12V Regulator with 6v Battery?

[Bankston92]

Hello all!

My father and I recently purchased a 1929 Model A Pickup.

Needless to say it needs some TLC.

I know this may seem like a crazy question but we are having problems getting the truck started.

I noticed we have a 12v voltage regulator but the truck isn't converted to a 12v system from what I can tell. We still use a 6v battery.

We have timed the distributor, I have checked voltage to read 6.6v and then after the condenser it reads 3.3v but we aren't getting spark.

Could the 12v voltage regulator be causing issues with the ignition electrical?

Thanks for your time! Looking forward to learning and getting this truck up n running.

[1930-Pickup]

Welcome to the Barn! Please post photos of the components in question.

This is complicated question and I'm sure a couple of folks will be chiming in after they finish typing.

[1930-Pickup]

Normally, such as in a 12 volt 3-coil type mechanical regulator, the cut-out coil will need about 9 or 10 volts to pull the battery (system) contact closed. With a 6 v system, the 12 volt coil contact will not close, so your generator will not enter the electrical system at all. Also depends how the regulator was wired in, and what type of regulator you have.

Short answer: probably not, but you should be able to run on the battery.

[Simonpie]

A 12v regulator on a 6v system will just charge 100% all the time, trying to get up to 12V. It might bake out your battery but won't affect starting/ignition. The 3.3V sounds funny. I'd start chasing what's causing that.

[redmodelt]

You should have line voltage at the points, 6.6V at cold start. Do you have an inline resister that is dropping the voltage? If there is an inline resister it could be getting hot while trying to start the car, check the voltage cold.

[Bankston92]

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Thank you all for the quick replies!

I will get back to you with pictures as soon as possible!

Don't have pictures yet but we are measuring 6v on the top plate inside the distributor and 3v on the bottom plate of the distributor. We thought that was correct because of the condensor. I read online that the condenser is supposed to essentially cut the voltage in half so that it doesn't fry the points.

[redmodelt]

It's the resisters ether built into the coil or separate that cuts the voltage down. As it heats up it increases resistance. The condenser acts as a buffer.

[Bill G]

Originally Posted by Bankston92

I read online that the condenser is supposed to essentially cut the voltage in half so that it doesn't fry the points.

I don't think that is true of the DC voltage. The condenser will absorb the coil's kick-back voltage across the points when running, but the condenser will not load the DC voltage down one bit at rest.

[Mike V. Florida]

Ok, let's forget the regulator for a moment.

Here is a drawing of the wiring. You should have 6 volts going into the distributor at the bottom plate with the points open. The wire from the bottom plate takes the 6 volts to the upper plate at the points. Again with the points open, you should have 6 volts at the points. with the points closed, 0 volts

The condenser has no effect on the battery voltage at the points. If it does you have one or more of the following; a bad condenser, missing insulator on the condenser flat plate. other causes of incorrect voltages are; the distributor cable screwed in too far, bad connections on the wire from the bottom plate to the top plate.

Are there any markings on the coil?

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Bankston92

I noticed we have a 12v voltage regulator but the truck isn't converted to a 12v system from what I can tell. We still use a 6v battery.

What makes you think you have a 12v regulator?
Do you have a generator or alternator?
Positive ground or negative ground?
Are the headlights a separate bulb or sealed beam?

[Bankston92]

Alright, so I was talking with my dad today over the phone about what I am hearing from you guys. Thank you again for your time. We greatly appreciate it.

Mike, the drawing you show is great. We have something a little different though which I'm going to try to change tomorrow or Monday.

Our battery has two black cables. The hot side of the battery is going into the negative side of the voltage regulator and then the cold side is going to the frame of the vehicle.

What I am planning on doing is removing the 12v regulator. Moving the hot wire to the frame and cold to the starter switch like your drawing shows.

Also, the truck has a generator not an alternator.

The reason we think we have a 12v regulator is the person who sold it to us said they put one on it.

The headlights are the 6v headlights I believe they are sealed.

So as of right now we are showing ~6v on the bottom plate of the distributor and ~3v on the top plate. Another thing to mention is we purchased new plates from Macs and we ended up using the top plate and keeping the old bottom plate. So that wire that people refer to that runs from the bottom to the top plate doesn't exist in our distributor.

