The Ford Barn

MadmanWilson · 09-21-2013, 06:49 PM

I don't have much experience with car wiring, but I noticed that the 36 I'm working on seems to have two solenoids? Is this a common thing? The top one actually is labeled IGN SW SOL, the bottom isn't but they look exactly the same.

The bottom solenoid has a wire coming in the from battery on the left side, then it just connects up in parallel to the other solenoid on the same terminal.

Looking to change to 12v... I assume I will replace these with one 12 volt solenoid?

I attached a picture. There is a master cylinder there someone added at some point just so as not to confuse everyone on what they're looking at.

V8COOPMAN · 09-21-2013, 06:54 PM

Those are not solenoids. They appear to possibly be horn relay and/or maybe a voltage regulator. DD

bbrocksr · 09-21-2013, 06:55 PM

those are relays, like a light relay or a horn relay.
Bill

MadmanWilson · 09-21-2013, 07:09 PM

Ah alright the one being labeled IGN SW SOL threw me off. So these didn't have one originally. Will I need to put one on when I convert to 12v?

MadmanWilson · 09-21-2013, 07:17 PM

Or perhaps the solenoid is in the foot starter switch...

V8COOPMAN · 09-21-2013, 07:21 PM

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Yes, they did have ONE originally, but it's probably on the passenger side of the firewall. Should be wired BETWEEN the big cable coming from battery post and the other big cable bolted to starter. DD

V8COOPMAN · 09-21-2013, 07:22 PM

If ya have a foot switch, that should be in lieu of solenoid. DD

ford38v8 · 09-21-2013, 10:19 PM

A solenoid is an electrically operated magnetic switch, used for high voltage draw like the starter motor. It can be operated remotely by a simple pushbutton. They are used on '37 and up. '36 was the last year to use a foot starter switch.

A relay is also a magnetic switch, but is used for smaller devices such as a horn.

bbrocksr · 09-21-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

A solenoid is an electrically operated magnetic switch, used for high voltage draw like the starter motor. It can be operated remotely by a simple pushbutton. They are used on '37 and up. '36 was the last year to use a foot starter switch.

A relay is also a magnetic switch, but is used for smaller devices such as a horn.

A solenoid is a magnetic switch that performs a mechanical function such as pulling in a starter drive. A magnetic switch or relay performs a electrical function only. Quite often magnetic switches are called solenoids.
Bill

bbrocksr · 09-21-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadmanWilson

Ah alright the one being labeled IGN SW SOL threw me off. So these didn't have one originally. Will I need to put one on when I convert to 12v?

When you convert to 12V you can use either the foot switch or a magnetic switch. If you use a magnetic switch it will have to be activated with a push button or a ignition switch with a start position.
Bill

ford38v8 · 09-21-2013, 10:40 PM

Bill, the solenoid on an early ford does perform a mechanical function: It pulls in not the starter drive, but the electrical switch that then pulls in the bendix drive. Perhaps the bendix drive also has what you'd call a solenoid, I don't know?

bbrocksr · 09-21-2013, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Bill, the solenoid on an early ford does perform a mechanical function: It pulls in not the starter drive, but the electrical switch that then pulls in the bendix drive. Perhaps the bendix drive also has what you'd call a solenoid, I don't know?

Alan, The Magnetic switch on a early Ford 37-48 make an electrical connection only which energizes the starter motor and the spining armature shaft screws the gear into the flywheel. A lot of people call them solenoids but their really a magnetic switch.
Bill

ford38v8 · 09-21-2013, 11:27 PM

Bill, I see your distinction, but must insist that the 'magnetic switch' on the firewall of early fords (and probably most other cars of the era) is very well known as a solenoid, whether technically true or not.
Would you, for example, make yourself clear to a supplier if you ordered a magnetic switch for a 1940 ford? I think the clerk would likely ask you to specify more clearly your wish!

MadmanWilson · 09-22-2013, 06:49 AM

Thanks for all the great information guys!

36Bill · 09-22-2013, 08:22 AM

I would think the foot switch would work fine on 12 volts.

