The Ford Barn

ajmac · 12-12-2012, 09:03 AM

I have a timing fixture that I borrowed to set up my Crab distributor:

There was no light so I used a digital multimeter instead.

The one below isn't in such good condition, but should still give results.

Hoop · 12-12-2012, 09:30 AM

Ted, Bubba, and anyone else,

Watch Harylufa's video. Left hand points are OK, Right hand points are OK ... but when he runs BOTH sets at the end, something goes wrong.

What do you think? What would cause that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrw3y...ature=youtu.be

Harylufa · 12-12-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoop

Ted, Bubba, and anyone else,

Watch Harylufa's video. Left hand points are OK, Right hand points are OK ... but when he runs BOTH sets at the end, something goes wrong.

What do you think? What would cause that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrw3y...ature=youtu.be

Hoop!
I tested this dist after being set into strobe machine in technician. So, I put it into my manual machine to see how it look like.

Hary

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-12-2012, 10:13 AM

Hary,

The distributor machine or tester adjusts the contact spacing for correct coil firing etc and build up etc.
The actuall distributor timing is usually set ( side slide) in the middle or zero degrees.
Then when distributor is installed on engine it is set at zero, 2 or 4 degrees depending on the discussion. Actually it could be any of these numbers etc depending on engine set up.

Then the distributor mechanical advance comes into play , the crab ( two bolt housing) is a 11A distributor meaning 11 degrees of advance or 22 degrees engine. Assuming the engine has a mark or degreed pulley you could measure that number with a timing light hooked to number one cylinder.
For one reason or another most flathead guys dont degree the front pulley.

Harylufa · 12-12-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

Hary,

The distributor machine or tester adjusts the contact spacing for correct coil firing etc and build up etc.
The actuall distributor timing is usually set ( side slide) in the middle or zero degrees.
Then when distributor is installed on engine it is set at zero, 2 or 4 degrees depending on the discussion. Actually it could be any of these numbers etc depending on engine set up.

Then the distributor mechanical advance comes into play , the crab ( two bolt housing) is a 11A distributor meaning 11 degrees of advance or 22 degrees engine. Assuming the engine has a mark or degreed pulley you could measure that number with a timing light hooked to number one cylinder.
For one reason or another most flathead guys dont degree the front pulley.

Bubba!

I have mark front pulley. So, today i put light timing and I could get 400 rpm at almost 12º. I think concerning what you say my engine is almost ready for DAKAR? ja, what do you think, perhaps in the middle of the desert IT will blow.

What do you think now? I will leave as it is?
Must I install the resistor 1,6 ohm?

Keep in touch and thanks.

Hary

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-12-2012, 02:11 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Harylufa

Bubba!

I have mark front pulley. So, today i put light timing and I could get 400 rpm at almost 12º. I think concerning what you say my engine is almost ready for DAKAR? ja, what do you think, perhaps in the middle of the desert IT will blow.

What do you think now? I will leave as it is?
Must I install the resistor 1,6 ohm?

Keep in touch and thanks.

Hary

Hary,

If the coil is a 12 volt coil it should have 1.5 ohms from primary to secondary terminals and use the 1.6 ohm ressitor.
If you are idling at 12 degrees i would adjust the side screw up a little to see 2-4 on the pulley at idle......
Others may have other ideas.....

Harylufa · 12-12-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

Hary,

If the coil is a 12 volt coil it should have 1.5 ohms from primary to secondary terminals and use the 1.6 ohm ressitor.
If you are idling at 12 degrees i would adjust the side screw up a little to see 2-4 on the pulley at idle......
Others may have other ideas.....

Bubba!

Ok, I ll adjust the screw and please correct me the connection. This is what the technician told me to do.I attach the pic.
Or the resistor must go between coil and dist???

Thanks

Hary

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-12-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harylufa

Bubba!

Ok, I ll adjust the screw and please correct me the connection. This is what the technician told me to do.I attach the pic.
Or the resistor must go between coil and dist???

Thanks

Hary

Resistor goes between the key on off power and the coil. You are on the correct side .....for a negative ground vehicle....

Harylufa · 12-12-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

Resistor goes between the key on off power and the coil. You are on the correct side .....for a negative ground vehicle....

Thanks Bubba, I will install it.

Hary

Jack 34pu · 12-12-2012, 06:08 PM

OK, OK, I've followed this thread for some time and now must respond with my 2 cents. One person had it correct. More modern engines (50's & 60's possibly later) using the 12v coil had a resistor on a by-pass circuit. The full 12v would be used when starting. When key was returned to 'run' position, the resistor was inserted into the circuit to run the coil on about 8v or there abouts. You see the starter puts a heavy draw on the battery (voltage drop) when running so you want a direct line to the 12v battery. Some time put a large scale voltmeter on your battery and watch while hitting the starter button. You will see a voltage drop to about 8-10v. (remember, the gen or alternator have not kicked in yet) You may be able to tell battery condition by this method as the lower the starting voltage the poorer condition the battery - charge it and try again.
There are some coils with a built in resistor and it is usually marked on the case. Unfortunatly, you don't have the advantage of the full 12v under starting conditions using this type of coil. If you have a separate resistor in the circuit properly and it burns out unknowingly to you, the engine will start while having the key in the 'start' position, but will shut off when you return the key to the run position.

