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Old 03-13-2013, 04:19 PM   #1
highmiler1929
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Default front wheel bearing adjustment ?

previous thread gave measurement of hub movement forward after nut was tighend . thanks for any help. highmiler 1929
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Not sure of your question but remove bearing and inspect then repack if good or replace if bad To adjust tighten to tight then back off about 1/6 and reinsert cotter pin. That is how I do it not sure what spec calls for
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

We've been through this SO many times & some still stick to old incorrect ways! What happens to your toe in if you back it off 1/6 turn??? Might as well not even set the toe in!!! They must be preloaded some. Folks will argue HOW MUCH!!!! I, personally preload mine 10 Ft. Lbs. Bill W.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

i was just packing mine today and was curious about this. I got it finger tight and then took it with a wrench to the next notch. Is this too loose?
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:56 AM   #5
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

I would never have the front bearing tighter than what the weight of a 10" Cresent wrench could give it when setting at the 3 o'clock position.

I spint the wheel while I snug the nut, then back off and very lightly snug again to where thye cotter goes in. I'd rather be too loose than too tight on the nut. I've never had to replace a bad front wheel bearing doing it this way, and never had front end alignment problems. Another way to put the idea of tightness, is to use a pair of pliers sticking straight out (in line with the spindle) and snug the nut. NO TIGHTER than that and you'll be fine.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Do mine mostly like Tom. Still using the wheel bearings that were in my coupe when I got it 12 years ago. The car had not been run since 1938. Probable the original bearings.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

i am also similar to toms way. spin the wheel while working the nut back and forth and ending towards the clockwise position.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

as i recall, an engineer from a bearing co. gave this measurement in thousands. thanks for all replys .
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Bill Williamson is correct. The bearings must have some preload to function. One method I have not seen here is to use the washer behind the nut to determine tightness. Tighten the nut until you can just move the washer with a screwdriver. I don't recall where I learned this, but I have used this method many years.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

This is how Ford specified wheel bearing adjustment in the Jan and April 1928 Service Bulletins

Adjusting Front Wheel Bearing

If there is excessive play in the bearing it can be adjusted as follows: Remove wheel. Withdraw cotter key and tighten adjusting nut until the hub just starts to bind. Then back off the adjusting nut one or two notches until the hub can be freely revolved. Before replacing the wheel, be sure to insert cotter key in adjusting nut.


Important Information on Front Wheel Bearing Adjustment

1. See that front hub, inner and outer bearings are packed with grease.

2. Front hub grease retainer and lock washer should slide over threads on spindle body with fingers (loose fit).

3. Install nut, tighten same so that all component parts are pulled together snugly; that is, inner and outer bearings will be snug in cones, lock washer tight against roller bearing, and nut tight against lock washer. Grasp drum at top and bottom, apply side strain; see that bearings are tight in wheel hub with no side play. (A slight drag will be noticeable when drum is turned.) Not over eight or ten pounds' pressure is required on speed wrench to get these results.

4. Turn nut back two castle slots (this is approximately 1/4 turn of nut); insert cotter pin and try bearings for a slight side play and a free spinning wheel.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

The method described above by Jim Johnson is exacly how I do it. This method is the best way to determine if you have it too set up too tight. That is too say, if you cannot move the washer then it's too tight. I learned this from years of working on Volkswagen Beetles and VW's own shop manuals actually describe this method.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Think of it this way, do ball bearings have a built in clearance?? When loose, you throw it away!!
Does anybody think about that wiggledy woggle thing at times, might be caused by loosey-goosey wheel bearing adjustment??? Some brake noises could be caused by loose bearing adjustment also! Bill W.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

There are many methods of caressing front wheel bearings, just as there is for caressing a fine woman. I attended an industrial bearing class about thirty years ago. As I recall, first tighten the nut home by hand, then tighten it a bit more with a wrench while simultaneouly spinning the brake drum with your other hand. This will preload the bearing (preloading they said was important), keep spinning while tightening, when you feel the bearing starting to bind a little, you stop there, then back off the nut with a wrench untill you feel the tightness dissipate, find the closest cotter pin hole, and you're done.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:14 PM   #14
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Not doin' this to prove how smart/knowledgeable I am. Learned a lot from other mechanics, some through trial & error, seeing failures from other's mistakes/poor workmanship. A lot of car repairs, diagnosing, etc, just requires some common sense reasoning. Like the full contact of wheel bearing rollers against the races to properly support car weight & side thrust, etc. FULL contact also helps the rollers in circulating the grease well.
A proper bearing pack with high temp disc brake grease, can easily go 30,000 miles, with maybe 1 or 2 quick re-adjustments at maybe 10,000 & 20,000 miles. Slick W.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

