'36 Coil Puked

[VeryTangled]

Hi All, At the Auburn EFV8 we took our car on 'Tour D.' It was a warm but not really hot day. When leaving the next to last stop our car was being a little grumpy, quite out of place as it usually runs like a top. It kicked over and started and immediately quit. Did that about four times, then wouldn't start at all. We thought vapor lock, something I, as a newbie, had heard of but never experienced. I only have about six hundred miles behind the wheel of a flattie.

We put some cool rags on the fuel line, waited ten minutes, poured some gas into the carb, and got it running. (Like dummies we didn't notice the spray can of starting fluid behind the back seat until we got back home.) It ran fine the three or four miles over to the last tour stop. When we departed the last stop we coasted down a hill and it started fine, and ran great for about a half mile. Then it started to sputter, still sorta feeling like a fuel delivery issue. It felt like it was hitting on about half of the cylinders. At about five miles from the last stop it just quit and we coasted to the side of the road.

After a little head scratching I spied the coil, see photos. I was actually a little glad to see it because I figured we'd found the issue. Like good 'be prepared' boy scouts, we had parts and tools with us. About thirty minutes later, with some kind help from Ken Bounds (I hope I got that right, he has a really fine Crestliner) and his lovely companion, we had a new coil in place and she fired up right away on the first crank.

WV Cecil told us later on that he'd heard coils are sorta legendary for giving a fuel-like symptom.

The story has a happy ending (except for a the grease I got on my new pants), but I thought I throw this out for discussion so I might become more educated. Has anyone ever seen something like this before? Thanks in advance for your contributions.

One other thing, we've decided to add a stubby ratcheting 1/2 inch wrench to the tool kit because the coil has a grounding tab that is attached with one of the distributor bolts and most of the time was spent wrestling with that bolt. I'd used one of those wrenches when JM 35 Sedan and Dad and I worked on an acquaintance's '36 distributor problem, and it was a real time-saver.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

[JM 35 Sedan]

Jeff, I have never seen one of those coils melt like that before. Of course there are many things I have not seen even at this age I always thought Henry's (as in Henry Ford) coils were manufactured with a phenolic/thermosetting type plastic material housing that would not melt. Could that have been an after market coil that was possibly made with a thermoplastic type plastic housings? I would get a '35-'36 Ford script coil and send it to Skip Haney for a rewind.
Regarding that set of wrenches....my wife bought those for me and my first thought was "just another gimmick set of wrenches that probably won't get much use" BUT they turned out to be one of the handiest sets of wrenches that I have owned and I am constantly using them. There are seven wrenches to this set that range from 5/16" to 3/4" and they are Craftsman brand.

[VeryTangled]

Hi JM always good to hear from you. This one was rebuilt by Skip before it went on the car. That stuff leaking out the top was real gooey and made me a little scared as I've heard of nasty stuff used in some electrical parts. We've sent it back to him and will report what he tells us. Dad is the parts-hound in the family, I'm sure he's on the case. Thank goodness he planned ahead and we were carrying a spare.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

[Mike in AZ]

glad you had a simple? fix....always good to have spare parts...usually not needed, but good to have when needed....beautiful car....Mike

[VeryTangled]

Hi Mike, thanks for the nice compliment.

One thing to add, we are using Phillips head screws on the coil. Definitely not kosher on the judging field, but they are much easier to work with than the original slotted heads. The car is a driver not a show car anyway.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

[jerry grayson]

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Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Hi JM always good to hear from you. This one was rebuilt by Skip before it went on the car. That stuff leaking out the top was real gooey and made me a little scared as I've heard of nasty stuff used in some electrical parts. We've sent it back to him and will report what he tells us. Dad is the parts-hound in the family, I'm sure he's on the case. Thank goodness he planned ahead and we were carrying a spare.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

Did you by chance leave the switch on for a while??

[ken ct]

I didn't realize that was you Jeff,sorry for your misfourtune,glad you got it fixed. Thanks for the showers. ken + Peg ct.

[Henryat1140]

>Leave the switch on for a while

No, as Jeff said we were at a stop on the tour for about 1/2 hour - and the car ran flawlessly up till then. I was sitting in the car and am 99.999% certain the switch was off.

