lower water outlet with a boss to tap for temp gauge

[kelley's restoration]

i know that some(if not all) model b lower water outlets had a boss that was tapped for a temp gauge, but i cant find one. Is someone repoping these or am i going to have to hunt the swap meets
thanks
tk

[steve s]

Charlie Yapp sells them on his Secrets of Speed - Scalded Dog parts operation.

http://www.secretsofspeed.com/DOGPARTS.htm

Steve

[Jim Brierley]

These were only aftermarket, and don't really tell you much as the outlet temp is the important reading to take.

[Charlie Stephens]

You should be taking the temperature as the water exits the engine. Here is a site for a neat little piece that mounts both a thermostat and a temp sensor. The quality of the part is excellent. This guy only has three different parts he sells, wish he had more. vintageprecision.com (800 486-0021).

Charlie Stephens

[kelley's restoration]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

These were only aftermarket, and don't really tell you much as the outlet temp is the important reading to take.

ok, does anyone make an aftermarket upper goose neck with a port on it aside from the one suggested above. I have a cast aluminum one for my riley but that wont fit the stock head i am running now
thanks
tk

[steve s]

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Here's a picture of the part Charlie refers to. It is indeed well made but looks a little goofy installed--sort of overhangs the head. May not be everyone's cup of tea. However, as you can see in the picture, I have lots of other issues.

Steve

[Dick So. Cal.]

Hi Steve
Does the thermostat need to be notched on either side to allow some water to by-pass when the t-stat is closed? I bought the housing in Placerville and I think a small notch is in order. What do you think?
Dick

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Dick So. Cal.

Hi Steve
Does the thermostat need to be notched on either side to allow some water to by-pass when the t-stat is closed? I bought the housing in Placerville and I think a small notch is in order. What do you think?
Dick

Dick,

Maybe you can tell by the 2nd photo that the housing has two dished out bypasses to let some flow around the thermostat. Seller confirmed to me that no additional holes are needed on provided stat. I was dubious, but those Californians are much more aggressive speedsters than I am. So far, seems to work ok although temp is 10 degrees or so above what I would expect. Another guy has recently posted swell graphs of coolant T with and without thermostat, showing that even when wired open the stat raises the coolant T with stat mounted in hose, as I understand it. Don't know if there would be a problem under conditions more demanding than a Michigan summer, and don't know if one or two 1/8" hole in flange--like a I always used in the past--would help.

It really is sort of goofy looking, so I would only recommend it for engineer-types who find beauty in function.

Steve

[Dick So. Cal.]

How did you know I was an engineer-type. We recognize beauty in function, like you said.
The two notches in the housing are mostly covered up by the t-stat, that is why I asked.
The thing I also liked about the set-up was the fact you didn't loosen the head bolts to access the t-stat. And at the rear of the housing are two access ports for both mechanical and/or electrical temp sensors. I thought the whole concept was really nicely thought out even if it is a bit odd looking.
Dick

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by kelley's restoration

ok, does anyone make an aftermarket upper goose neck with a port on it aside from the one suggested above. I have a cast aluminum one for my riley but that wont fit the stock head i am running now
thanks
tk

Yes. I got mine from Bert's in Denver, but I imagine all the vendors carry them. It's a stock-type cast iron outlet with a drilled & tapped boss, 1/2" pipe thread.

There's one for 28-29 and one for 30-31.

Joe

[Special Coupe Frank]

Snyder's and Bratton's both sell a cast-iron outlet with a 1/2" NPT tapping.

I bought one to replace a cracked original when I replaced a head-gasket back in April.

After reading about the issues with outlet ears breaking-off, I took a few minutes and "surfaced" mine, using a large flat-file, then sandpaper backed-up against some plate glass.

It did take about minutes worth of effort (by hand ) to get a flat surface, but the outlet went-on and torqued-down w/o any match-sticks or other shims and no breakage.
(copper outlet gasket)

[marc hildebrant]

Special Coup Frank,

Could you explain the method of sanding with plate glass as a back up ?

Would any flat surface work ?

Marc

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Dick So. Cal.

How did you know I was an engineer-type. We recognize beauty in function, like you said.
The two notches in the housing are mostly covered up by the t-stat, that is why I asked.
The thing I also liked about the set-up was the fact you didn't loosen the head bolts to access the t-stat. And at the rear of the housing are two access ports for both mechanical and/or electrical temp sensors. I thought the whole concept was really nicely thought out even if it is a bit odd looking.
Dick

Dick,
HEre's some more photos that may help. Indeed the notches are not as large as I would have made them but they seem to do the job. I've seen new stats with one very tiny hole in the flange, I believe intended to be just large enough to let a bubble get by; these are much larger but probably not equivalent to two 1/8" holes. The dished out section in the other half of the unit, sweeps the coolant toward the smaller but deeper notch seen at the edge of the stat flange.

