The Ford Barn

tubadon40 · 07-17-2018, 09:05 PM

Helping my friend restore his 1941 half ton. We are done except we want to keep what appears to be a well made overload get up for the rear. He was told it was a "Moonshine" kit.
I should have taken pictures and still can but I will try to explain verbally.
It looks like the original rear leaves are left in place and another large leaf spring mounted right below it on very long U bolts. That spring will under heavy load, bottom out on "pads" (missing) that are mounted to the axle housings on each side with Large U bolts. These arms holding the pads are a well cast pair leading me to believe it was a designed set to be sold for the purpose and not a back yard cobbled mess.
My question is about the missing pads. If anyone knows of pictures like what I tried to describe, we are surely interested especially what they were made of.
Like rubber faced steel, hard rubber only? Shape etc. The casting at the point where the spring ends would touch is a square hole where something would fit into. the pads would have to be fastened so as not to bounce out.

Comments please if you can share any information on this type overload system and or the company that made it. Thanks

Don

expavr · 07-17-2018, 11:24 PM

Attached are photos of the factory overload system on my 1940 tonner. The overloads come into contact with the cast brackets that are mounted to the frame. There was no hard rubber on either the spring or the bracket, when I restored the truck. I'll check the Green Book tomorrow to see if there might have been rubber at either location.

RalphM · 07-18-2018, 01:36 AM

I had a 1945 1/2 ton which had the exact same set up as what Expavr is showing.

41ford1 · 07-18-2018, 08:14 AM

Pictures will help here. '41 1/2 tons basically commercial cars on the car chassis. The rear spring is transverse like the cars.

rotorwrench · 07-18-2018, 09:11 AM

The early 1941 pickups used the same frame as the 1940 cars & pickups. The 6-cylinder modification came in mid year but I think it was mostly a frontal change to the cross member so that the 6 or V8 could be used in the same frame. I've heard that they set up a bit taller but I don't think they changed the design. It may have been a spring change but I don't know for sure. In any case they still just had the one transverse rear spring. 1942 was the first year for open drive and dual rear springs.

The helper spring set ups generally don't use a rubber pad. It would have been steel spring to cast iron pad. The pad should have a curve to it to allow for the spring to slide against it when loaded. Most of the larger trucks had longer wheel base and a Timken type rear axle. I would expect helpers on them but not so much on a half ton commercial with a passenger car type frame.

Unless your friend if going into the freight business, I'd recommend going back to a stock suspension. The helper is likely an aftermarket add on so it won't get points at a show.

51504bat · 07-18-2018, 10:17 AM

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When I got my '39 p/u it had a helper spring set up. I took it off because it interfered with the tube shocks I installed. I still have it down in the shop. I'll dig it out and post some photos.

51504bat · 07-18-2018, 10:37 AM

Here are photos of what I took off my '39 p/u. Don't remember exactly how it all bolted together. The 2 metal brackets do have what looks like a rubber pad where I'm guessing the over load spring made contact. Kind of hard to see in the photos. Don't know if its of any use to any one but its just in the way. PM me if interested.

Tinker · 07-18-2018, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51504bat

When I got my '39 p/u it had a helper spring set up. I took it off because it interfered with the tube shocks I installed. I still have it down in the shop. I'll dig it out and post some photos.

Had/have the same brackets and a second spring pack on top of the normal springs (14 total if I remember correctly). Oh course, for the smaller 1/2 ton transverse spring trucks.

There is a thread on 38/39 trucks with pictures. Not sure where its at. Don't think anyone makes pads as it is not something that most would restore (numbers too low to produce).

Brackets are ubolted to the rear axle and hook under the rear wishbone freely. Brackets look to be a system setup to catch the spring if the shackles break or a spring eye let loose. Get you home maybe, for sure won't let the spring hit the dirt at 30mph.

rotorwrench · 07-18-2018, 04:56 PM

Those little outriggers look like they were set up to work with the radius rods to help hold the spring pads in place to keep pressure on the pad from trying to rotate the pad fitting. The rubber pad in the one close up looks like part of an old tire carcass.

Folks were always trying to get more out of the equipment than what it was designed for. I have no idea where that kit may have come from but J.C. Whitney has been around for over a 100-years now. Outfits like them have been selling aftermarket stuff since cars became common.