Now, back to the timing discussion.

Harylufa · 12-12-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack 34pu

OK, OK, I've followed this thread for some time and now must respond with my 2 cents. One person had it correct. More modern engines (50's & 60's possibly later) using the 12v coil had a resistor on a by-pass circuit. The full 12v would be used when starting. When key was returned to 'run' position, the resistor was inserted into the circuit to run the coil on about 8v or there abouts. You see the starter puts a heavy draw on the battery (voltage drop) when running so you want a direct line to the 12v battery. Some time put a large scale voltmeter on your battery and watch while hitting the starter button. You will see a voltage drop to about 8-10v. (remember, the gen or alternator have not kicked in yet) You may be able to tell battery condition by this method as the lower the starting voltage the poorer condition the battery - charge it and try again.
There are some coils with a built in resistor and it is usually marked on the case. Unfortunatly, you don't have the advantage of the full 12v under starting conditions using this type of coil. If you have a separate resistor in the circuit properly and it burns out unknowingly to you, the engine will start while having the key in the 'start' position, but will shut off when you return the key to the run position.

Now, back to the timing discussion.

Hi Jack34pu!

I really thanks your time for explanation, I have been using my engine for 15 yrs without resistor being my car 12V.
Now I was advice to install it to avoid damage. Now, what do you suggest?

Perhaps I must leave it as it is, last time I changed the contact points (15 yrs), they were in bad conditions.

Well, how do you do when your engine change to 12V???

Thank you

Hary.

Bluebell · 12-14-2012, 07:11 PM

Hi, Jack 34 pu is nearly correct.
The early ford 6 volt system actually ran a 4 1/2 volt coil, with a resistor behind the dash to drop the voltage to 4 1/2 volts while the engine was running.
I am not sure if this was bypassed, and supplied 6 volts during cranking.

IF! you buy a ballast coil, you will need to run it with a ballast resistor. if you buy and use an ordinary 12 volt coil you don't need a resistor.
The risk of running a ballast coil without a resistor, is that it will probably burn out (but will supply a good spark while it works) Effectively you are running an 8 volt coil on 12 volts.
Apart from burning points (due to the condenser not matching the coil) there isn't any other damage to be done.

BTW Bubba, we're all Kiwis here. It doesn't matter which particular ethnic mix we might be.

Harylufa · 12-15-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluebell

Hi, Jack 34 pu is nearly correct.
The early ford 6 volt system actually ran a 4 1/2 volt coil, with a resistor behind the dash to drop the voltage to 4 1/2 volts while the engine was running.
I am not sure if this was bypassed, and supplied 6 volts during cranking.

IF! you buy a ballast coil, you will need to run it with a ballast resistor. if you buy and use an ordinary 12 volt coil you don't need a resistor.
The risk of running a ballast coil without a resistor, is that it will probably burn out (but will supply a good spark while it works) Effectively you are running an 8 volt coil on 12 volts.
Apart from burning points (due to the condenser not matching the coil) there isn't any other damage to be done.

BTW Bubba, we're all Kiwis here. It doesn't matter which particular ethnic mix we might be.

Bluebell!

I think I must leave it as it is! I will back with news

Thanks
Hary

philipswanson · 04-05-2018, 09:47 AM

Bubba's

I really appreciate you posting this old Ford Service Bulletin however I question one of your calculations. In paragraph 14 of the bulletin, you calculate 50% dwell as 30 degrees (handwritten in). Shouldn't that be 22.5 degrees (50% of 45)??? This was for the 68-78-81 only. Not sure if you are using this data. This is a great thread!! Old but good!!

Phil Swanson

BUBBAS IGNITION · 04-05-2018, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philipswanson

Bubba's

I really appreciate you posting this old Ford Service Bulletin however I question one of your calculations. In paragraph 14 of the bulletin, you calculate 50% dwell as 30 degrees (handwritten in). Shouldn't that be 22.5 degrees (50% of 45)??? This was for the 68-78-81 only. Not sure if you are using this data. This is a great thread!! Old but good!!

Phil Swanson

WOW this thread is 7 years old !!! Thats good that some are still reading and using it. You are correct 50% is 22.5 degrees.
All strap helmet points are (drivers side) are adjusted to 27 degrees and all small points (individual) are set to 22.5 on a machine and ran for a few minutes......

philipswanson · 04-05-2018, 11:17 AM

An old thread but a good one!! Doesn't hurt to revisit it and the original Ford bulletin.

philipswanson · 04-08-2018, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

We use McMaster Carrr in Chicago Ill, amazing huge catlog and one day delivery to us......also on line as well.....

