The Ford Barn

jdp8402 · 10-02-2015, 01:56 PM

Here's a picture of what I'm dealing with.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 10-02-2015, 02:10 PM

Yep, all too familiar. Why are you not repairing it correctly??

jdp8402 · 10-02-2015, 02:30 PM

What do you mean by correctly?

DJ S · 10-02-2015, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdp8402

What do you mean by correctly?

By correctly he means removing it, sending it out to a shop where it will get cut open, sand blasted, sealed, and reassembled.

jdp8402 · 10-02-2015, 02:46 PM

I don't know of any shop that does that kind of work. All that I have in my area is a radiator shop that could boil it out. I'm avoiding that as of now because I'm not wanting to do any body work yet. What good is a pretty car if it doesn't run. I have read a lot of positive reviews about evaporust so I'm going to give it a try.

H. L. Chauvin · 10-02-2015, 03:00 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Hi Jeff,

Not trying to sound like a devout Christian Missionary in Iran trying to change religious beliefs .............. or trying to change Model A Forum Rust-Religions during the past 20 or so years; however:

1. Ever look at a 1700's musket barrel that is rusted as opposed to blued, and very well preserved.

2. The rust finish is still there after 300 years ...... the finish is "rust", a forgotten gunsmith created gun finish known as Browning, made with intentional layers of "rust", where "rust" is the "protective" coating.

3. Your tank is rusty ....... remove the rust with vinegar, molasses, Evapo-rust, acid, or whatever and one will have exposed bare steel in gas tanks or exposed bare cast iron in engine blocks, which invites "new" rust to start eating away at the rust pits and deterioration already caused by the former 80 year old rust.

3. The Cor-Ten rust coating article below, (with FAQ), can be incorporated into the Model A Rust Fighting Religion on Model A Forums; it has been practiced by vintage gunsmiths for over 300 years, and is presently working on thousands of building construction projects.

4. In my opinion, one option to removing all "rust" protection on 80 year old metal created by former "rust" in a Model A gas tank, is to install an in-tank cylindrical filter above the shut-off valve, add Marvel Mystery oil to your gas, try to maintain a full tank at all times, and start driving.

http://www.corten.com/frequently-asked-questions.html

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-02-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aok

My tank was not real rusty but enough flakes to to slow up gas flow.
I stalled the "dirty leg", basically a drip leg coming off the bottom of the tank. It it works well for me no more fuel problems.

Aok,
Install the stainless "pencil" filter in the top of your fuel shut off valve, THEY'RE A GODSEND against flakes in your gas tank. I've never heard of one plugging up.
Bill W.

Tom Wesenberg · 10-02-2015, 07:17 PM

I agree with Bill. I install the filters in all the valves, even though my tanks look spotless inside.

It also helps prevent scoring on the tank valve tapered part.

H. L. Chauvin · 10-02-2015, 07:51 PM

After 80+ years we see rust protecting old metal on railroad rails, railroad spikes, Model A and vintage vehicle gas tanks, old muzzle loader weapons, etc.

Remove the protective rust crust and bumps and we then can see shiny rust pits in the metal.

As hinted in reply no. 20 & 37, after removing rust, with no follow up with a protective coating, when the shiny metal begins to rust the 2nd time, the initial rust pits will get deeper.

At this rate of continually removing rust, and allowing shiny metal to rust again, after time, one can create a gas tank that can hold gas as well as a screen door.

Al 29Tudor · 10-02-2015, 07:58 PM

After cleaning it as best you can and adding the screen in the tank to hold off the big pieces and adding the drip leg under the tank, you can place a small magnet in the glass sediment bowl in the engine compartment.
Just a thought.
Al

ian Simpson · 10-02-2015, 09:20 PM

I have a little rust problem in the gas tank evidenced by some flakes collecting in the sediment bowl earlier this year. Looking in the tank did not reveal a significant rust issue. As a remedy I fitted a Wix (NAPA) filter in the sediment bowl and dropping a small powerful magnet in the bottom of the bowl, I also add a couple of ounces of two-cycle oil to each tank fill-up and plan on fitting a dirty leg.