You're right about it being well thought out. Good idea to be able to change stat w/o loosening head bolts. As an engineer, you will be pleased, I'm sure.

For extra credit, including photo of my earlier technology, which also worked fine.

Steve

[ozkiwi]

I've installed my temperature gauge and a thermostat by inserting a tapped brass tee into the upper radiator hose. This way I can easily remove it if I want the A to look original.

[Thom IV]

FWIW

I drilled and tapped my gooseneck, ran the conduit back to the cowl, then up the steering column and mounted the gauge on the column, just below the steering wheel. i just have to glance down at the steering wheel and temperature reading is right there. I bought the gauge at the local parts store for one half the cost of the Model A parts houses. Has been working great since installation.

[kelley's restoration]

i will probably make an inline tube with a bung welded in and put it in between the goose neck and the radiator with 2 hoses. i found some tube and a female adapter in the garage tonight. i'll weld it up tomorrow and it didn't cost me anything.... except time. thanks guys.tk

[steve s]

Originally Posted by kelley's restoration

i will probably make an inline tube with a bung welded in and put it in between the goose neck and the radiator with 2 hoses. i found some tube and a female adapter in the garage tonight. i'll weld it up tomorrow and it didn't cost me anything.... except time. thanks guys.tk

Snyders sells such a thing as part of a heater kit:

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/up...74-7941-xl.jpg

A problem to watch out for is that inserting a metal tube into the upper radiator connection eliminates a lot of flex, and can be the dickens to install or remove. I tried and abandoned the Snyders deal, after sawing it off to shorten it as much as I thought prudent. Maybe you can do better.

Steve

[Tom Endy]

Dan Eubanks 626-827-4004 (Southern California) makes Model A cast water out let housings, both 28-29 & 30-31 with a temp guage boss on the drivers side to accommodate an overhead valve installation. He will drill and tap them for whatever size fitting you want.

If you want to see a photo of one go to www.ocmafc.org. Click on tech articles in the left menu. It will pull up another menue of tech articles, click on Tom Endy's articles and scroll down to "Temp Guage Installation"

Some aircraft systems monitor both input and output to a cooling system. By pressing a button the flight deck can read the temperature drop across the cooler, which is termed "rise" temperature. I don't see a need for this on a Model A unless someone wants to monitor the efficiency of their radiator.

Tom Endy

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

Special Coup Frank,

Could you explain the method of sanding with plate glass as a back up ?

Would any flat surface work ?

Marc

Unless the glass is real old and looks wavy you can be sure that it is as flat as flat can be. If you're sure other surfaces are as flat, sure they will work.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Usually plate or "float glass" is made to pretty high tolerances, with both surfaces flat and parallel to each other.

I just lay a sheet of silicon-carbide paper (usually 180 or finer) on the glass, hold it down with one hand, and move the part across it with the other hand.

When I've been desperate for a flat surface, I've even used the flat side glass of the vehicle as a "surface plate"...

Any true, even, flat surface will work; generally you want something thick enough so that it will not flex under the pressure of your work...

I've salvaged the thick plate glass from coffee-tables for use as surface plates...

Probably no substitute for a Starrett granite surface plate, but good enough for carb flanges and water necks.

[Model A Man]

I was going to post pictures for you of where I drilled and tapped the upper outlet and where I mounted the guage but I can't remember how to post pictures. Sorry

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Model A Man

I was going to post pictures for you of where I drilled and tapped the upper outlet and where I mounted the guage but I can't remember how to post pictures. Sorry

It's pretty easy--no need to mess with Photobucket or such. You need to get to the Reply to Thread screen where you compose your message. THen click on the the paper clip/attachments thingy up above the message box. THen follow your nose to upload a picture right from your computer; handles most any kind of file as long as they're not too big.

If you started out on the Quick Reply screen, you won't see the paperclip. Click on Go Advanced and it will appear.

Steve

[Model A Man]

thanks for the picture posting info. lets see if this works

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Model A Man

thanks for the picture posting info. lets see if this works

Well, that sort of worked; I'm not sure how you did it. The images are supposed to enlarge when clicked on and then enlarge even more with a second click. Yours don't. I notice yours are called "attached images" whereas mine are called "attached thumbnails", which must have something to do with it. Dunno.

Steve