My $.02 is that I do it pretty much like everyone else. Tighten her down with a wrench, back it off, then retighten with just my fingers. My wheels don't wobble and my bearing don't burn up.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

A rocky mountain front brake drum had a broken hub at the national meet a couple years ago. The outer bearing race split and broke out that portion of the hub from being too tight. I took a picture, but can't find it right now.

If you want to use a torque wrench and preload the front bearing, be sure it's an INCH pound torque wrench and stop at 5 to 15 inch pounds.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
A rocky mountain front brake drum had a broken hub at the national meet a couple years ago. The outer bearing race split and broke out that portion of the hub from being too tight. I took a picture, but can't find it right now.

If you want to use a torque wrench and preload the front bearing, be sure it's an INCH pound torque wrench and stop at 5 to 15 inch pounds.
But was it really too tight, Tom, or maybe NO repacking for 11 years or maybe cheep grease, or maybe some oooold tired bearings were used??? If proper preloading caused burn outs, modern cars would be droppin' like FLYS on the roadways! Example: Earlier Volvo manuals specified, 60FT LBS while turning the wheel, and back off 1/6 of a turn, or 1 castellation. I never remember what the final torque was equal to. Jaguar specified 120 INCH LBS, while turning the wheel & leave it there! Without the proper specs for a particular car, I tighten them 60 INCH LBS (5 FT LBS) while turning the wheel. I don't just "TALK THROUGH MY HAT" as I've been doin' this crap for EONS, seems like. Took a long time to learn things that WORK & things that DON'T WORK! Bill W.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

No, it was too tight. I also loosened the VERY TIGHT right side before it broke.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
No, it was too tight. I also loosened the VERY TIGHT right side before it broke.
OH! sorry, Tom, maybe I'd just better be QUIET!
Buster T. just said, "If you stayed quiet, you'd "BLOW UP"! (Smart alec Dog! He'll sleep in the floor tonight) Bill W.
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

This was the method I was taught for VW Bug, Bus and Type IIIs also as I remember ...





Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Johnston View Post
Bill Williamson is correct. The bearings must have some preload to function. One method I have not seen here is to use the washer behind the nut to determine tightness. Tighten the nut until you can just move the washer with a screwdriver. I don't recall where I learned this, but I have used this method many years.
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

GOD, this is an OLD THREAD, can't believe I read the WHOLE thing, AGAIN!!!
If you ask 17 Guys, "How do you adjust your front wheel bearings"?----You'll get 29 ANSWERS!!!
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

My late 31 Victoria has the Rocky Mountain style front hubs. After replacing the bearings and races and spinning the hub to "preload" the bearings, I still have some in-and-out movement on the hub. It is about 1mm of movement. Is that close enough or should there be no movement? If I tighten things down to eliminate the movement, then everything binds and the hub barely moves. With the movement, the hub spins fairly free with little effort.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks from Houston.

Mike Hanson
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpepper1885 View Post
My late 31 Victoria has the Rocky Mountain style front hubs. After replacing the bearings and races and spinning the hub to "preload" the bearings, I still have some in-and-out movement on the hub. It is about 1mm of movement. Is that close enough or should there be no movement? If I tighten things down to eliminate the movement, then everything binds and the hub barely moves. With the movement, the hub spins fairly free with little effort.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks from Houston.

Mike Hanson
A hair on the loose side is better than too tight.
You might get a better fit by switching nuts with the other side.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by highmiler1929 View Post
previous thread gave measurement of hub movement forward after nut was tighend . thanks for any help. highmiler 1929
Since 2000 have always put a 20 ft lbs then backed off to hole . I average about 1500 miles per month, all has been good . I see MR. Bill does 10 lbs close enough for me , sounds good. I think you might see the 20 lbs in red and blue books. Have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Per Ford there should be slight side play after snugging the nut up and backing off the nut 1/4 turn
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:32 AM   #26
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

I've always used the Goldilocks method for front wheel bearings. Just right - Not too loose and not too tight. Shoot for no preload and no slop. My simple way of thinking is preload would create heat and accelerate wear.
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

FWIW: One humble opinion:

Just like on this Forum, or in our Congress today, or in Model A parts warehouses ..... everybody can witness that not all Nuts are alike.

