About to have a problem with a ford barner

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

I have been asked by a seller more than once to send the paypal money as a friend transaction ,I refused anticipating the dilemma you are in ,I just offer to ad the PP fee... Ted

Exactly what I do. You have to pay the fee anyway, might just as well add it into the price going forward.

[fatkidscars]

Talked to the guy and he has decided to send the doors back with a signature required
< which i agree also, and i will send the money as soon as i have the doors back , so as of now all should end good... i think he may have read the posts here, thanks Barners

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by fatkidscars

Talked to the guy and he has decided to send the doors back with a signature required
< which i agree also, and i will send the money as soon as i have the doors back , so as of now all should end good... i think he may have read the posts here, thanks Barners

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The Seller pays the transaction fees when using PayPal, unless the buyer agrees to pay them, Or if the buyer checks the box, saying this transaction is with friends or family, then the fees are waived.

If the buyer is reading this, he should learn, that he should have offered to pay the transaction fee, because once he checked the (friends box), he relinquished his ability to get PayPal to help him settle any dispute.

Now, he needs to hope he gets a fair settlement, once he returns the parts.
The buyer is a FordBarn member too, so I hope this dispute turns out fairly.















.

[jimalabam]

Only one way to go - No doors returned and in your hands, no refund...

[funrunr]

I would think the doors are going to be expensive to return, perhaps you could offer him a discounted price refund for the doors and he keeps them. He did find errors that were not mentioned and you don't want the doors (otherwise you wouldn't have sold them). He is going to be out the cost of shipping them doors twice for something that was not disclosed to him. I personally would try to talk to him over the phone (like a gentleman, if it turns into an argument end the call and wait for the doors to show up)
I have no idea of the condition of the doors or the price agreed upon. I do think they could be repaired and reused. I'm sorry to say but I hate shipping cost especially if I have to pay it twice for something that isn't up to my standards. I've sold plenty of parts here on the barn, plenty of times (not always) I've listed a 100% refund of their initial payment including shipping one way, if not satisfied.
I'm not saying you have to refund his shipping, just maybe offer some money back and he keeps the doors. Ask him what he feels the fair value of the doors are and go from there. Hopefully you guys can both work this out so there are two winners.

[Shadetree]

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But the buyer wants me to refund his money before he sends the doors back, he says im out of line asking for the process to take that route,

He trusted you with his money when he bought the doors. Why wouldn't he trust you again to give him his money back by simply returning the doors? I agree with you...

[JM 35 Sedan]

When I sell something here on FB, I give the buyer several choices for method of payment, one being by PayPal as long as I do not have to pay PayPal's fee, or I tell them I can add a % into the cost of the item that will cover the fee. The buyer usually figures out how to do this on their own, or winds up sending a USPS money order instead, which is one of the three payment options I give them. As a seller, there is absolutely no way that I would agree to pay PayPals fee.

[WestCoast]

you were paid the first time before the doors were sent, so this time its just in reverse, you get the doors and he gets his money, whats his problem, i wouldnt mess with him any longer, tell him its either send doors or your done with him, his choice, As far as pay pal is concerned with draw all the money out of you pay pal account , either send the doors for a refund or keep then, end of conversation

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by fatkidscars

Talked to the guy and he has decided to send the doors back with a signature required
< which i agree also, and i will send the money as soon as i have the doors back , so as of now all should end good... i think he may have read the posts here, thanks Barners

I sure hope that all goes well for you. Myself being from Alaska I buy a lot from outside & so far have not had any problems. I pay with credit card or postal money order, but have stayed away from paypal. My son has a pay pal account & I have had him use it for me a few times on ebay but he has never had any problems with them yet. Bill

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by outlaw

I sure that all goes well for you. Myself being from Alaska I buy a lot from outside & so far have not had any problems. I pay with credit card or postal money order, but have stayed away from paypal. My son has a pay pal account & I have had him use it for me a few times on ebay but he has never had any problems with them yet. Bill

A buyer will almost never have a problem with PayPal! It is the seller who will have the issues. That is because PayPal is weighed in favor of the buyer, if a buyer complains PayPal tends to side with whatever the buyer says and ignore the sellers point of view. So, PayPal is good for a buyer but can be a problem for a seller.

[rotorwrench]

Photographs can never represent a part as well as the human eye. When someone purchases something with out the advantage of looking at it, there will always be a chance that there will be a problem. A written description can get pretty close as long as a person lists all discrepancies with the part/s for sale. This description can be used in a defensive dispute situation if it is accurate enough. A bad or misrepresented description is not good for either party and leaves the buyer with the upper hand in a dispute but only if PayPal is involved. A person has to represent their for sale item well or they deserve what they get in a dispute.

Shipping now days is way out there so that is always another factor in a PayPal dispute. Folks that sell things need to have it in print what there status will be in the event that the buyer wants to return the item. If it is plain that buyer will have to foot the bill for return shipping then he should know that he is taking a chance by purchasing something sight unseen. Most of us have probably been burned in purchases before. Everyone handles buyers remorse in different ways too.

If the world was a perfect place the buyer would be on the hook for at least half the return shipping for buying sight unseen and the seller the other half for giving a less than adequate description but that just isn't the way it works in the real world. Most sellers will not eat the return shipping at all and that's OK as long as it is somewhere in writing.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by funrunr

I would think the doors are going to be expensive to return, perhaps you could offer him a discounted price refund for the doors and he keeps them. He did find errors that were not mentioned and you don't want the doors (otherwise you wouldn't have sold them). He is going to be out the cost of shipping them doors twice for something that was not disclosed to him. I personally would try to talk to him over the phone (like a gentleman, if it turns into an argument end the call and wait for the doors to show up)
I have no idea of the condition of the doors or the price agreed upon. I do think they could be repaired and reused. I'm sorry to say but I hate shipping cost especially if I have to pay it twice for something that isn't up to my standards. I've sold plenty of parts here on the barn, plenty of times (not always) I've listed a 100% refund of their initial payment including shipping one way, if not satisfied.
I'm not saying you have to refund his shipping, just maybe offer some money back and he keeps the doors. Ask him what he feels the fair value of the doors are and go from there. Hopefully you guys can both work this out so there are two winners.