To date I have not had any problem caused by the rust flakes.

jdp8402 · 10-02-2015, 10:15 PM

So I'm pretty much gathering that I shouldn't use the evaporust.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-03-2015, 12:08 AM

With a "pencil" filter, you won't get flakes in the "dirty leg" & it prevents flakes from plugging up or scoring the fuel valve, like Tom W. said.
When you order the "pencil" filter, buy a dozen & give them to your friends. I know friends that have really FLAKEY tanks & with that filter, NEVER have a problem! With it, & a standard sediment bowl & the filter in the top of the Zenith, you'll be set for TROUBLE FREE miles.
OH, I found out that the "pencil" filter DOESN'T restrict the flow, on Minerva, with 1/2 tank of gas, it would flow a 6" stream of gas from the disconnected gas line at the carb!
Bill W. & The Rat Dog

H. L. Chauvin · 10-03-2015, 12:10 AM

Hi Jeff,

Just one opinion, and one bunch of past experiences:

1. First, it is difficult for anyone to "see" the condition of your tank from miles away; so expect guesses.

2. Difficult for anyone to guess how many times your tank may have been "de-rusted" and "re-rusted"; and/or if you are on the verge of having rusted out gas tank pin holes; more guesses.

3. If you do not have old "dissolving" and "peeling" former gas tank liquid sealer, consider yourself very lucky ..... difficult situation.

4. Vintage vehicles operating with rusty fuel tanks in old vintage 80+ year old vehicles of all sorts are as common as old men over 80 running around with grey hair and aching joints ............... nothing at all new ........... the rust is not always attractive, and neither is the gray hair attractive ........ especially in a disco joint night club full of young people.

5. Draining fuel, filtering it, and adding back to a tank at "any" time can never hurt to remove rust & dirt particles.

6. The in tank cylindrical screen, NAPA fuel filter in glass bowl, and MMO to penetrate the tank's porous metal works great.

7. We oil old rusty guns, we oil old rusty tools ...... nothing wrong with oiling a rusty gas tank with MMO either ....... 4 ounces per 10 gallons ....... most vintage mechanics I knew always recommended this in our humid climate ....... it always worked.

But just one opinion ......... from far away ...... just trying to help.

Mitch//pa · 10-03-2015, 12:56 AM

evaporust the tank
flush tank with fuel combined with heavy MMO mixture
install pencil filter
install wix filter in glass bowl
refill with fresh gas and fresh MMO

dont be scared into trying this route it works vs removing the tank.
a rusty tank is a deal breaker for me when purchasing a car, its not worth the agg IMO, but you knew to check for this going in.

H. L. Chauvin · 10-03-2015, 09:47 AM

Hi Jeff,

Just one opinion from many experiences by applying Browning rust protection.

Evaporust advertises it will not just remove rust, but will remove bluing and Browning rust protection provided on guns by vintage gunsmiths.

If you are "not" going to provide a "protective coating" after rust removal, I would not use Evaporust.

The first time one forgets adding MMO ........ (and guess how many Model A owners have CRS) ........ gas will wash out the MMO in the shiny metal ...... the shiny tank gets low on fuel ......... and the rust starts all over a second time eating away on the already thinner shiny metal rust pits.

The Cor-Ten FAQ in reply 46 explains protecting metal with rust.

I have a "rusty" corrugated galvanized roof today on a building that is 97 years old, and the roof does "not" leak.

The rust was never removed with Evaporust, vinegar, molasses or any other chemical ...... however ......... had I removed this rust protective coating with chemicals several times .......... the "re-rusting" on the thinner shiny metal pits in the metal would have eaten holes therein.

But again, one opinion.

ronn · 10-03-2015, 10:08 AM

vinegar is the "poor" mans method for evaporust. Takes a bit longer, but am in no hurry.

10 gallons of vinegar is between 10. and 20. bucks..............

works great on radiators where you dont want something overly caustic.

FL&WVMIKE · 10-03-2015, 10:42 AM

I am all for using the vinegar. You have to let it set longer to dissolve the rust. If you get in too much of a hurry, it just might only loosen the rust.
It is a very mild acid and not harmful to the environment.
MIKE (mikeburch)

Brentwood Bob · 10-03-2015, 11:44 AM

A weak point in the gas tank construction/design is the riveted/soldered support for the steering column. look there for weeping after the derusto treatment.
Bob

jdp8402 · 10-03-2015, 12:20 PM

My plan is to use the evaporust and get the tank cleaned out. I'll use MMO with the fuel until I can get the tank off and use something like POR 15. Evaporust claims that their product does not eat away at any metals. I understand that any new rust that forms will eat away at the tank but I'm hoping that I can control the rusting until I have a chance to use some kind of tank liner. What do you guys suggest for a tank lining? Is POR 15 the best out there?

