, are you sure that this tool was a K R Wilson tool? I have looked through all my K R Wilson catalogs and many old Snap-On catalogs from the 30's and 40's and I do not see this tool in any of these catalogs.

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

Back to the original question, are you sure that this tool was a K R Wilson tool? I have looked through all my K R Wilson catalogs and many old Snap-On catalogs from the 30's and 40's and I do not see this tool in any of these catalogs.

The bench mount fixture described that has a lead lining is on page 18 of the 1931 catalog. I think Tom thought it was applicable for use in the car when in fact it is for out of the car for use in a bench vise to loosen or tighten the nut. Just that simple.

conventional methods for install have worked for me and of course others. Prudent careful install is key.

Larry Shepard