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Old 07-28-2013, 08:50 AM   #1
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Making Wood Plans available

I'd wager I get a couple phone calls a month by someone wanting plans to fabricate their own body wood, ...and it seems we see a couple inquiries a month here asking the same. I have thought several times about digitizing my patterns to create a set of plans for different bodystyles but here are two questions I am trying to research first;

.........What is a complete set of CAD drawings worth?


.........How do I keep piracy of reselling the plans from happening??



I guess my reasoning for asking this is do I even want the headache that I have perceived would be attached with this, ...and who would be a typical customer? There have been inquiries about purchasing wood plans for bodystyles such as a Roadster, and I have thought to myself how that is such a very simple kit that could be purchased for less than $175. I have wondered whether that person did not have the budget to pay the $175 for the kit, --or if they even had the skill or tools to actually fabricate from patterns. Would they even pay $50 for a set of Roadster plans? If they did, would they resell them on eBay or Fordbarn after they are finished using them?

Now think those same questions through using a Fordor or a Victoria as the example. Would they spend $500 to purchase a detailed set of plans? After I sold one or two sets of plans, would I see hobbyists copying my set and reselling them to recoup their investment?

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Old 07-28-2013, 09:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

80% of the people you sold them to would not resell the plans or make kits to resell. Making them sign a legal agreement stating such activity would not be permitted would discourage another 10%. Leaving about 10% who know laws and have attorney advice or just don't care would be the ones you would have to worry about. Reselling the plans likely could not be controlled at any level. Selling completed kits would be the only activity that something could be done about. Rod
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:28 AM   #3
Ron W
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

"How do I keep piracy of reselling the plans from happening??"

Offer them FREE!
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:30 AM   #4
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

When I did my '29 CCPU with stretched corners, I was able to buy specific wood pieces instead of a complete kit from Bert's in Denver. However, I suspect that I have at least a thousand dollars worth of power woodworking tools that were necessary to create the top wood! BTW, how often do you see request here for "used" Huckster plans? I bought a set of those plans and the optional DVD from the source and passed them on to the person that bought my semi-completed huckster body.

Being able to buy specific wood pieces makes more sense than offering blue prints or complete wood kits.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

I definately agree with that. Buying just the pieces for the rear door assembly and the risers for the floor would make the deluxe delivery wood easy from there. The guy in Co. that made afew kits for the Deuxe Delivery would not just sell individual pieces. Buying the whole kit would not be neccessary as I have patterns to make some of the common wood other than the header. Rod
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

The problems that you pose are the ones faced by all business. The comments offered so far are all good. My beliefs are that if the price is very good the effort of reselling wouldn't be worth it. A water mark on the drawings would make them hard to easily copy. And finally, any amount of sales is worth more than no sales.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:59 AM   #7
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Hi Brent,

Very sad news for stopping the re-selling of CAD drawings

Just think for a moment-- we cannot control illegal drugs, illegal immigration, Medicare fraud, individuals "everywhere" receiving & selling multiple Food Stamp & Welfare Debit Cards, robberies, burglaries, increased murder & crime in our densely populated inner cities, etc., etc.

Then it would require hiring a costly lawyer & paying high court cost to enforce the stronger 1976 Federal Copyright Laws 17 U.S. C. -102 for copying CAD drawings.

Our history books falsely tell us we got rid of all of the pirates -- we did, that is, just a few on the pirate ships; however, now in 2013, we are presently surrounded by more pirates than we could ever count in one's lifetime.

You are most correct -- plans would definitely be copied by many & passed on to other hobbyist.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #8
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
I'd wager I get a couple phone calls a month by someone wanting plans to fabricate their own body wood, ...and it seems we see a couple inquiries a month here asking the same. I have thought several times about digitizing my patterns to create a set of plans for different bodystyles but here are two questions I am trying to research first;

.........What is a complete set of CAD drawings worth?


.........How do I keep piracy of reselling the plans from happening??



I guess my reasoning for asking this is do I even want the headache that I have perceived would be attached with this, ...and who would be a typical customer? There have been inquiries about purchasing wood plans for bodystyles such as a Roadster, and I have thought to myself how that is such a very simple kit that could be purchased for less than $175. I have wondered whether that person did not have the budget to pay the $175 for the kit, --or if they even had the skill or tools to actually fabricate from patterns. Would they even pay $50 for a set of Roadster plans? If they did, would they resell them on eBay or Fordbarn after they are finished using them?

Now think those same questions through using a Fordor or a Victoria as the example. Would they spend $500 to purchase a detailed set of plans? After I sold one or two sets of plans, would I see hobbyists copying my set and reselling them to recoup their investment?

.
Don't sell them as cad drawings, sell them printed. To scan in the large drawings, or even redrawing them, would be a daunting task for anyone and would most likley deter piracy (but not resale).

You have drawings now. They only make you money if you use them to make a kit. Will you lose a customer if they were to get out to the public. I don't think so.

So you have something that others could use and you will lose nothing if they get out.

