The Ford Barn

A BONED · 10-07-2012, 05:51 AM

I have an intermittant loud metallic type tapping noise from my B model banger mill, tap, tap, tap,......tap,.......tap.
The noise only appears to happen at idle and is not always there, seems to be coming from the timing gear area of the motor. I've taken the timing cover off and run the banger for a short time, the noise is definately coming from the front of the mill, although the aluminium timing gears looks okay. Anyone got any ideas of what it could be?

Gomez.

Mitch//pa · 10-07-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgarage

What is a banger mill? Really?

Banger = hopped up
Mill= motor

Lol = laughing out loud

Jordan · 10-07-2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A BONED

I have an intermittant loud metallic type tapping noise from my B model banger mill, tap, tap, tap,......tap,.......tap.
The noise only appears to happen at idle and is not always there, seems to be coming from the timing gear area of the motor. I've taken the timing cover off and run the banger for a short time, the noise is definately coming from the front of the mill, although the aluminium timing gears looks okay. Anyone got any ideas of what it could be?

Gomez.

Might be a valve

Jerry Huntngton Beach · 10-07-2012, 10:58 AM

Sounds like a loose shock support.

Dave in Boise · 10-07-2012, 11:50 AM

wonder if it might be the bearing surfae of the cam loose in the block, or perhaps a lifter telegraphing the noise into where you hear it by the cam gear?

you could remove the cam gear and check the front of the cam for play..

good luck..

- Dave

Jim Brierley · 10-07-2012, 02:09 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I had a noise like that, it came and went on a regular basis. It turned out to be a worn lifter bore. I reamed the block (while still in the car) and installed Chrysler tappets which cured the noise. These tappets are 5/8" and have a bigger foot so be sure the foot clears the block at the cam bearings and clears the cam itself. I ground a bit off the block and turned down the lifters some. They are also longer, I replaced the adjusting screws with shorter ones.

Lawrie · 10-07-2012, 03:25 PM

Try running the engine with the timing pin removed and a bolt screwed in to touch the timing gear,then start the engine and just screw it in a little bit more,This will stop most noises from the gear,
then you will know if it is the gear.
then replace it.
Put the timing pin back after though.
Lawrie

P.S. · 10-07-2012, 04:24 PM

Where I'm from,

Banger = Gang member who has committed violent crime.
Mill = Where dad worked.
LOL = When the action has temporarily ceased.

Mitch//pa · 10-07-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p.s.

where i'm from,

banger = gang member who has committed violent crime.
Mill = where dad worked.
Lol = when the action has temporarily ceased.

hhheehhe

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-07-2012, 05:11 PM

Jim B mentioned lifter bores, ...and I agree.

One thing I have always wondered is why someone does not offer an oversize tappet manufactured specifically for the Model-A/B engine. One might think there is not a need, but they actually manufacture them for the Model-T engine in 'standard' bore size ...and also in .015" and .030" oversize. I have them in two of my T engines that make the engine much quieter.

Benson · 10-07-2012, 05:54 PM

Egge Machine has them listed in their catalog, standard and .015 oversize.

VL800 MODEL A ADJ LIFTER SET OF 8 $85.00 .000 .015

VL800.015 ADJUSTABLE VALVE LIFTER SET .015 OVER $77.10

They list Model B too but do not remember if the B lifter heels measure the correct .070 larger than the Model A.

http://www.egge.com/site/?d=48&dt=1&...ke=FORD&rpp=10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Jim B mentioned lifter bores, ...and I agree.

One thing I have always wondered is why someone does not offer an oversize tappet manufactured specifically for the Model-A/B engine. One might think there is not a need, but they actually manufacture them for the Model-T engine in 'standard' bore size ...and also in .015" and .030" oversize. I have them in two of my T engines that make the engine much quieter.