When we went to start the car to go to the next stop, it really acted to me like fuel starvation. It would struggle to start, then once started would run for about six or seven seconds (on all cylinders) then sputter and die. The day was low to mid 80's, and we were parked in the shade. We had lots of 'vapor lock' advice, and one thing we did was put wet towels on the fuel line and fuel pump. This from a car that usually starts on the first crank. We have had the car in hotter weather, but as I mentioned it probably was somewhere between 80 and 85 degrees.

We let it sit for about 30 minutes then primed it with a little gas and it started. Never had vapor lock before; the fuel system is generally in good shape, tank cleaned out, good fuel pump with sediment bowl, great running Stromberg 97.

It ran fine to the next stop, but after that started missing and bucking, which I (mistakenly) thought was remnants of the 'vapor lock', but after about five miles of driving, hoping it was a fuel blockage that would clear, we had a strong burning plastic smell and it was immediately apparent when we saw the top of the coil melted and burned.

I have sent the coil back to Skip Haney for his inspection and opinion As far as I know we did nothing to contribute to the failure - but of course anything is possible. We do have a correct resistor in the line. We have had several opinions regarding that a coil failure can simulate fuel starvation

So all in all it was somewhat frustrating, but also a learning experience.

Ken Bounds was a hero to stop and help us, both with encouragement and with some wrench turning.

One final thought, reinforcing what Jeff said, Phillips head screws securing the coil to the distributor make changing the coil a lot easier, and a stubby flex ratcheting wrench would be a big help on that upper right 1/2" distributor bolt. Elsewise, it's not that great a job to change on the road (Yeah easy for me to say - Jeff and Ken Bounds did all the work)

It's all part of the fun. <grin>

[Pat/Ohio]

Jeff, it was great seeing you and your dad (Henry) in Auburn! You guys are "top-shelf" in my book! Glad it all worked out. I'll be interested in what Skip has to say about the coil. I have never seen that happen....but I'm just a youngster! lol

Pat

[VeryTangled]

KenCT, I've got your back anytime we're close to each other. That parking lot in Charlotte when I first met you, was a a real hot nightmare. Your wife is a dream! Give her a big hug from us folks down Murylund way. I hope I don't have to use that fuel pump we bought but if we do I know the pump will not be the problem, it's in the back of the '36 now. Already used the Ford Logo blanket, first on the hang rail in of the Phaeton's back seat, and then the very next day, as I had to lay under the car beside the road. I hated it, but I put it down on the road shoulder as I worked on the coil.

Pat, What can I say? If you hold a show I'm there! Great to meet you in Saratoga Springs and we had about a 13 on a fun scale of 1 to 10 in Auburn! The event at the Foundation museum was over the top fun, poor souls who had their stuff rained on. The whole experience was way too much adrenaline.

Can't say enough good stuff about the Auburn meet. In fact my local newsletter editor, Norm Heathcote, has ordered a meet review article, and I will deliver it this week.

VeryTangled/Jeff

[ken ct]

Good luck on the coil. Is the blanket washable? That was the last one i had and dont think i will buy anymore,that last one was hard to sell,had for a while.ken ct.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Ken, I haven't checked out the blanked for damage yet, but I don't think it will be a problem. The 'display' side didn't get messed up, and I'm not even sure the back side is either. It sure looked like you had been carrying it around for a while so it was a win-win situation. I really like it. I'll try to send a shot of it in the car, but it really saved my clothes on the side of the road. Just washed the shorts and they came about 95% clean. As long as I stand next to dad nobody will notice the grease spot on _my_ shorts!

-VeryTangled/Jeff

[TomO]

Jeff, I have never seen a coil melt like that before, either. I'm glad that you were able to get it going again with a spare coil. I have more storage space in my Merc, so I carry a rebuilt coil and a modern coil with an adapter for the 37-41 distributor.

We enjoyed having lunch with you and your father.

Ken Bounds is always very helpful and knowledgeable. A very handy guy to have along on tours.

[Flat Tire]

I managed to melt a coil on my '34. All you have to do is connect the coil wire to the wrong side of the loading resistor on the firewall. The coil apparently didn't appreciate getting straight 6 volts. I won't make that mistake again. I suppose some sort of short across the resistor might do the same thing.

[G.M.]

