EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Any problems with using some starting fluid to get up and running for the first time?????

eog

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Any problems with using some starting fluid to get up and running for the first time?????

eog

Use sparingly, it washes oil/lube off teh cylinder walls.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Hello all......drained tank and installed new battery......couldn't get it running. Flooding issues. Fuel was dribbling out the carb intake, a continuous drip, drip, drip, until the tank shut-off valve was closed. I'm thinking maybe a stuck float, float not buoyant and allowing a continuous flow of gas, or some grunge in the float valve. Your thoughts, please......

I'm thinking maybe a carburetor re-build is in order.

I think this may not be a Zenith Carburetor. Can anyone look at this photo and identify what carburetor I have? (This is a 1932 model B engine.)

Thank you for any input, advice, thoughts you may have on this......

Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers. This may work, but if I'm going to remove the carburetor, I think I can jury-rig a little better......would have to make up a clamp that suits the purpose a little better.......or, buy another intake manifold?????

EOG

[SoCal_Alden]

Looks like you may have a Tillotson Carb.

[Charlie Stephens]

The carburetor appears to have a rectangular float bowl like a Model B but I am afraid it isn't. The fuel inlet for the Model B is in the front. The reflection from your carburetor appears to be alloy instead of cast iron. The Zenith should say "Zenith" on the bowl. Does yours say anything? The first picture shows a Model A carb with a round float bowl and the fuel line entering from the side and the second one shows a Model B carb with a rectangular bowl and the fuel line entering from the front. My advice would be to find a Model B carb and have its rebuilt (or rebuild it yourself).

Charlie Stephens

[1955cj5]

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I agree...Tillotson...Model X.

Here are some better pictures, the Tillotson name is cast on the side towards the engine...

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Not the typical zenith carb used on most A version engines where the float bowl is in the bottom half of the carb. This is a side bowl carb, sorry do not know enough to ID it. My best guess it is a B Carb.


Just to make sure the ignition is somewhat functioning - take a spark plug lead off a spark plug, and place the free end of the lead about a 1/4 in away from the spark plug post. Turn the ignition on and hit the starter, should see a blue flash/spark across the gap. If not you also have an ignition issue.


If the intake manifold is not sealed, you will run lean, but I think it would still run, just not run well. I would worry about this later.


Sounds like you know some about carbs. If the bowl overfills the excess gas starts leaking out the air intake and/or a small hole in bottom of the air intake.


Take a spark plug out and confirm if it is dry, or flooded with gas.


Check the gas line connection and the carb gas filter to insure it is not leaking there, check the bowl drain plug to insure it is not leaking there. Same with whatever holds the bottom of the float bowl onto the carb.


Next as you indicate 1st things to look at are the float and the float valve. Float - remove and shake it and listen to see gas has leaked into it, make sure it hinges freely up and down. Float valve - remove it and exercise it, clean it out if you can. Reassemble the carb and turn it upside down with the bottom of the float bowl off, blow hard into the gas line connection to see if the float valve seals and does not leak, exercise the float up and down very gently/slowly while blowing and the valve should seal.


Am not familiar with this carb, someone else will need to tell you how to check/set the float level.


That's about all you can do without a through cleaning/adjust of the carb.


If you have a spare working carb, or can borrow one, try swapping, I believe all A motor carbs work on the b motor - somebody correct me if I am wrong.


There are good procedures for the a motor Zenith carb for cleaning/rebuilding/setting. I do not remember see anything for the sidebowl carb. Hopefully others can help.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers. intake manifold?????

EOG

This is why whenever the manifolds are replaced it is best to face them as a pair. This is also why it is best to torque around 35# also.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

I agree...Tillotson...Model X.

Here are some better pictures, the Tillotson name is cast on the side towards the engine...

Yep, thanks 1955cj5.....that appears to be the critter. Tillotson it be. I remember it giving the model number on the side like that, but didn't write it down at the time. There is a model number hand stamped beside the "X" if I'm remembering it correctly.

(Nice lookin' "square back" Model A PU you have there. I'm seeing a few others with some great looking color combinations.....you guys are so creative! )

At this point I don't know if I have ignition problems as well. There were no hic-ups, as I tried to start it.....but, I'm assuming it was flooded from the git-go, so I could have good ignition that was thwarted by too much fuel. I had a friend with me this afternoon when I tried to start it up, but we didn't pull a plug to find out if there was good spark. Just wondering if there is a way to check for ignition if I'm by myself.......looks like this might be a 2-man operation to do it right......?

EOG

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Before tearing into the carb - with the gas on try tapping the float bowl with something like a screwdriver handle, or wrench, or hammer, etc. A couple of times in the past this has worked for me, getting the float valve to seat better.


To check ignition - take a lead off a plug, space it a 1/8 - 1/4 inch from the plug. ignition on. On the drivers side of the motor push the starter rod into the switch toward the starter motor, check for spark. A one man way of doing it.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Before tearing into the carb - with the gas on try tapping the float bowl with something like a screwdriver handle, or wrench, or hammer, etc. A couple of times in the past this has worked for me, getting the float valve to seat better.


