F1 Steering Conversion

[Mike34]

I’ve read here and there about conversions to a 48-52 F1 steering box. I’m wondering what the design is that makes it a desirable choice. Is the F1 steering a worm and roller design and what is the ratio?

I’ve put this question on the early V8 site but thought I’d add it here too because somewhat common on Model A’s.

Thanks,
-Mike

[nkaminar]

I run a 1950 F-100 box. It does indeed have a roller and worm so that there is no sliding friction like a standard Model A box. I bought a new roller, they run on needle bearings, and installed it. There is one adjustment which brings the roller in contact with the worm. I was able to adjust mine to zero play at the steering wheel.

I am not sure what the ratio is but it is about 4 turns lock to lock whereas I think the stock box is about 3 turns lock to lock. It is quite easy to turn the wheels even when stationary.

A new box will not cure hard steering that is caused by worn front end parts, like the king pins, or if the front end is out of adjustment. Ford designed the geometry to provide easy and controllable steering but after 90 years things can be worn and out of adjustment.

[Nosetime]

Randy Gross built F100 is hard to beat.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Nosetime

Randy Gross built F100 is hard to beat.

I got my F100 box from Randy for my 29 as the 7 Tooth was shot. Very happy with it, Zero play and it's like having power steering.

[AL in NY]

I'm not a big fan of Randy Gross' F100 steering Box. I bought one shortly after Randy took over the business in 2012 from his father Mel and the box he provided is not a roller and worm gear box. I paid $627.00 and it doesn't lessen the steering effort any more than a properly restored Model A 2 tooth box.

[McMimmcs]

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Originally Posted by AL in NY

I'm not a big fan of Randy Gross' F100 steering Box. I bought one shortly after Randy took over the business in 2012 from his father Mel and the box he provided is not a roller and worm gear box. I paid $627.00 and it doesn't lessen the steering effort any more than a properly restored Model A 2 tooth box.

Did you talk to Randy. He is very receptive to providing assistance.

[Model A Ron]

I got mine from Randy this year and it is amazing.

[nkaminar]

I don't know where my F-100 box came from as it was on the car when I bought it. But it did require a new roller. The roller was inexpensive, about $100, and came with the needle bearings, hardened shaft, and thrust washers. The original shaft is peened over at both ends using a friction heating process and has to be ground out to be removed. The new one can be welded in with very little welding to minimize the heating. Some clearance has to be ground for the new pin to clear the box. The thrust washers have to be thinned slightly to provide the proper fit. It took about a day for me to rebuild my steering box including cleaning and paint.

[Model A Ron]

If your not going for fine point the F100 box is a very good upgrade. Also if your having problems with not having power steering you will love it as it's just like modern rack and pinion steering found in most modern cars

[Mel Gross]

If anybody is unhappy with a steering box or any other products or services that we provide, then let us know as we will ALWAYS make things right. If we don't know, then we can't take care of it.

All F100 boxes are a sector roller / worm gear set-up.

As for a F1 box in a Model A, they are not really the right one to use. The steering shaft on a F1 box comes out on the lower portion of the the top of the box where as a F100 steering shaft comes out at the upper part of the top of the box. If you plan to use the same mounting holes in the frame, then a F1 box will have the wrong pitch and will put the steering wheel into the windshield.

Call or email if you have any questions.

Randy Gross
714-292-8660
[email protected]

[Mike34]

Great information, thanks for the education. I will look into the F100 box.
Thanks,
-Mike

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Mel Gross

If anybody is unhappy with a steering box or any other products or services that we provide, then let us know as we will ALWAYS make things right. If we don't know, then we can't take care of it.

All F100 boxes are a sector roller / worm gear set-up.

As for a F1 box in a Model A, they are not really the right one to use. The steering shaft on a F1 box comes out on the lower portion of the the top of the box where as a F100 steering shaft comes out at the upper part of the top of the box. If you plan to use the same mounting holes in the frame, then a F1 box will have the wrong pitch and will put the steering wheel into the windshield.

Call or email if you have any questions.

Randy Gross
714-292-8660
[email protected]

To anyone considering one of Randy's F100 box I cannot say enough good things about him and his products. We are very lucky to him in the Model A community and he does stand behind his work.

[Country Joe]

I have a 1949 F1. the original steering box is long gone. Does Mel Gross make a steering box for my truck or only for model As? Thanks for any info. ........... CJ

[jw hash]

I`m running two of Randy`s F100 boxes and I have installed four others. I`m very happy with them and dealing with Randy. if you are having a problem with one of his boxes. you should talking to him.

[Pete]

I lke the F100 conversion because of the integral self cancelling turn signal feature.
I do not like it for rough road, especially dirt or gravel, driving.
As is typical of any worm and roller steering it gets a large amount of slack the farther you turn from center.
I have a KSE power steering in one of my model A's but that does not look "era".

[Synchro909]

I wish the F100 steering boxes were available in RHD, parts too.