VeryTangled I would say you left the ignition switch on and the points were closed. This is the only way that coil would get hot to enough to expand and cause the case to break. Even without a resistor it would not get that hot running on 6 volts, maybe with an 8 volt battery with no resistor it would get hot but I doubt that would even melt the coil with the engine running. When 6 volts is connected to the coil, POS to the ground side of the coil through the spring on the bottom through the points to ground and the NEG side through the resistor to the battery by way of the ignition switch and the points are closed the winding in the coil is shorted and becomes a resistor. This is like the resistor wires you see in a toaster and get hot enough to melt the insulation off the wires. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY the coil will melt as in your picture. If your coil failed from a bad interior connection which happened to 15 or 20 over a 15 year period Skip would rebuild it a no charge reguardless of how long you had it, under this condition it just stops working but don't melt. He will do one for you at a reduced cost if you find another top or another coil even though it was not a normal failure. Give him a call at 1-941-637-6698 Shop or 1-941-505-9085 home. Tell him I said to call. G.M.

[Hoop]

Just curious. We're sorta assuming 6V ... was it? Or, 12V?

[Vic Piano]

Jeff, sorry to hear about your car trouble but glad you were able to fix the problem. You said in your opening post that you've only got about 600 miles behind the wheel of a Flathead... You're lucky, my first flathead (when I was 16) broke down on the way home when I bought it, had only gone about 20 miles. Over the years I've had a number of Flatheads, all of which have broken down at one time or another and some multiple times. One constant with Flatheads (and I would imagine most other old cars) is, if you drive them things can and will go wrong. The way I look at it that comes with the territory. I've found that (for the most part) whatever extra parts you bring with you for insurance won't be the part(s) that gives you trouble. I'd say you passed your Flathead initiation with flying colors and I hope you continue to enjoy a lot more time behind the wheel. Vic

[37ford4dr]

i am outside of DC also in Arlington, sounds like you are in Md. i am glad you resolved your coil issue. i am thinking that i may also have a coil issue since i have ruled the fuel starvation issue out. my set up is 12 volts with a non stock tube coil. and it also runs like it is on 1/2 the cylinders and it actually sounds different also. it was funny to read your narrative since it described my symptons pretty well. bob

[ford38v8]

It's always so reassuring to read a post from GM. He has owned and driven so many many more flatheads than anyone else, and has never ever had a problem with any of them because he knows everything about them and never makes a mistake. If George wrote a book, all the other books could then be burned, as George's book would be all anyone would ever need.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by Henryat1140

...As far as I know we did nothing to contribute to the failure - but of course anything is possible... It's all part of the fun. <grin>

Hi Everyone, It's now 2021 and a touch over ten years on from this, my first thread started on FordBarn. I remember it like it was yesterday. Clear as a bell, I think?!?

My dear departed dad turned out to be wrong. Here's the rest of the story.

The hot theory was I left the switch on, but the engine off, and it cooked the coil through a set of closed points. That wasn't it. I can't say I've never done that, but I didn't do it this time! (Sorry GM, and thanks for the gentle treatment for a newbie. And hit the enter key occasionally, guy.)

It WAS user error on my part, but in a different way.

The last drive before the incident we roll started the car.

(If you are using pushers, do them a huge favor and avoid first, use third when you've got to pop the clutch guys! That lesson was painfully learned while a group of us ended up pushing a guy five times in one day on a different tour. He didn't read the memo and couldn't get the concept!)

I remember we were leaving a tour stop at a zoo that wasn't my cup of tea. The previous no-start was at a jail/museum which oddly was more interesting.

We were parked facing downhill considering the previous no-start (which today I attribute to vapor lock) and our brilliant idea was to try to roll it and see how that worked out. Haha.

The switch was on to start and the engine caught right away, lucky us, but the battery/starter were not engaged to do it. This car has a battery cut-out. I'd switched it off when parking the car. BUT I'd forgot to switch it on for starting (didn't use the starter, so didn't realize it was switched off).

Running the car five minutes over the road with the battery out of the loop and the generator supplying electric with nowhere to store it is what caused the coil to suffer it's gruesome liquidy demise due to my goof.

Skip replaced the coil on his dime without any snide remarks or eye-rolls that I could see from five states away.

I did my best to make sure to remember him, attempting to make up for my f-up when I did some later transactions with him. And he does flawless work on many assemblies other than coils and water pumps. Remember to use his services because he'll treat you right even when you're the A-hole like I was on this beautiful day back in September 2011.

One thing I'll always remember is Ken and Carolyn Bound's gorgeous Crestliner pulling up and coming to our (mostly emotional) rescue!

And wrenching on our Phaeton beside the road with my Dad was a memory I'll take with me to my last breath.

Couldn't dig up current adverts for Skip, but I found these from 2014...