Bill

Frank Miller · 09-22-2013, 08:53 AM

What those may be are relays for a solenoid. The one for the overdrive has the same labeling, as it connects higher amperage to the OD solenoid than the ignition switch could handle. As to how they are used here you will have to trace the wires to see what they connect to. The wire from the terminal marked solenoid will most likely go to the device it operates.

Brendan · 09-22-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Yes, they did have ONE originally, but it's probably on the passenger side of the firewall. Should be wired BETWEEN the big cable coming from battery post and the other big cable bolted to starter. DD

36 pickup did not have any solenoids for the starter or the horn

donQ · 09-22-2013, 08:34 PM

I can't tell from the photo what the components are, but if they are horn relays, one may be used for the horn, and the other used to bypass the ignition ballast resistor when starting to apply full voltage to the coil when starting. If this is the case,the one wire will go to the battery source, the other wire would go to the coil, and the third wire will be connected to a starter push button that is grounded when the starter button is pushed.
donQ

09-21-2013, 06:54 PM	#2
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,113	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? Those are not solenoids. They appear to possibly be horn relay and/or maybe a voltage regulator. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

09-21-2013, 06:55 PM	#3
bbrocksr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yakima Washington Posts: 913	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? those are relays, like a light relay or a horn relay. Bill

09-21-2013, 07:09 PM	#4
MadmanWilson Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Reelsville, IN Posts: 44	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? Ah alright the one being labeled IGN SW SOL threw me off. So these didn't have one originally. Will I need to put one on when I convert to 12v?

09-21-2013, 07:17 PM	#5
MadmanWilson Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Reelsville, IN Posts: 44	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? Or perhaps the solenoid is in the foot starter switch...

09-21-2013, 07:21 PM	#6
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,113	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Yes, they did have ONE originally, but it's probably on the passenger side of the firewall. Should be wired BETWEEN the big cable coming from battery post and the other big cable bolted to starter. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

09-21-2013, 07:22 PM	#7
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,113	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? If ya have a foot switch, that should be in lieu of solenoid. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

09-21-2013, 10:19 PM	#8
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? A solenoid is an electrically operated magnetic switch, used for high voltage draw like the starter motor. It can be operated remotely by a simple pushbutton. They are used on '37 and up. '36 was the last year to use a foot starter switch. A relay is also a magnetic switch, but is used for smaller devices such as a horn. __________________ Alan

09-21-2013, 10:40 PM	#11
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? Bill, the solenoid on an early ford does perform a mechanical function: It pulls in not the starter drive, but the electrical switch that then pulls in the bendix drive. Perhaps the bendix drive also has what you'd call a solenoid, I don't know? __________________ Alan

09-21-2013, 11:27 PM	#13
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? Bill, I see your distinction, but must insist that the 'magnetic switch' on the firewall of early fords (and probably most other cars of the era) is very well known as a solenoid, whether technically true or not. Would you, for example, make yourself clear to a supplier if you ordered a magnetic switch for a 1940 ford? I think the clerk would likely ask you to specify more clearly your wish! __________________ Alan

09-22-2013, 06:49 AM	#14
MadmanWilson Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Reelsville, IN Posts: 44	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? Thanks for all the great information guys!

09-22-2013, 08:22 AM	#15
36Bill Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Oregon Posts: 315	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? I would think the foot switch would work fine on 12 volts. Bill

09-22-2013, 08:53 AM	#16
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? What those may be are relays for a solenoid. The one for the overdrive has the same labeling, as it connects higher amperage to the OD solenoid than the ignition switch could handle. As to how they are used here you will have to trace the wires to see what they connect to. The wire from the terminal marked solenoid will most likely go to the device it operates. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

09-22-2013, 08:34 PM	#18
donQ Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 146	Re: Two Solenoids on a 36 Pickup? I can't tell from the photo what the components are, but if they are horn relays, one may be used for the horn, and the other used to bypass the ignition ballast resistor when starting to apply full voltage to the coil when starting. If this is the case,the one wire will go to the battery source, the other wire would go to the coil, and the third wire will be connected to a starter push button that is grounded when the starter button is pushed. donQ