IMHO: This might be the best solution if you are both in agreement. Have him send you pictures of the doors so you can make sure of their condition as recieved. Bill

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

I have been asked by a seller more than once to send the paypal money as a friend transaction ,I refused anticipating the dilemma you are in ,I just offer to ad the PP fee.

And there you have it. Using the "friends and family" pay method is a very good indicator that you MAY be shady and willing to cut corners because you have already agreed to cheat PayPal out of the fees they have earned for providing you both with a service. When you do this you have nothing to bitch about if it comes back on you.

The flip side is the buyer is in the same boat as you,or he wouldn't have agreed to cheat Pay Pal out of their fees.

I am honestly not trying to be insulting because I think most people who do this don't even think about it enough to realize it is a form of cheating or stealing,and most who do justify it by telling themselves "They are a multi-million dollar operation,so they can afford it."

BUT...,the fact is that cheating and stealing are still cheating and stealing and it makes no difference if it is Bill Gates you are stealing and cheating,or a homeless orphan.

Which is why the seller can't afford to take a chance on sending the money back before he gets the doors,and the buyer can't afford to take a chance on getting his money back if he sends the doors back first.

It's not the end of the world and it's not something that puts you in the league of a master career criminal,but what it can be if you think about it rationally is a learning moment. From now on do things they way they are supposed to be done,and you will have options available to you if there is any quarrel. This applies to both buyers and sellers.

And "YES,I HAVE done this myself." I did it once,and was lucky enough I got away with it. The parts were delivered to me and they were as described. I will never do it again,though. The worry about not having any recovery options combined with the guilt just isn't worth it to me.

[Carl]

...I learned something today concerning the PayPal " Friends & Family" deal, and I'll bet others did, too. I'll bet PayPal will see an increase in their transaction fees after this enlightening discussion.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by LazarusLong

...
And "YES,I HAVE done this myself." I did it once,and was lucky enough I got away with it. The parts were delivered to me and they were as described. I will never do it again,though. The worry about not having any recovery options combined with the guilt just isn't worth it to me.

I had a guy do a payment as a "gift" to dodge the fees, and then he put "for fenders" in the Comments box for the payment. PP isn't stupid, if they see something like that, they might take away both participants' rights to use their system. Not worth it to me to save $3 or $4.

[39topless]

Originally Posted by LazarusLong

And there you have it. Using the "friends and family" pay method is a very good indicator that you MAY be shady and willing to cut corners because you have already agreed to cheat PayPal out of the fees they have earned for providing you both with a service. When you do this you have nothing to bitch about if it comes back on you.

The flip side is the buyer is in the same boat as you,or he wouldn't have agreed to cheat Pay Pal out of their fees.

I am honestly not trying to be insulting because I think most people who do this don't even think about it enough to realize it is a form of cheating or stealing,and most who do justify it by telling themselves "They are a multi-million dollar operation,so they can afford it."

BUT...,the fact is that cheating and stealing are still cheating and stealing and it makes no difference if it is Bill Gates you are stealing and cheating,or a homeless orphan.

Which is why the seller can't afford to take a chance on sending the money back before he gets the doors,and the buyer can't afford to take a chance on getting his money back if he sends the doors back first.

It's not the end of the world and it's not something that puts you in the league of a master career criminal,but what it can be if you think about it rationally is a learning moment. From now on do things they way they are supposed to be done,and you will have options available to you if there is any quarrel. This applies to both buyers and sellers.

And "YES,I HAVE done this myself." I did it once,and was lucky enough I got away with it. The parts were delivered to me and they were as described. I will never do it again,though. The worry about not having any recovery options combined with the guilt just isn't worth it to me.

Great advice. A cheater is a cheater (sorry Yogi, RIP).

[funrunr]

PayPal makes their money from balances left in your account. I have quite a bit in my account just like the bank, I have a large sum balance and only withdraw to make car part purchases. When you pay the 3% you are buying their protection, if you don't trust the person your buying from this is usually a good idea. I don't consider it cheating to send or receive money as a gift.

[Tinker]

Would be interesting to hear from the buyer... If he/she's actually following this.

Sure it will turn out somewhat decent for both.

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

I had a guy do a payment as a "gift" to dodge the fees, and then he put "for fenders" in the Comments box for the payment. PP isn't stupid, if they see something like that, they might take away both participants' rights to use their system. Not worth it to me to save $3 or $4.

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That has to be BS.

PayPal DON'T ask the BUYER to pay any fees,
they only ask the seller to pay fees.









.

[FlatheadTed]

As far as I know or in most cases its the seller who doesn't want to pay the fees ,since its part of Pay-Pall way of paying there wages etc I think its there call and it should be paid .I buy and sell through Pay Pal brake systems and never really had a problem , I have brought truck cabs etc of photos from the USA and have never been disappointed .The only one recently was in my own back yard ,Australia! ,the guy didn't get his 36 brake kit .He opened a dispute with papal ,for my side of the story they wanted tracking # etc I could only supply a post office receipt ,but on looking into it his Papal address was not in full as copyed from PP it had no state specified ,so the product is floating around out there some were .so in this case its the buyers fault ,PP was not interested in my side so I waved the amount and will claim on insurance .Ted