I'm not sure if there are any markings on the coil. I will take a better look either tomorrow or Monday when I'm up at the ranch. Are there specifics markings I should be looking for?

Also, with me planning on removing the 12v regulator is the 6v regulator built into the generator or the coil and how can I verify that?

Thank you again for your time!

[quickchange]

Does the engine run , If not does it fire ? You say you timed it ?? If no fire then you might have it 180 out , IE timming pin drops in dent & you have rotor at no1 but you could be 1/2 a turn out, Derek in a stinkin hot NZ needing rain,

[michael a]

Originally Posted by quickchange

Does the engine run , If not does it fire ? You say you timed it ?? If no fire then you might have it 180 out , IE timming pin drops in dent & you have rotor at no1 but you could be 1/2 a turn out, Derek in a stinkin hot NZ needing rain,

I'm not calling you with the hot and cold business you have to tell us if it's positive on the battery or negative on the battery either one could be hot either one could be cold just depends on how it's hooked up do you see the problem

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[Mike V. Florida]

We need pictures!

I'm having problems understanding how the power is getting from the original bottom plate to the new upper plate without a wire.

Is your distributor stock?
Is it using the more modern upper plate?

Thus the need for pictures. You need to get the 6 volts to the points if you want it to run.

What is different in the wiring from the diagram I supplied?

The Generator uses the battery as the regulator.

I don't understand why anyone would install a "12 volt" regulator in a 6-volt system. It can't regulate anything.

Pictures, pictures, pictures, please so we can understand that you have and get your car to run.

[katy]

The reason we think we have a 12v regulator is the person who sold it to us said they put one on it.

Did they say a "12V regulator" or just "a regulator"?

I'm not sure if there are any markings on the coil. I will take a better look either tomorrow or Monday when I'm up at the ranch. Are there specifics markings I should be looking for?

The engine will tun w/the coil connected properly or backwards, but it will run better when it's connected properly

[Patrick L.]

I'm wondering if this monster is really using a 6v battery since its mentioned the battery 'hot' [ whatever that means] goes to the regulator while the battery 'cold' goes to ground.

Originally these monsters had positive ground electrical systems. I'm thinking that what is meant by 'hot' lead is positive.

Points are wired the same as the battery ground. If positive ground, the positive from coil primary should go to the point arm. As mentioned, there should be 6v at the point arm [ even with 12v system]. Once the point arm closes [ ground] the voltage should be zero.

Hold the coil secondary lead 1/2 " from a good ground, turn on key and crank the engine over. There should be a good spark from that lead to ground. If the timing is correct then the ignition circuit should be fine.[ timing pin should be used correctly and the rotor should point toward the right fender/head light]. Set the point gap to .020" before setting the timing.

[redmodelt]

Chances are it's a cutout not a regulator. Unless the gen has been changed to 3 wire or one of the modern regulator for original systems (one wire). People often just call the cutout a regulator out of habit.

[Keith True]

I think we need detailed pictures of what you have.In one post you have 3.3 V at the bottom plate,and 6 V to the top plate.Then you say it is the opposite.I don't know what you mean by,6 volts before the condenser and 3 volts after.How do you measure after the condenser?The thing that confuses me though,is you said you used just the new top plate and kept the old bottom,with no wire.How are you connecting,with no wire? There must be some connection there,as you seem to be getting something to measure.You say the battery cable is connected to the regulator??? That ain't right.Hot is whatever is connected to the starter,it could be either positive or negative.Supposed to be positive on the A.

[michael a]

Originally Posted by Keith True

I think we need detailed pictures of what you have.In one post you have 3.3 V at the bottom plate,and 6 V to the top plate.Then you say it is the opposite.I don't know what you mean by,6 volts before the condenser and 3 volts after.How do you measure after the condenser?The thing that confuses me though,is you said you used just the new top plate and kept the old bottom,with no wire.How are you connecting,with no wire? There must be some connection there,as you seem to be getting something to measure.You say the battery cable is connected to the regulator??? That ain't right.Hot is whatever is connected to the starter,it could be either positive or negative.Supposed to be positive on the A.

I love that truck if I could fit in one I'd have one

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Chances are it's a cutout not a regulator. Unless the gen has been changed to 3 wire or one of the modern regulator for original systems (one wire). People often just call the cutout a regulator out of habit.

He is new and does not know about the car, hence the request for pictures as he could have just about anything as a generator.