I have several old, original Model A front axles with accompanying trailer nuts that were once used on trailers years ago; some from old Model A's; and I also bought several front axle nuts from several different places over the past 60 years, including the World famous J. C. Whitney all the way up to Bert's and Bratton's.

No two (2) nuts are alike when tightening front wheel bearings and no two "worn" washers are alike either where the nut forces will differ when the cotter pin is aligned.

With my mechanic Dad born 1902, (who remembered covered wagons and Model T's before "self-starters"), and his professional mechanic brother born 1905, I was taught to try different nuts and washers where there is no loose play in the front wheels when one tries to shake the wheel at top and bottom ....... but also the wheel does not bind when rotated.

First tighten front axle nut to insure that both front wheel bearing races are firmly secure and seated.

Takes a little time and patience; however, if one wants to, the back side of various nuts can be filed a little to achieve this above mentioned degree of perfection that my Dad taught me.

Like Mr. Bill Williamson, I personally do not think front wheels bearings should allow the front wheels to shake.

After sixty (60) years with no Model A front wheel bearing failure ...... I feel just like Clark Gable in the 1939 movie: Gone with The Wind ............ "Frankly my dear, I don't give a Damn" how all other people choose to personally adjust their nuts.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 08-13-2017 at 03:13 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:17 AM   #28
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Wow - my coffee just got cold reading this! This is why I LOVE this site and it is the first thing I do in the morning - OK second....lol. Lots of great advice but what I took from this is: 1) Extremes either way NOT good. 2) A little too tight WILL loosen but a little too loose will NOT tighten. Kind of like beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Last - I hope I get to meet Bill W someday!!!!
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

What makes a Model A different than any other car with similar tapered wheel bearings?

John
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:38 AM   #30
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

How accurate are inch pound torque wrenches? I was speaking with a guy from the Rad Lab that had tested several brands, both inch and foot pounds. All the foot pounds were very close to accurate and he said of the inch pounds none were and some were off by 20%. I go to tight then loosen until wheel will spin with no drag. Check for play and snug accordingly until there is none but wheel still will turn with a little weight at 3 o'clock.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:46 AM   #31
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
What makes a Model A different than any other car with similar tapered wheel bearings?

John
John,
There is NO DIFFERENCE!
AND, remember, if you have LOOSE bearings, your TOE-IN doesn't mean SQUAT
If you like to practice reading, SEARCH for TOE-IN adjusting SKIP the motor oil threads---"EVERYBODY" is an oil "SALESMAN"---LOL---I choose my oil by the COLOR the SMELL & how SCHLICKERY it feels
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:07 AM   #32
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Humble Opinion:

Model A Detergent Oil, Whitewall Tires, and Front Axle Nuts discussed on Model A Forums will always over-excite crowds of Model A owners.

Within a few thousand years, if the Ancient Egyptian Kings ever return to their pyramids and if they happen to delve into reading Model A Forum Emails about Model A Oil, Tires, and Nuts, it may be difficult for them to understand "why" these particular subjects were of such great importance "only" for Model A owners.

Hmmmm ...... maybe something to consider to add to this non-ending Forum discussion !!!

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 08-13-2017 at 10:10 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:20 AM   #33
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Ok what happens when the hub, spindle and bearings warm up after driving and braking. Does that make the preload more or less. or does it stay the same?
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

There should be two methods
1- if you have white wall tires
2- black wall tires
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

I NEVER tire of the "hidden" humor that's squeeked in among these threads!
Later civilizations will find SPARK PLUGS, used for fishing sinkers, in stream beds & think they were an Ancient Art Form???---Since they had numbers, they'll think they were a LIMITED EDITION---LOL
If you think I'm KRAZY, I AM!!
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Step-down View Post
There should be two methods
1- if you have white wall tires
2- black wall tires
How about the oil. if you detergent oil say 10w-40
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:17 PM   #37
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Default Re: front wheel bearing adjustment ?

Ford may have been 100% correct all of the time .............

Some say for Ford's .... Ford said, "It is all just Nuts & Bolts."

After thinking, he never went into much detail in describing his vision of the thousands of Front Axle nut types of Nuts who would try to argue about maintaining his cars 80 years after they were built.
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