But wait, is it fair for someone else to make money on the work you have done? NO it is not. So giving them away is not the answer. Pricing them high would promote piracy especially when the owner actually sees the complexity of some of the parts. Also remember that to have the files printed poster size is not cheap, fedex office charges 85.00 for 24x36. so add it up $500.00 for your files print out only 5 of the sheets)
to better see the actual size of the complex curves) 425.00 brings us up to 925.00 just for the plans. YEA you will see the plans on EBAY in a heart beat. You can't even copyright them to protect yourself.

You will need to find a price point that will get you your money for digitizing the and the labor to get them to the customer that will reduce the temptation to pirate them.

Maybe the better answer is to start a wood kit division of your company selling the kits for less than the others.

The Victoria Assoc has TIFF's of the original drawings for most of the wood. Some are very dark and nearly unreadable. I've taken on the task to clean them up best I can without redrawing them.
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Last edited by Mike V. Florida; 07-28-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

One of my back burner projects is that pile of 1929 60-C Fordor parts, missing a lot wood forward of the rear section. Would buying your plans vs. buying the wood kit or pieces of it be less costly? If all the proper tools were at hand would your plans produce a better product than the kits that are on the market? Bob
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

In these times everyone copies, it could could be- CDs, DVDs, or any of a hundred other things. Think! how many homes have all in one printer units, before the ink dries copies of the plans will made of the plans. I don't want to sound negative but in these times pirating is a fact of life, but I will say that there still are good people out there also we are not all bad!!!!!
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Although there is a risk of copyright infringement, as others have said some money is better than none. There will always be people who cheat and ride on the back of someone elses hard work. Everyone who has ever written a book is faced with your same problem.
My wife is into quilting and makes and sells patterns sold as a pdf. It seems to be the way to go to keep costs down and eliminates problems on your end related to paper/ink/production/time. The first one she did she gave away free so people could tell the quality and ease of use of the pattern. In your case, perhaps this could be a header pattern which is fairly simple. Now you have people out there that can see the value of your pattern first hand, but they didn't have to risk their money for a disappointment.
You have to consider the price point and how you want to sell them. And again realize that the more reasonable the cost, the less people will steal and reproduce them and the more people will buy from you ligitimately. You might do better to use the Wrigley gum theory of business here. Remember, he made a fortune selling a product at a nickle a piece.
If you sold the patterns relating to each section, you could sell them for less and sell more. Lets say you sell each for ten bucks. A guy needs to do the roof bows in his coupe. So he downloads the patterns for 10 bucks. Then a guy needs to do the rear door on the delivery. Ten bucks. But ten guys over the country see it and say, hey it's only ten bucks and click the buy it now to start the download. Now you just sold a hundred bucks with zero cost for paper/print/shipping. How much is a complete pattern going to sell for and will it be priced at the point you might only sell a couple a month. You generally have to discount the value of the individual items to sell something whole.
Keep in mind, I'm no business man, just a backyard jack of all trades so take it FWIW.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

When I left MN 6 years ago a coworker gave me a set of Model A parts photos for the wooden parts with part numbers for most of the models. I have no use for it, but if it will be of use to you B. Terry send me an email to jrelliott42@gmail.com with you address and will send them to you.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:54 AM   #13
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To make all of the wood I need it would take 27 individual prints going piece by piece. Full section prints it would depend on how it wad divided. Rod
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Quote:
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To make all of the wood I need it would take 27 individual prints going piece by piece. Full section prints it would depend on how it wad divided. Rod
Don't forget the bandsaw with a 10" throat, power planer and misc. sanders. FYI, Home Depot and Lowes don't carry a decent hardwood selection.

Brent, go for product sales on an individual basis and forget the plans.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:06 PM   #15
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If the 60-B pieces are the same I may have some of those pieces for patterns if you know how to allow for shrinkage, warping etc. Rod
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Whatever you do, be prepared for a small number of people to be disappointed with either drawings or a kit....that is just a fact of life, so please sure to include some kind of disclaimer for any responsibility...........
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Most that would want patterns would be way to frugal to pay five hundred dollars. I had a bunch of new wood parts that I got in a collection. I let a guy have a header panel for a 30-31 tudor. I knew the guy and only asked twenty dollars for the ready to use header wood. The guy paid the twenty dollars, took the parts home and copied them. A week later the cheap SOB brought the part back and wanted the twenty dollars back.

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Old 07-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Exactly !

Excellent idea.

Give them away for free. The important point is to help get as many A's possible correctly restored and on the road.

So who should organise it and handle the funds needed to provide drawings?

Well, what about organisations like MARC, MAFCA and MAFFI.

Personally, I would much rather donate $100 towards getting Ford archive drawings on the web than building the model A museum.



QUOTE=Ron W;696084]"How do I keep piracy of reselling the plans from happening??"

Offer them FREE!
Ron W[/QUOTE]
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

Embed the purchasers ssn (or other id dats) in strategic places through out the prints.
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Making Wood Plans available

I hate to say it but with the perfection the the 3D printer just around the corner, creating a one off piece will cease to be an issue....no matter what the piece is off of.
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