1957 Monarch Power Brakes, hard to push pedal.

[rjlester]

Hey guys, first time poster here!

I just bought a 57 Monarch Richelieu here in Canada. It sat for years but they fired it up a couple times a year and drove it in the yard sometimes. The 312 runs great, pushbutton trans is incredible.

Brakes were questionable, took all the drums off. New shoes all the way around, wheel cylinders look great. Lubed the adjusters and reassembled. Made a big difference, raised the pedal nicely but still needs lots of pedal pressure. I think the "power" in my power brakes isn't working. There is some kind of a diaphragm with wires going to it that is tied to the vacuum for the brakes. How does this work? The vacuum pump on the fuel pump has vacuum, not sure about the electric diaphragm though. Master cylinder is an odd looking one, has lots of clean fluid in it.

Also, there is a gauge on the dash called "power booster" On/off what is that?

Any ideas are appreciated!

[mercman from oz]

Covers of the 1957 Monarch Sales Brochures

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by rjlester

. . . I think the "power" in my power brakes isn't working. There is some kind of a diaphragm with wires going to it that is tied to the vacuum for the brakes. How does this work? . . .

Posting photos here isn't always as easy as it could be but... if you can include a couple pictures of the brake booster in question it may be helpful in identifying it.
Vehicles built in Canada (and their parts) can be very different than ones built in the US.

[rjlester]

It looks like this:

https://s.yimg.com/aah/yhst-44448601...witem-1415.gif

There also appears to be a large vacuum tank inside the drivers side fender. Is there a one-way check valve somewhere that might be causing the problem?

[miker98038]

Looks like a treadle vac. This is a link to the HAMB, should get you started. Whole different animal than what most of us are used to.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...c-fix.1273329/

[rjlester]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Yes, it's a treadle vac. I'm thinking I have a vacuum issue, but not sure yet.

The thread on that forum is for a Packard, but some of what they are saying applies. Most of those guys had crystallized brake fluid and had to rebuild, mine looks like new inside (at least what I can actually see).

[rjlester]

Found this video, its a teardown of the vacuum booster. I suspect this is what I need to do, get a rebuild kit and do it right. Once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKbnYmPj9a8

[KULTULZ]

Diagnose the system before tearing into it ($$$).

- https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/v...diagnosis.html

GO TO - Testing a Vacuum Brake Booster

Get back -

[mercman from oz]

Power Booster - 1957 Monarch - rjlester

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by rjlester

Found this video, its a teardown of the vacuum booster. I suspect this is what I need to do, get a rebuild kit and do it right. Once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKbnYmPj9a8

Thanks you for posting the video. I wish I had it 10 years ago, when I rebuilt my treadle vac, from my 53' Merc.

Here is one, not a video, but just with pictures and a description:

http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?t=149

[rjlester]

Hey guys, an update to the treadle vac saga. A bit more background info may help you all to understand the dilemma I'm getting into.

I bought this car, almost sight unseen from a local online auction. The reason I bought it, is it is almost the exact twin to my Dads second car, a 57 Monarch Richelieu 4 door, blue and white. My parents always talked about how they loved that car, Dad bought it while they were dating, and it was their wedding/honeymoon car. Mom passed away a number of years back.

Despite the body being a bit rough (not much rust at all, just a lot of flaking paint and some bondo/dents) the engine runs great, and I'm ASSUMING my dad will like this car. I plan to give it to him, it did cost me a couple thousand, but all things considered, it was a good deal.

Back to the treadle vac, I finally took it apart tonight, and it was HALF FULL OF WATER. It is ruined beyond repair. A good friend of mine gave me a few used treadle vac units he had kicking around, and while they are rough, one I was able to clean up and it looks like it will work, (changed the diaphragm, cleaned up and re oiled with Neetsfoot oil) except it is different. Rod length is about an inch too long, and the rods do not look interchangeable. The plunger sizes are different too. 5.25 inches versus 5.75 inches in size (roughly). Vacuum connection is on the wrong side of the booster which was my first clue these are different.

What the dilemma is, I don't want to spend a ton of money fixing this treadle vac, especially if it turns out he may not want to keep the car after all. He is almost 80 and on a fixed income. He is not able to do very much work on the car himself. I just wish I could at least give it to him in good, safe running condition as it is, it would be great to see that smile on his face behind the wheel.

If there was a relatively cheap brake booster/master cylinder I could buy, even off rockauto that I could make fit, I would try it but I don't have a clue what other models will fit this car.

Looking forward to any ideas you guys have, bit of a downer tonight with this toasted treadle vac.

[rjlester]

Something I will add, the reason I don't think I can fix the original unit that had water in it, is the vacuum bore is VERY rough now. I have not tried to wire wheel it clean, but I don't know that it's worth it. I would imagine that surface has to be totally smooth, and it's likely full of rusted pits. Surprisingly the leather seal looks excellent.

[dmsfrr]

Contacting the folks at White Post Restorations in person by phone (or email) might be the best way to answer your questions?

https://whitepost.com/brake-sleeving...ding-services/

Their usual procedure is to bore and sleeve the cylinder.

If your dad doesn't want to keep the car it will be an easier sale with the brakes working well.

.

[KULTULZ]

The cheapest and easiest way out is to swap in a period vacuum booster and MC.

For that TREADLE-VAC to perform correctly, you will have to send it out and most likely need a good core or have deep pockets.

Is it going to be a resto or driver?

EDIT - Yes, Another One ...

READ THRU THIS URL - https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...stion.1271208/

[rjlester]

Last night I realized I have a 61 Monarch parts car with power brakes. I think I might try to pull the brake booster and just see if the bolt holes line up on the 57, and hopefully it will clear the valve cover on the 312. The booster is about 9 inches in diameter, I don't have my hopes up, but worth a try.

At this point, the car will be a driver, not restored.

[rjlester]

Took the treadle vac to a local rebuilder, been in the business for decades. He figured I could easily clean up the vacuum side, he was more worried about the master cylinder, but I assured him that the master seemed to be ok and worked fine otherwise. He was not worried at all about getting the leather seal to seal again.

So I'm going to wire wheel this thing and put it back together and see what happens. If it doesn't work after all that, then I'll try another booster and master cylinder. Won't cost me anything to try this, I'll let you guys know what happens.

[KULTULZ]

... he was more worried about the master cylinder ...

If push comes to shove - http://www.cadillacpartsltd.com/1919edbetrbr.html

[rjlester]

I'm super happy to report, I have power brakes!!! That vacuum bore was a bit rough for my tastes, but I wire weeled the rust out and there are lots of pits and a real rough spot on the bottom. But man, I just can't believe how forgiving that Treadle Vac is!! Found some Neatsfoot oil at the local Peavey Mart, it seems to have done the trick.

Feel kinda stupid, didn't mean to start a thread and then just cleaning it up made it work.

Have to bleed the brakes once I get someone to help, fix an exhaust leak, clean the interior (has musty smell) and get it ready to give to my Dad.

[miker98038]

I think you did great. Got a lot of references for the next guy that has a problem or question, solved your problem, and posted the success story. Job well done. That’s what forums like this are for.

[Gene F]

I bet your Dad will be one happy guy! Good for you.