A BONED · 10-07-2012, 08:31 PM

fordgarage, the much loved ford flathead 4 cylinder engine has been referred to as a 'banger' since the model T rolled out of Detroit back in 1908.
Similarly, the combusion engine has been referred to as a 'mill' since we began to burn gas and turn wheels. These are not just terms 'Hot Rodders' use, they are endearing terms which have been used forever and ever. Referring to people that use these those terms as yo-yos reflects poorly on your good self.
Now lets please get back to why we are here, and that is to provide much needed tech support for what we love most of all, early Fords!

Gomez.

PC/SR · 10-07-2012, 08:37 PM

Snyders also has the oversize lifters.

1crosscut · 10-07-2012, 08:53 PM

Interesting. Just to satisfy my curiosity I did a site search and came up with 11 pages with the reference to "banger".

dumb person · 10-08-2012, 02:36 AM

i will watch this thread because i want to track knocking noises in engines but... You have to understand that professionals are good to listen to when talking about engines but their opinion of other people are often less important, hard to take them seriously when they think everyone has a lathe & milling machine in their bedroom.
While working on a fuel delivery issue on a survivor car that had only ever had a valve grind and oil pan cleaning a top notch engine builder who happened to be nearby told me i installed the camshaft 90 degrees out when i had rebuilt the engine. Really? i can rebuild engines in my sleep and not even notice? Cool i never knew that, what an awesome skill. Explained to him twice it had never been rebuild but did he listen? No... because he knows everything.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-08-2012, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PC/SR

Snyders also has the oversize lifters.

Yes in .005 and .015. I probably should have made myself a little clearer about the desire for .030 with the larger heal. Thank you for mentioning though.

Cajun · 10-08-2012, 08:33 AM

I had a similar problem with my engine. It turned out that the single nut adjustable lifter had moved. It is my understanding that there has been a problem with these becoming loose.

Milton · 10-08-2012, 11:08 AM

Yes Vince,
Thunder Road, saw that movie at the drive-in in my first Model A.

P.S. The admission to the movie was more than the cost of the car.

columbiA · 10-09-2012, 09:23 PM

Ive found that the lifter bores are more likely to be worn in a B as the lifter gallery is not flooded with oil like it is in an A.

A BONED · 10-19-2012, 06:49 PM

A quick update: It looks like the aluminium cam gear has a little clearance (as it should) with the helical teeth of the crank gear. But the movement of the cam gear can be moved with just one finger meaning that it does not turn the camshaft as well. I would imagine to move the cam gear that is bolted tightly to the camshaft would require more effort.

I still haven't removed the cam gear yet, but am now expecting the cam to flop around a bit on the camshaft even though the cam gear nut is tight. There is however no horivontal movement of the gear (left to right). Is this a common issue? I have no real experience, but would this mean the two locating pins that locate the cam gear on the camshaft be worn? Or the cam gear locating pin holes be worn?

10-07-2012, 05:51 AM	#1
A BONED Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 40	Banger tapping noise at idle... I have an intermittant loud metallic type tapping noise from my B model banger mill, tap, tap, tap,......tap,.......tap. The noise only appears to happen at idle and is not always there, seems to be coming from the timing gear area of the motor. I've taken the timing cover off and run the banger for a short time, the noise is definately coming from the front of the mill, although the aluminium timing gears looks okay. Anyone got any ideas of what it could be? Gomez.

10-07-2012, 10:58 AM	#4
Jerry Huntngton Beach Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 54	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Sounds like a loose shock support.

10-07-2012, 11:50 AM	#5
Dave in Boise Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 330	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... wonder if it might be the bearing surfae of the cam loose in the block, or perhaps a lifter telegraphing the noise into where you hear it by the cam gear? you could remove the cam gear and check the front of the cam for play.. good luck.. - Dave

10-07-2012, 02:09 PM	#6
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,088	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I had a noise like that, it came and went on a regular basis. It turned out to be a worn lifter bore. I reamed the block (while still in the car) and installed Chrysler tappets which cured the noise. These tappets are 5/8" and have a bigger foot so be sure the foot clears the block at the cam bearings and clears the cam itself. I ground a bit off the block and turned down the lifters some. They are also longer, I replaced the adjusting screws with shorter ones.

