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Old 07-08-2019, 11:24 AM   #1
Bob Bidonde
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Default 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Please don't suggest I go to the HAMB with this topic. The HAMB is too radical for my liking.



I am going to turn my 1931 Coupe into a mild Banger with no body or fender mods. Here are my thoughts. Did I miss something?

  • It already has a Model "B" motor
  • It already has a 12V 60Amp alternator
  • It already has 1932 18" wheels
  • Lightened flywheel & V8 clutch
  • 7:1 compression cylinder head
  • Shortening the oil drain tube on the rear main bearing to be above the oil level
  • Aluminum timing gear
  • Pair of Ford V8 Model 94 Carburetors
  • Camshaft grind suitable for a pair of Ford V8 94 Carburetors
  • Shrouded electric cooling fan set to run at 160 degrees F
  • Moving the coolant inlet in the block back by the #4 Cylinder
  • Pressurized cooling system with coolant recovery tank
  • Electric water pump at the radiator's outlet
  • Mallory dual point centrifugal advance distributor
  • 1932 Ford radiator shell
  • No front bumper
  • Telescoping shocks front & rear
  • Flathead Ted's brake kit
  • LED headlights
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Water Inlet @ #4.jpg (42.9 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg Bidonde's Coupe 2016 320kb.jpg (92.7 KB, 92 views)
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:41 AM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Sounds like a fun project Bob. A couple of things I saw...


Do NOT shorten the rear main tube as that is a surefire way of having a rear main leak!


Purchase an aluminum head, side cover, barrel cover, and intake to have polished. Nothing much prettier than a well-dressed and 'blingie' Banger.


The 94 carbs will work well however find someone who can equip them with adjustable jets. The 94s are superior in my view over the 97s as you can purchase different vacuum level power valves to aid in tuning.


I would look at a IB340 camshaft. Unfortunately, it is risky to modify a B block for using oversized intake valves, -and if you get too radical on camshaft you won't be able to take advantage of the cam simply due to the small intake valve. I would look at using one of the Duke Hallock exhaust manifolds as they are compatible with most dual intake manifolds.


A couple of other thoughts, ...if you are trying to keep this era-authentic aesthetically speaking, consider using Armstrong shocks in lieu of the tube shocks. Also, a regular water pump will be more than necessary to keep even the hottest of engines cool, especially if you are going to pressurize it. Are you going to add an A/C unit and hide the condenser behind that '32 grille??
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:02 PM   #3
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Bob, sounds great! I prefer a 180* thermostat and a pusher-type electric water pump, but not a big deal. I have never moved the water inlet, but maybe not a bad idea??? Use caution on ignition advance, higher compression needs less advance than stock, I do prefer point-ignition as you plan on. Stock-size valves are all that is needed on a mild engine I ran a similar engine on a dyno and peak HP was at 3900 RPM. I prefer Stromberg carbs, 94's are newer and more sophisticated but also more sensitive to vacuum because of their power valves. Mild cleaning up of the ports help, but use caution as all blocks are not the same, some are very thin, some are thick enough to port more radically and use big intake valves, exhaust valves are very adequate as-is. Diaphragm clutches are smoother than the Borg & Beck V8 clutch. Have fun!
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

I'm running Armstrong's on my Coupe. More than happy with them.

I'd look at running a single carb and stock water pump and put the cash saved towards a taller final drive. I run a 3.54 in my Tourer and Fordor. 3.27 in the Coupe.

Spec on the diamond B engine in my my Coupe,

Single 97 on a Burns manifold
Duke Hallock exhaust
Ported block
Modern reshaped valves
Thomas head
Reground cam
Mallory dual point.

Goes OK. 72mph at Pendine over the standard start half mile, 24 mpg on the 700 mile round trip. No overheating even with solid hood sides and stuck in traffic.

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Old 07-08-2019, 03:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Diamond B in the CCPU in my avatar. Did 69.87mph at the first Pendine meet

Stock except Winfield head (6.7:1? 110psi on my compression tester)
Winfield SU1R cam
Single 97
Lightened flywheel
3.27:1 rear end

Have since changed out scalded dog manifold for a period 'Vulcan' (looks like a Burns) and a mid 30's English Model Y dizzy in place of the 80's Mallory. It likes these changes a lot.

All parts except the 97 and the rear end bought used. You don't have to spend a fortune to get a little more go.
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

thumbnail (84).jpg

Did somebody say bling?way smarter folks than me on here,but I would say do less cooling mods and more of a balanced approach,match the components of the air pump you are building.All the pieces..fuel, compression, valve lift and timing,exhaust..factor all four as a team. Nice mechanical advance single point distributor,KISS..
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

That's pretty - there's a reason I didn't put an engine photo up. It's a bit grubby under the hood...
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

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Originally Posted by Hotrodfil View Post
That's pretty - there's a reason I didn't put an engine photo up. It's a bit grubby under the hood...
The Musil rule:each square inch of shiny adds .2% horsepower..besides you're too busy driving to shine it
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

A comment on cast iron exhaust manifolds such as the Duke Hallock, they absorb and emit heat and much of it goes inside the car, especially bad on a closed-car. They do look and perform nicely. I also run a Y model dist., I like the 10 degree advance curve (20* crank).
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Question Bob. How do you plan to relocate the water in let? To me that would require adding cast iron to the block back there.


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Old 07-09-2019, 04:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brierley View Post
A comment on cast iron exhaust manifolds such as the Duke Hallock, they absorb and emit heat and much of it goes inside the car, especially bad on a closed-car. They do look and perform nicely. I also run a Y model dist., I like the 10 degree advance curve (20* crank).
Are they easy to find in the US Mr B?