10-02-2015, 02:10 PM	#42
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,513	Re: Rusty fuel tank. Yep, all too familiar. Why are you not repairing it correctly?? __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

10-02-2015, 02:30 PM	#43
jdp8402 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Nebraska Posts: 79	Re: Rusty fuel tank. What do you mean by correctly?

10-02-2015, 02:46 PM	#45
jdp8402 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Nebraska Posts: 79	Re: Rusty fuel tank. I don't know of any shop that does that kind of work. All that I have in my area is a radiator shop that could boil it out. I'm avoiding that as of now because I'm not wanting to do any body work yet. What good is a pretty car if it doesn't run. I have read a lot of positive reviews about evaporust so I'm going to give it a try.

10-02-2015, 03:00 PM	#46
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Rusty fuel tank. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hi Jeff, Not trying to sound like a devout Christian Missionary in Iran trying to change religious beliefs .............. or trying to change Model A Forum Rust-Religions during the past 20 or so years; however: 1. Ever look at a 1700's musket barrel that is rusted as opposed to blued, and very well preserved. 2. The rust finish is still there after 300 years ...... the finish is "rust", a forgotten gunsmith created gun finish known as Browning, made with intentional layers of "rust", where "rust" is the "protective" coating. 3. Your tank is rusty ....... remove the rust with vinegar, molasses, Evapo-rust, acid, or whatever and one will have exposed bare steel in gas tanks or exposed bare cast iron in engine blocks, which invites "new" rust to start eating away at the rust pits and deterioration already caused by the former 80 year old rust. 3. The Cor-Ten rust coating article below, (with FAQ), can be incorporated into the Model A Rust Fighting Religion on Model A Forums; it has been practiced by vintage gunsmiths for over 300 years, and is presently working on thousands of building construction projects. 4. In my opinion, one option to removing all "rust" protection on 80 year old metal created by former "rust" in a Model A gas tank, is to install an in-tank cylindrical filter above the shut-off valve, add Marvel Mystery oil to your gas, try to maintain a full tank at all times, and start driving. http://www.corten.com/frequently-asked-questions.html

10-02-2015, 07:17 PM	#48
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Rusty fuel tank. I agree with Bill. I install the filters in all the valves, even though my tanks look spotless inside. It also helps prevent scoring on the tank valve tapered part.

10-02-2015, 07:51 PM	#49
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Rusty fuel tank. After 80+ years we see rust protecting old metal on railroad rails, railroad spikes, Model A and vintage vehicle gas tanks, old muzzle loader weapons, etc. Remove the protective rust crust and bumps and we then can see shiny rust pits in the metal. As hinted in reply no. 20 & 37, after removing rust, with no follow up with a protective coating, when the shiny metal begins to rust the 2nd time, the initial rust pits will get deeper. At this rate of continually removing rust, and allowing shiny metal to rust again, after time, one can create a gas tank that can hold gas as well as a screen door.

10-02-2015, 07:58 PM	#50
Al 29Tudor Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 648	Re: Rusty fuel tank. After cleaning it as best you can and adding the screen in the tank to hold off the big pieces and adding the drip leg under the tank, you can place a small magnet in the glass sediment bowl in the engine compartment. Just a thought. Al

10-02-2015, 09:20 PM	#51
ian Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 709	Re: Rusty fuel tank. I have a little rust problem in the gas tank evidenced by some flakes collecting in the sediment bowl earlier this year. Looking in the tank did not reveal a significant rust issue. As a remedy I fitted a Wix (NAPA) filter in the sediment bowl and dropping a small powerful magnet in the bottom of the bowl, I also add a couple of ounces of two-cycle oil to each tank fill-up and plan on fitting a dirty leg. To date I have not had any problem caused by the rust flakes.

10-02-2015, 10:15 PM	#52
jdp8402 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Nebraska Posts: 79	Re: Rusty fuel tank. So I'm pretty much gathering that I shouldn't use the evaporust.

10-03-2015, 12:08 AM	#53
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Rusty fuel tank. With a "pencil" filter, you won't get flakes in the "dirty leg" & it prevents flakes from plugging up or scoring the fuel valve, like Tom W. said. When you order the "pencil" filter, buy a dozen & give them to your friends. I know friends that have really FLAKEY tanks & with that filter, NEVER have a problem! With it, & a standard sediment bowl & the filter in the top of the Zenith, you'll be set for TROUBLE FREE miles. OH, I found out that the "pencil" filter DOESN'T restrict the flow, on Minerva, with 1/2 tank of gas, it would flow a 6" stream of gas from the disconnected gas line at the carb! Bill W. & The Rat Dog __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF" Last edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 10-03-2015 at 12:14 AM.