I used E Bay, readily available with free shipping.

Harylufa · 01-20-2019, 07:27 PM

Hi all!

Thanks to all these threads I have learnt to set my distributor. Once I set it correctly I have never touch it again. My Ford 1946 started without any problem.

So, thanks again for all the knowledge your share with me here.

Happy 2019

Ariel from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

12-12-2012, 09:03 AM	#61
ajmac Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Lincoln, UK Posts: 50	Re: Distributor talk..... I have a timing fixture that I borrowed to set up my Crab distributor: There was no light so I used a digital multimeter instead. The one below isn't in such good condition, but should still give results. __________________ Alastair --------------- Loyd Carrier - Under Restoration Loyd Project on Facebook

12-12-2012, 09:30 AM	#62
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: Distributor talk..... Ted, Bubba, and anyone else, Watch Harylufa's video. Left hand points are OK, Right hand points are OK ... but when he runs BOTH sets at the end, something goes wrong. What do you think? What would cause that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrw3y...ature=youtu.be __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

12-12-2012, 10:13 AM	#64
BUBBAS IGNITION Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: SPEEDWAY INDIANA Posts: 4,148	Re: Distributor talk..... Hary, The distributor machine or tester adjusts the contact spacing for correct coil firing etc and build up etc. The actuall distributor timing is usually set ( side slide) in the middle or zero degrees. Then when distributor is installed on engine it is set at zero, 2 or 4 degrees depending on the discussion. Actually it could be any of these numbers etc depending on engine set up. Then the distributor mechanical advance comes into play , the crab ( two bolt housing) is a 11A distributor meaning 11 degrees of advance or 22 degrees engine. Assuming the engine has a mark or degreed pulley you could measure that number with a timing light hooked to number one cylinder. For one reason or another most flathead guys dont degree the front pulley. __________________ If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!! www.bubbasignition.com [email protected]

12-12-2012, 06:08 PM	#70
Jack 34pu Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: State College, PA Posts: 362	Re: Distributor talk..... OK, OK, I've followed this thread for some time and now must respond with my 2 cents. One person had it correct. More modern engines (50's & 60's possibly later) using the 12v coil had a resistor on a by-pass circuit. The full 12v would be used when starting. When key was returned to 'run' position, the resistor was inserted into the circuit to run the coil on about 8v or there abouts. You see the starter puts a heavy draw on the battery (voltage drop) when running so you want a direct line to the 12v battery. Some time put a large scale voltmeter on your battery and watch while hitting the starter button. You will see a voltage drop to about 8-10v. (remember, the gen or alternator have not kicked in yet) You may be able to tell battery condition by this method as the lower the starting voltage the poorer condition the battery - charge it and try again. There are some coils with a built in resistor and it is usually marked on the case. Unfortunatly, you don't have the advantage of the full 12v under starting conditions using this type of coil. If you have a separate resistor in the circuit properly and it burns out unknowingly to you, the engine will start while having the key in the 'start' position, but will shut off when you return the key to the run position. Now, back to the timing discussion.

12-14-2012, 07:11 PM	#72
Bluebell Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 726	Re: Distributor talk..... Hi, Jack 34 pu is nearly correct. The early ford 6 volt system actually ran a 4 1/2 volt coil, with a resistor behind the dash to drop the voltage to 4 1/2 volts while the engine was running. I am not sure if this was bypassed, and supplied 6 volts during cranking. IF! you buy a ballast coil, you will need to run it with a ballast resistor. if you buy and use an ordinary 12 volt coil you don't need a resistor. The risk of running a ballast coil without a resistor, is that it will probably burn out (but will supply a good spark while it works) Effectively you are running an 8 volt coil on 12 volts. Apart from burning points (due to the condenser not matching the coil) there isn't any other damage to be done. BTW Bubba, we're all Kiwis here. It doesn't matter which particular ethnic mix we might be.

04-05-2018, 09:47 AM	#74
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Distributor talk..... Bubba's I really appreciate you posting this old Ford Service Bulletin however I question one of your calculations. In paragraph 14 of the bulletin, you calculate 50% dwell as 30 degrees (handwritten in). Shouldn't that be 22.5 degrees (50% of 45)??? This was for the 68-78-81 only. Not sure if you are using this data. This is a great thread!! Old but good!! Phil Swanson

04-05-2018, 11:17 AM	#76
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Distributor talk..... An old thread but a good one!! Doesn't hurt to revisit it and the original Ford bulletin.

01-20-2019, 07:27 PM	#78
Harylufa Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina! Posts: 356	Re: Distributor talk..... Hi all! Thanks to all these threads I have learnt to set my distributor. Once I set it correctly I have never touch it again. My Ford 1946 started without any problem. So, thanks again for all the knowledge your share with me here. Happy 2019 Ariel from Buenos Aires, Argentina. __________________ I love my Ford V8 1946! Harylufa!