[jack backer]

Originally Posted by Country Joe

I have a 1949 F1. the original steering box is long gone. Does Mel Gross make a steering box for my truck or only for model As? I emailed him and didn't hear back. Thanks for any info. ........... CJ

Where are you located Joe? I have one for sale

[rotorwrench]

I haven't been looking for a while but they generally show up on flea-pay quite a bit. I'd expect to have to rebuild a used one anyway. The F1 box works well enough on the F1 but has to have extensive modification to work properly on a Model A. These boxes should come with at least the steering shaft. If the OP needs a column jacket then look for a complete assembly. This all makes for a long package. Some folks cut the steering shaft off but that doesn't do the purchaser any favors.

[jeepguy1948]

Ditto to how great the F 100 Box is and double ditto for working with Randy Gross!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I wish the F100 steering boxes were available in RHD, parts too.

Do you have enough room to install it with the pitman arm up instead of down?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Pete

Do you have enough room to install it with the pitman arm up instead of down?

There would be nothing to prevent the pitman arm being rotated 180° on the sector shaft so it points downwards. The big problem would be the misalignment of the mounting holes between the steering box and the chassis.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

There would be nothing to prevent the pitman arm being rotated 180° on the sector shaft so it points downwards. The big problem would be the misalignment of the mounting holes between the steering box and the chassis.

How about welding the existing holes up and drilling new ones? Would that pass your government engineering inspection?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Pete

How about welding the existing holes up and drilling new ones? Would that pass your government engineering inspection?

Thanks for exercising your grey cells on this but no, it wouldn't pass but I figure what they don't know.... The problem is not just the location of the holes but the flange in which the holes are drilled. It would be at entirely the wrong angle to fit inside the chassis channel. To overcome that, we start talking about cutting the body of the steering box, rotating the ned and welding it back on - an even bigger no-no in the eyes of officialdom.
Another problem is the angle of the steering column. With the worm under the sector, the column would be much steeper than the other way around. We then run into trouble with the top column mount and interference with the pedals.
If it were easy, I figure Ford would have done it that way to save costs.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Thanks for exercising your grey cells on this but no, it wouldn't pass but I figure what they don't know.... The problem is not just the location of the holes but the flange in which the holes are drilled. It would be at entirely the wrong angle to fit inside the chassis channel. To overcome that, we start talking about cutting the body of the steering box, rotating the ned and welding it back on - an even bigger no-no in the eyes of officialdom.
Another problem is the angle of the steering column. With the worm under the sector, the column would be much steeper than the other way around. We then run into trouble with the top column mount and interference with the pedals.
If it were easy, I figure Ford would have done it that way to save costs.

Ok on the officials.
If you use an F1 box and turn it over to put on the right side, the shaft is on top now, similar to an F100 on the left side.
I have put several F100 steerings in model A's and 32's by cutting a piece out of the frame where the box mounts and fabricating a new section where the box bolts on. I would never weld on a steering box or associated parts.

[Synchro909]

Welding the chassis is a no-no here too. They don't let us do anything imaginative.

[Oldcarbearings]

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Are the needle bearings caged rollers?,
Or needle roller thrust (washers with needle rollers)&use various thrust washers to take up slack/i.e. shim?.

[rotorwrench]

The Bishop/Tardel book describes how the F1 steering box was modified to fit the model A frame. The end of the sector shaft housing was cut off the F1 box and the stub beveled for welding. A model A sector shaft housing was cut & beveled for welding. The box was set up with sector shaft in place and model A stub installed with bearing for alignment. The stub was then welded to the box so that the box would bolt up to a model A frame. Adjustment of the length & position of the final welded box housing was done prior to welding to give the needed dimension for clearance and a decent fit of the steering column inside the cab. This was a lot of work to put a roller sector steering box in a model A but this was being done before the F100 came out in 1953. Hudson/Gemmer steering boxes were also used and I've heard that they were easier to get a fit. The F100 box usually requires a wedge plate as an adapter but I don't remember if that was for the model A or the 1932 model B/18 type frame.

[Keith Alvin]

I believe Wired customs on youtube had a how to on installing the rebuilt f1 steering box in a Model A.

[Chris Haynes]

Randy also sells restored steering column covers with fresh plated levers.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Hudson/Gemmer steering boxes were also used and I've heard that they were easier to get a fit. The F100 box usually requires a wedge plate as an adapter but I don't remember if that was for the model A or the 1932 model B/18 type frame.

Roger on the Hudson. 1937 was the year of choice. That was before the F100. Early users of a cross steering roller sector box (37 and later Ford) quickly noted that it steered backward if used as a side steer box with the pitman arm down. The 37 Hudson was identical to the cross steer Ford box but the gears were cut the opposite way and were a direct bolt in to the Ford case. Lots of early race cars used Hudson gears in the steering box.

Yes an F100 box requires a wedge plate in a model A frame or cut the frame and make the side rail fit the steering box. Much cleaner and no welding on the box. If done right you have to really look close to see the mod.

[Mel Gross]

FYI

The F100 steering boxes that we sell, do not require a wedge plate.

Randy Gross
714-292-8660
[email protected]

[jeepguy1948]

You can count me in with those that are happy with their F 100 box and Doin Business with Randy both top notch. In my opinion, unless you really, really like messing around with such things, you would be well ahead to get one of Randy's. Although it is a perfect fit when finished there is a great deal of skilled work to get there and I'm willing to bet that in the end you will also have spent more $$. Just my $0.02