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Old 08-11-2017, 02:39 PM   #21
Jeff M
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

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Does anyone have pictures on how the keys look installed? I have some I ordered but they look like the ones pictured with two small tapers on each end. They don't have a long taper on one side like the other pictured.

I've never messed with a banjo rear before. I'm going to lap the axles and hubs but want to get the keys right. Also one keyway is pretty loose towards the taper, how does one fix this?
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:57 PM   #22
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

If only the taper were needed for grip, then WHY did Henry do all the extra work to put in a KEY????---Are we over thinking this thing????
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

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If only the taper were needed for grip, then WHY did Henry do all the extra work to put in a KEY????---Are we over thinking this thing????
Bill Commonsense
It was probably standard engineering practice of the day. You didn't question it, you just did it the way you were taught. Or it may have been for the customer satisfaction/safety factor. People would be unhappy with Ford if the dealer mechanic left the nut loose.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

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It was probably standard engineering practice of the day. You didn't question it, you just did it the way you were taught. Or it may have been for the customer satisfaction/safety factor. People would be unhappy with Ford if the dealer mechanic left the nut loose.
I did a brake job on a Chrysler, next morning I had the manager call the customer to stop by, so I could make SURE I put in the COTTER KEYS They WERE there!
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:22 AM   #25
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

When I bought my Model A, one side of the rear axle had a "REX A " carbon steel tool bit for a key. It had been used as a lathe tool.

When we disassembled the rear axle and housing, we were faced with an entire rebuild including axles.

What a mess;
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:00 AM   #26
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

Great reading just checked our 29, nuts were loose. Torque to 100.

Thanks again for the reminder. Your never to old and if you are, you don't know everything.

Enjoy.

Last edited by WHN; 08-12-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:18 AM   #27
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

The use of an assembly compound like anti seize helps to prevent the pitting and galling evident on used axles. On perfect taper applications like machine tools I agree with the clean and dry concept.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

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So the taper on the axle and the taper on the hup is a dry fit only, no anti seize to help take it apart many years later?
Hey Dave,
REMOVAL , at some point in time, is why pullers were made. If proper recommended torque is applied when assembling, that torque + will be used to 'break' it loose.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

I clean the taper and hub with gasolene or cellulose thinners and make sure they really are grease free . The key in ideal circumstances should not be loaded . I worked in the oilfield for a while and you have "tight" then "tight tight" then "tight tight tight" thats what you want,100 ft lbs nothing less . I do not like shims as I dont think you can get a good solid mechanical bond if you use them IMHO .

John in dark cloudy Suffolk County England .
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

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The use of an assembly compound like anti seize helps to prevent the pitting and galling evident on used axles. On perfect taper applications like machine tools I agree with the clean and dry concept.
Galling is the result of movement without lubrication. If the axle nut is tight enough, there will not be any movement to cause galling.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

I put mine at 125 I think or 150 cant remember. Have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:55 AM   #32
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

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Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post
Does anyone have pictures on how the keys look installed? I have some I ordered but they look like the ones pictured with two small tapers on each end. They don't have a long taper on one side like the other pictured.

I've never messed with a banjo rear before. I'm going to lap the axles and hubs but want to get the keys right. Also one keyway is pretty loose towards the taper, how does one fix this?
I'm not sure if this question ever got answered. Are there any clear pictures or documentation showing how the keys are installed? Does the taper point towards the axle end or towards the brake backing plate? Is the taper facing down towards the axle or away from the axle?

Thanks

Dave
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:38 AM   #33
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

No matter what you think about keys. Please check your torque. Reason I say this.

After reading a post earlier this summer on this subject. I took a few minutes, removed rear wheels, and checked the axel nuts. You could take them off by hand.

I had a complete brake job done less than 1,500 miles ago by a really well known Model T and Model A restorer. Even if done properly, they need checking.

Anyway, I re-torqued to100. Everything looks to be OK.

Last edited by WHN; 09-24-2017 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 09-24-2017, 08:48 AM   #34
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

I take mine to 90 then then turn till the slots line up. If the slots line up at 90 I use a different nut. Be sure you use the correct nuts, they are not an off the shelf garden store variety. They are hardened but I can not tell you what grade they are off the top of my head.
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:02 AM   #35
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

Great thread. I am about to change the axles in my car as the right one has stripped threads. They are PROBABLY OK as the threads near the hub are OK but I have a good axle with perfect threads and a perfect keyway so I'm going to use it. The other axle has good threads but the keyway is wallowed out a bit. My plan WAS to have the keyway recut while I have the axles out. Two options, weld up the old one and recut it or just leave the old one and cut a new one on the other side. My concern is with the other thread about the broken axle and that they tend to break right where the keyway starts. Cutting a second keyway may weaken this area more increasing my chance of a broken axle and I don't know what effect welding may have on the axle. After reading tis thread, now I'm thinking perhaps not messing with it, just put in a new key, keep the nut torqued to 100lbs and go. Thoughts?
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:53 AM   #36
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

Not sure anyone answered the question from dahrens 1, taper orientation ? Bratton's says taper in toward diff. and down (in keyway). Other prior posts/ threads may differ.
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Old 09-24-2017, 01:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

Yes, the taper faces down and in.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:31 AM   #38
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

Glad this thread was posted; pulled rear wheels to do some adjustments and found one axle nut loose !! was able to get to 95'# and align cotter. Also, powder coated wheels need periodic checking to 60'#, even with paint removal at nuts, etc.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:29 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rear Axle Keys

Great thread here. After reading I removed the rear wheels and checked the torque on mine and only had 50 # or so on the right side and 75 # on the drivers side. Did a total brake restoration 5 yrs and 1500 miles ago with new parts throughout.
Disassembled to check the condition of the brakes, etc. and noticed the keys were worn.
New parts on order. Definitely will be checking torque frequently from now on.
Thanks for all the information here on the Barn!
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