Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2019, 02:35 PM   #1
SimplyCosmic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 22
Default Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

Looking through the Brassworks radiator replacement options, I noticed they offer both an "OEM" and "Late 29" option with the primary difference being a wide-mouth water inlet port versus a thin tube.



I was curious if anyone knew the reason for the change.

I'm sure that cost and build time led to the simpler tube, but I'm also wondering if one or the other had better performance.
SimplyCosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 05:52 PM   #2
Magicbox51
Senior Member
 
Magicbox51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Walla Walla, WA
Posts: 488
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

I would be willing to bet that just about any change other than outer style changes were done either to:

(a) Changes to fix a known bug from the original design
(b) Changes to make the part and thus the car cheaper
(c) Changes to speed up or smooth out assembly of the car which translates to "cheaper" to produce
__________________
-Bill G
Magicbox51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-07-2019, 09:18 PM   #3
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,197
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicbox51 View Post
I would be willing to bet that just about any change other than outer style changes were done either to:

(a) Changes to fix a known bug from the original design
(b) Changes to make the part and thus the car cheaper
(c) Changes to speed up or smooth out assembly of the car which translates to "cheaper" to produce

IIRC, the earlier radiator was costly to produce. It had some novel features such as the wide water inlet, and oval shaped tubes.

Ford was negotiating a contract with the Flint, MI supplier for the 30-31 Model year radiators, which did not have the same advanced features and were more of a "mom & pop" radiator which was like being made for at least one other car company: round tubes and the straight water inlet primary among these. Ford reasoned that the taller radiator with more "surface area" would compensate for the advanced features.

To "transition" to the new radiator, Ford agreed to use of available stock of the funnel top and henceforth (late '29) use the 30-31 details in normal radiator production.

This may be covered in the "Ford Model A" by DeAngelis. IIRC, he shows the tube patterns of the radiator changes.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 09:25 PM   #4
Railcarmover
Senior Member
 
Railcarmover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 996
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

Wide top aides thermosiphon system,the A was a combination pump/thermosiphon system.Thermosiphon refers to hot water rising and cold water settling.There were a few subcontractors making radiators for Ford,McCord being one of them.28/29 radiators had round tubes and are quite heavy compared to new ones.
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 09:45 PM   #5
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 13,915
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

Just another reason to add the Restoration Guidelines and Judging Guidelines to a Model A enthusiast library. There is a whole section on Cooling with three pages having to do with just the radiator.


There is too much information to be copied here for specifics. Until Jun 1929 Ford made all the radiators, after that there were three more manufacturers (Long, Flintlock, McCord). tanks changed, some had cast inlet and outlet, the number of tubes (87, 94, 100).
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 11:45 PM   #6
SimplyCosmic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 22
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

To confirm, given a choice between the two, the wider inlet would be the better performer. Correct?
SimplyCosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 06:00 AM   #7
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,197
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

That is generally thought to be true. Although one has to be sure the repop is made AS THE ORIGINALS WERE gauge of tube and cross section, to be sure.

An interesting aside - during the "funnel top" era, Ford did not have issues with radiator fluid being lost down the overflow pipe. As they got experience to the "newer design" radiator, problems with loss of fluid were noted - and instruction in the Service Bulletins (April 1930 p. 450) were added to "bend" the overflow pipe out of the stream of water coming up from the pump - and a production change on the radiator itself.

Today many complain about the pumps moving too much water and cut down the impellers or add a thermostat or orifice to reduce this.

Purchase of a funnel top will probably make the problem go away completely.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 06:41 AM   #8
Railcarmover
Senior Member
 
Railcarmover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 996
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

wide neck also resists cracking. radiator under a lot of stress from vibration,frame movement and wind,the upper radiator hose/neck helps support the assembly.
Riley cured the water overflow issue by slowing down the water pump,the speed the water flows through the radiator cant be altered,the balance between the top tank and core can be slightly altered by extending the tube,but slowing the pump is a far more effective cure.
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 07:45 AM   #9
updraught
Senior Member
 
updraught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: Early 29 vs Late 29 Radiator Design?

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/1930...alveinhead.htm

It says:
"... water pump, head gasket and every bolt, stud and nut are interchangeable with standard Ford parts. No change in construction of any other part is necessary when installing the Riley Head."
updraught is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 PM.