To check ignition - take a lead off a plug, space it a 1/8 - 1/4 inch from the plug. ignition on. On the drivers side of the motor push the starter rod into the switch toward the starter motor, check for spark. A one man way of doing it.

Thanks 30CCPU.......I didn't know about this little "tapping" trick.....but, my friend who accompanied me to attempt a 1st start-up, did! We tried that, and were unsuccessful.

I went out to the truck this morning and installed a battery cut-off switch, and removed the Tillotson carburetor. I have it on my desk as I type, but haven't disassembled it yet.

I see your advice for one-man check of the spark.....so simple.....why didn't I think of that! Oh well.....next time out to the truck, and I'll try that.

This is a Model X-F Tillotson.

A couple hours later: Carb has been disassembled and reassembled......thanks to a YouTube video. Only things I found wrong is the float needle valve seemed a little sticky, but couldn't visibly see any grunge in the orifice. After cleaning, it did move freely. There was supposed to be a little gasket around the float needle valve seat, which was missing. I replaced it with a rubber o ring. There was a little grunge in the float bowl, but not much. The main jet, and idle mixture screw seemed ok. (I used a rubber hose and blew into it.....air was passing, so I assume it's all ok......did the same for the float needle valve, ok there, too.)

OK.....wish me luck!!!!!

EOG

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

. There was supposed to be a little gasket around the float needle valve seat, which was missing. I replaced it with a rubber o ring.ok there, too.)

OK.....wish me luck!!!!!

EOG

If you are talking about a washer around the threaded portion of the float valve, it is called a shim washer. You use different thicknesses or multiple washers to set the float height. It is not recommended to set the float height by bending the tang on the float. The O-ring is ok for now but best to get the correct washer(s). Depending on the type of rubber it is it may not hold up with ethanol gas. Ethanol eats rubber.


Good Luck.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

If you are talking about a washer around the threaded portion of the float valve, it is called a shim washer. You use different thicknesses or multiple washers to set the float height. It is not recommended to set the float height by bending the tang on the float. The O-ring is ok for now but best to get the correct washer(s). Depending on the type of rubber it is it may not hold up with ethanol gas. Ethanol eats rubber.


Good Luck.

Hey there 30ccpu.......using non-ethanol premium gas.....the only gas I can get without ethanol.

Bad news......carburetor still leaks like a sieve. Also tried to check spark and couldn't detect a spark. My 13/16 spark plug socket won't fit the spark plug (I see it's 7/8"), so I disconnected the spark plug strap and put it close to the terminal.

I guess the next step is to get a full rebuild kit for the Carburetor.

Does anyone know if a model A intake manifold will fit the model B engine? I see quite a few model A intake manifolds on eBay, not very expensive.

EOG

[Bob C]

Yes the A manifold work and you will notice that the choke rod will
line up better to the carb.


Bob

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Hey there 30ccpu.......using non-ethanol premium gas.....the only gas I can get without ethanol.

Bad news......carburetor still leaks like a sieve. Also tried to check spark and couldn't detect a spark. My 13/16 spark plug socket won't fit the spark plug (I see it's 7/8"), so I disconnected the spark plug strap and put it close to the terminal.

I guess the next step is to get a full rebuild kit for the Carburetor.

Does anyone know if a model A intake manifold will fit the model B engine? I see quite a few model A intake manifolds on eBay, not very expensive.

EOG

Yes the manifold will fit but why are you asking about the A manifold? Is there anything wrong with your Model B manifold? Remember when you change one of the manifolds you will need to bolt them together and probably take them to a machine shop to be milled.

Charlie Stephens

[Bob C]

In post 83 he said the manifold is broken.


Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Bob C

In post 83 he said the manifold is broken.


Note: Front mounting hole of the intake manifold is broken off, and a jury-rig bolt is installed with multiple washers.

Thanks Bob. I read it too fast or in the middle of the night and thought it said exhaust manifold. Rereading it I see he said intake.

Charlie Stephens

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Bought this manifold on eBay, plus Tillotson carb rebuild kit from Brattons.

I assume the only thing the vacuum hole would be useful for, is windshield wipers? I have a single manual wiper on my truck. This manifold has the vacuum hole plugged.

EOG

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Bought this manifold on eBay, plus Tillotson carb rebuild kit from Brattons.

I assume the only thing the vacuum hole would be useful for, is windshield wipers? I have a single manual wiper on my truck. This manifold has the vacuum hole plugged.

EOG

Be sure to bolt the new manifold to the exhaust manifold and have them machined flat as a set. Not doing it may be the reason the last one broke.

Charlie Stephens

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

Bought this manifold on eBay, plus Tillotson carb rebuild kit from Brattons.

I assume the only thing the vacuum hole would be useful for, is windshield wipers? I have a single manual wiper on my truck. This manifold has the vacuum hole plugged.

EOG

Be sure to bolt the new manifold to the exhaust manifold and have them machined flat as a set.

Charlie Stephens