10-07-2012, 03:25 PM	#7
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,215	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Try running the engine with the timing pin removed and a bolt screwed in to touch the timing gear,then start the engine and just screw it in a little bit more,This will stop most noises from the gear, then you will know if it is the gear. then replace it. Put the timing pin back after though. Lawrie

10-07-2012, 04:24 PM	#8
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,696	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Where I'm from, Banger = Gang member who has committed violent crime. Mill = Where dad worked. LOL = When the action has temporarily ceased.

10-07-2012, 05:11 PM	#10
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,513	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Jim B mentioned lifter bores, ...and I agree. One thing I have always wondered is why someone does not offer an oversize tappet manufactured specifically for the Model-A/B engine. One might think there is not a need, but they actually manufacture them for the Model-T engine in 'standard' bore size ...and also in .015" and .030" oversize. I have them in two of my T engines that make the engine much quieter. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

10-07-2012, 08:31 PM	#12
A BONED Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 40	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... fordgarage, the much loved ford flathead 4 cylinder engine has been referred to as a 'banger' since the model T rolled out of Detroit back in 1908. Similarly, the combusion engine has been referred to as a 'mill' since we began to burn gas and turn wheels. These are not just terms 'Hot Rodders' use, they are endearing terms which have been used forever and ever. Referring to people that use these those terms as yo-yos reflects poorly on your good self. Now lets please get back to why we are here, and that is to provide much needed tech support for what we love most of all, early Fords! Gomez.

10-07-2012, 08:37 PM	#13
PC/SR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,279	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Snyders also has the oversize lifters.

10-07-2012, 08:53 PM	#14
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,909	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Interesting. Just to satisfy my curiosity I did a site search and came up with 11 pages with the reference to "banger".

10-08-2012, 02:36 AM	#15
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... i will watch this thread because i want to track knocking noises in engines but... You have to understand that professionals are good to listen to when talking about engines but their opinion of other people are often less important, hard to take them seriously when they think everyone has a lathe & milling machine in their bedroom. While working on a fuel delivery issue on a survivor car that had only ever had a valve grind and oil pan cleaning a top notch engine builder who happened to be nearby told me i installed the camshaft 90 degrees out when i had rebuilt the engine. Really? i can rebuild engines in my sleep and not even notice? Cool i never knew that, what an awesome skill. Explained to him twice it had never been rebuild but did he listen? No... because he knows everything.

10-08-2012, 08:33 AM	#17
Cajun Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 104	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... I had a similar problem with my engine. It turned out that the single nut adjustable lifter had moved. It is my understanding that there has been a problem with these becoming loose.

10-08-2012, 11:08 AM	#18
Milton Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 837	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Yes Vince, Thunder Road, saw that movie at the drive-in in my first Model A. P.S. The admission to the movie was more than the cost of the car.

10-09-2012, 09:23 PM	#19
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... Ive found that the lifter bores are more likely to be worn in a B as the lifter gallery is not flooded with oil like it is in an A.

10-19-2012, 06:49 PM	#20
A BONED Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 40	Re: Banger tapping noise at idle... A quick update: It looks like the aluminium cam gear has a little clearance (as it should) with the helical teeth of the crank gear. But the movement of the cam gear can be moved with just one finger meaning that it does not turn the camshaft as well. I would imagine to move the cam gear that is bolted tightly to the camshaft would require more effort. I still haven't removed the cam gear yet, but am now expecting the cam to flop around a bit on the camshaft even though the cam gear nut is tight. There is however no horivontal movement of the gear (left to right). Is this a common issue? I have no real experience, but would this mean the two locating pins that locate the cam gear on the camshaft be worn? Or the cam gear locating pin holes be worn?