10-03-2015, 12:10 AM	#54
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Rusty fuel tank. Hi Jeff, Just one opinion, and one bunch of past experiences: 1. First, it is difficult for anyone to "see" the condition of your tank from miles away; so expect guesses. 2. Difficult for anyone to guess how many times your tank may have been "de-rusted" and "re-rusted"; and/or if you are on the verge of having rusted out gas tank pin holes; more guesses. 3. If you do not have old "dissolving" and "peeling" former gas tank liquid sealer, consider yourself very lucky ..... difficult situation. 4. Vintage vehicles operating with rusty fuel tanks in old vintage 80+ year old vehicles of all sorts are as common as old men over 80 running around with grey hair and aching joints ............... nothing at all new ........... the rust is not always attractive, and neither is the gray hair attractive ........ especially in a disco joint night club full of young people. 5. Draining fuel, filtering it, and adding back to a tank at "any" time can never hurt to remove rust & dirt particles. 6. The in tank cylindrical screen, NAPA fuel filter in glass bowl, and MMO to penetrate the tank's porous metal works great. 7. We oil old rusty guns, we oil old rusty tools ...... nothing wrong with oiling a rusty gas tank with MMO either ....... 4 ounces per 10 gallons ....... most vintage mechanics I knew always recommended this in our humid climate ....... it always worked. But just one opinion ......... from far away ...... just trying to help.

10-03-2015, 12:56 AM	#55
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Rusty fuel tank. evaporust the tank flush tank with fuel combined with heavy MMO mixture install pencil filter install wix filter in glass bowl refill with fresh gas and fresh MMO dont be scared into trying this route it works vs removing the tank. a rusty tank is a deal breaker for me when purchasing a car, its not worth the agg IMO, but you knew to check for this going in.

10-03-2015, 09:47 AM	#56
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Rusty fuel tank. Hi Jeff, Just one opinion from many experiences by applying Browning rust protection. Evaporust advertises it will not just remove rust, but will remove bluing and Browning rust protection provided on guns by vintage gunsmiths. If you are "not" going to provide a "protective coating" after rust removal, I would not use Evaporust. The first time one forgets adding MMO ........ (and guess how many Model A owners have CRS) ........ gas will wash out the MMO in the shiny metal ...... the shiny tank gets low on fuel ......... and the rust starts all over a second time eating away on the already thinner shiny metal rust pits. The Cor-Ten FAQ in reply 46 explains protecting metal with rust. I have a "rusty" corrugated galvanized roof today on a building that is 97 years old, and the roof does "not" leak. The rust was never removed with Evaporust, vinegar, molasses or any other chemical ...... however ......... had I removed this rust protective coating with chemicals several times .......... the "re-rusting" on the thinner shiny metal pits in the metal would have eaten holes therein. But again, one opinion. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 10-03-2015 at 09:49 AM. Reason: typo

10-03-2015, 10:08 AM	#57
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: Rusty fuel tank. vinegar is the "poor" mans method for evaporust. Takes a bit longer, but am in no hurry. 10 gallons of vinegar is between 10. and 20. bucks.............. works great on radiators where you dont want something overly caustic.

10-03-2015, 10:42 AM	#58
FL&WVMIKE Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Daytona Beach, Fl & Spencer, W. Va, Posts: 4,442	Re: Rusty fuel tank. I am all for using the vinegar. You have to let it set longer to dissolve the rust. If you get in too much of a hurry, it just might only loosen the rust. It is a very mild acid and not harmful to the environment. MIKE (mikeburch)

10-03-2015, 11:44 AM	#59
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,244	Re: Rusty fuel tank. A weak point in the gas tank construction/design is the riveted/soldered support for the steering column. look there for weeping after the derusto treatment. Bob

10-03-2015, 12:20 PM	#60
jdp8402 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Nebraska Posts: 79	Re: Rusty fuel tank. My plan is to use the evaporust and get the tank cleaned out. I'll use MMO with the fuel until I can get the tank off and use something like POR 15. Evaporust claims that their product does not eat away at any metals. I understand that any new rust that forms will eat away at the tank but I'm hoping that I can control the rusting until I have a chance to use some kind of tank liner. What do you guys suggest for a tank lining? Is POR 15 the best out there?