If not I'll bring you another one when I'm back in October

Or at least leave it with Sammy

Cheers

A
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Bob,

If I may, I don't think the dual 94's are necessary, much simpler with a single.
If you do run duals, you will probably want to remove one of the power valves and plug it.
Also, you will probably not need the dual point dist, Mallory made a single point or remove one in the dual.
One other thought, by running the electric water pump at discharge of radiator you are changing the circulation in the block, correcting it. I think you will find it is not necessary to move the inlet in the side of the block toward rear.

In any event, enjoy it and experiment. Let us know what you find.

John
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:43 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

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Originally Posted by johnneilson View Post
Bob,

If I may, I don't think the dual 94's are necessary, much simpler with a single.
If you do run duals, you will probably want to remove one of the power valves and plug it.
Also, you will probably not need the dual point dist, Mallory made a single point or remove one in the dual.
One other thought, by running the electric water pump at discharge of radiator you are changing the circulation in the block, correcting it. I think you will find it is not necessary to move the inlet in the side of the block toward rear.

In any event, enjoy it and experiment. Let us know what you find.

John
I agree with John's statement about not needing to plumb to the back of the block if changing to an electric pump. If you totally block off the original water inlet and feed coolant at the back of the block, you now marginally risk running higher temps around cylinders 1 & 2 as much of the water will move to the head and pass through the collection port (that raised section on the head) to the water outlet. I was planning to do the same thing you describe but decided a pump with a bit more flow would get adequate water to the back of the engine.
Another negative to porting to the back of the block...You decrease the value of the block when you make these changes as the next owner may not want the modification.

Good Day!

Last edited by Dave in MN; 07-10-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:31 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Model A engine flows at 160 CFM plus or minus
Single Stromberg 97 or Holley 94 flows at 170 CFM plus or minus
matching flow is where performance is,running 2 97's or 94's is sexy,but double the rated flow of a 'reasonably' stock engine.
Cam lift is where the money is,stock A is .286 measured (with a mic or caliper),IB 340 and C grind .320 measured,measuring isn't the actual design lift,but it does give you an easy reference for swap meet shopping.
Lightening the rotating mass gives quicker response (RPM ramp up) but be sensible,flywheel mass stores kinetic energy,vital to smooth operation..good rule,shave some but not all.

the biggest thing is deciding what you want..a modified flathead banger street engine is different than a racing engine.cooling system requirements are less,lubrication requirements are less,RPM thresholds are lower,not to mention a racing engine has a short shelf life by design and nature.you can build a modified flathead that lives and gives a pleasant seat of the pants power increase if you stick to the script.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in MN View Post
I agree with John's statement about not needing to plumb to the back of the block if changing to an electric pump. If you totally block off the original water inlet, you now marginally risk running higher temps around cylinders 1 & 2 as much of the water will move to the head and pass through the collection port (that raised section on the head) to the water outlet. I was planning to do the same thing you describe but decided a pump with a bit more flow would get adequate water to the back of the engine.
Another negative to porting to the back of the block...You decrease the value of the block when you make these changes as the next owner may not want the modification.

Good Day!

An option that would aid in cooling is something I was going to do years ago on my track roadster, ...and that was to use a ported water inlet that has a threaded bung (-the type when plumbing a water heater) and then tap a -pipe inlet in the side of the head. Using a small 12v electric water coolant booster pump (-available at places like Summit or Jegs) mounted just above the starter would push through the head back to the stock pump. The head is where the heat is located, -and if that water is moved, the heat won't be dissipated down into the block's water jacket area.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:27 AM   #16
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

I have thought about installing a water manifold, similar to what flathead Chryslers use. Plumbing it in the right side and directing water to the exhaust port area as that seems to be where cracks appear.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Railcarmover View Post
Model A engine flows at 160 CFM plus or minus
Single Stromberg 97 or Holley 94 flows at 170 CFM plus or minus
matching flow is where performance is,running 2 97's or 94's is sexy,but double the rated flow of a 'reasonably' stock engine.
Cam lift is where the money is,stock A is .286 measured (with a mic or caliper),IB 340 and C grind .320 measured,measuring isn't the actual design lift,but it does give you an easy reference for swap meet shopping.
Lightening the rotating mass gives quicker response (RPM ramp up) but be sensible,flywheel mass stores kinetic energy,vital to smooth operation..good rule,shave some but not all.

the biggest thing is deciding what you want..a modified flathead banger street engine is different than a racing engine.cooling system requirements are less,lubrication requirements are less,RPM thresholds are lower,not to mention a racing engine has a short shelf life by design and nature.you can build a modified flathead that lives and gives a pleasant seat of the pants power increase if you stick to the script.


I agree, ...and almost to the point of saying that if someone is strong on wanting a built 'B' engine and due to the inherent valve seat issues, -why not consider installing a Serr Miller or one of Dan's 4-port Cragar heads that were designed for street use?
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:13 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

A friend set up a B with a Serr head and all the goodies,he was in it well over 12k..I helped him finish and tune it..what a nice engine it is..afterwords,over a beer I mentioned a pinto engine would have been way cheaper..we are still friends
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:54 PM   #19
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A friend set up a B with a Serr head and all the goodies,he was in it well over 12k..I helped him finish and tune it..what a nice engine it is..afterwords,over a beer I mentioned a pinto engine would have been way cheaper..we are still friends

I also suppose a lotta other engines would be cheaper, ...as in a turbocharged ZeTec or maybe an EcoBoost mated to a Tremec. Kinda changes the whole demeanor of the nostalgia part of car though.
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1931 Coupe Banger Project

I read of all the modifications, then I see--- 69, 72 mph. -----I would think that there should be more speed, ---- my stock car has gone 67 --- stock head, 3:78 rear, zenith carb, and I don't consider it to be at its best yet, don't have it to original specs and tolerances yet
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