38bill · 07-18-2018, 09:26 PM

My 1/2T truck (commercial car) was a airport maintenance vehicle. To up the capacity they just added more and more leafs to the spring. They looked like something that would have been under a big truck by the time they were done.

tubadon40 · 07-18-2018, 09:27 PM

YUP 51514bat thats the same setup my friend has. He is not interested in competive showing and it will never haul stuff to invoke its use. But that's it.
Is there a mfg's name or anything on yours to ID it's maker?
I have a 40 half ton tore down for restore but am not looking for more parts to restore.
Thanks very much for those pictures and if I was closer I would be talking to you about buying just for the novelty.
Don

51504bat · 07-18-2018, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubadon40

YUP 51514bat thats the same setup my friend has. He is not interested in competive showing and it will never haul stuff to invoke its use. But that's it.
Is there a mfg's name or anything on yours to ID it's maker?
I have a 40 half ton tore down for restore but am not looking for more parts to restore.
Thanks very much for those pictures and if I was closer I would be talking to you about buying just for the novelty.
Don

I'll check for a manufacturer name or some other type of ID tomorrow.
Tim

51504bat · 07-19-2018, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubadon40

YUP 51514bat thats the same setup my friend has. He is not interested in competive showing and it will never haul stuff to invoke its use. But that's it.
Is there a mfg's name or anything on yours to ID it's maker?
I have a 40 half ton tore down for restore but am not looking for more parts to restore.
Thanks very much for those pictures and if I was closer I would be talking to you about buying just for the novelty.
Don

No manufacturers name just a number F-37-L on what I assume is the left bracket and F-37-R which should be the right bracket. There is also a mark that could be a company logo but its hard to say.

jnkyarddog_1 · 02-23-2020, 10:09 AM

I know older thread.. But I just got 38 ford 1/2 p/u that had this set up in it.. Any help would be appreciated.. Yes the spring goes to the front and another pad attached to the frame..
Yes NEW here and saying HELLO ! Member at that other forum The HAMB.

tubman · 02-23-2020, 11:14 AM

What do you need help with? It is what it is, and looks like it would perform the function it was designed for. Unless you are planning on consistently carrying heavy loads, you would probably be better off just removing it. It does look "well made"

And "Hello" back to you and welcome to the Forum. I would suggest that you should not be shy about things like this, and when in doubt, don't be afraid to start a new thread. Most of the folks here like to see different stuff like this, and "tacking it on" to an old, existing thread may cause some to miss it. This is not criticism, but a suggestion to get the most out of the board.

jnkyarddog_1 · 02-23-2020, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

What do you need help with? It is what it i,s and looks like it would perform the function it was designed for. Unless you are planning on consistently carrying heavy loads, you would probably be better off just removing it. It does look "well made".

What;s going on? This is the third rear suspension "helper" post I've made in the last 10 minutes.

I was looking for more INFO like dealer installed who made and such?

Yes you are correct It looks like it would perform the function it was intended for !

And this is ONLY the 2nd post I have made.. One here and one 2 days prior on the HAMB. I was sent over here from there to find more info.. SHEESH

tubman · 02-23-2020, 11:31 AM

Please go back and look at my corrected post. After I posted it, I realized that my two points were unrelated, so I started a new thread on the "three posts" subject, and added a suggestion on how to get the most out of this board to my original. We're only trying to help.

jnkyarddog_1 · 02-23-2020, 11:42 AM

@tubman
I think you can tell I am not shy at voicing my opinion, Thnx for the heads up on a new thread. I didn't intend to hijack this one, Its just that seeing same thing posted over and over on a new thread gets Sto0pid. Like DEATH WOBBLE on a straight axle thing one could just search and find the answer needed...

07-17-2018, 09:05 PM	#1
tubadon40 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Indianola,Iowa Posts: 17	41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help Helping my friend restore his 1941 half ton. We are done except we want to keep what appears to be a well made overload get up for the rear. He was told it was a "Moonshine" kit. I should have taken pictures and still can but I will try to explain verbally. It looks like the original rear leaves are left in place and another large leaf spring mounted right below it on very long U bolts. That spring will under heavy load, bottom out on "pads" (missing) that are mounted to the axle housings on each side with Large U bolts. These arms holding the pads are a well cast pair leading me to believe it was a designed set to be sold for the purpose and not a back yard cobbled mess. My question is about the missing pads. If anyone knows of pictures like what I tried to describe, we are surely interested especially what they were made of. Like rubber faced steel, hard rubber only? Shape etc. The casting at the point where the spring ends would touch is a square hole where something would fit into. the pads would have to be fastened so as not to bounce out. Comments please if you can share any information on this type overload system and or the company that made it. Thanks Don

07-18-2018, 01:36 AM	#3
RalphM Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: North Pole, Alaska Posts: 2,651	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help I had a 1945 1/2 ton which had the exact same set up as what Expavr is showing.

07-18-2018, 08:14 AM	#4
41ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ManchVegas, New Hampshah Posts: 1,589	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help Pictures will help here. '41 1/2 tons basically commercial cars on the car chassis. The rear spring is transverse like the cars. __________________ You are never to old to enjoy your childhood. Forty1fordpickup on the HAMB.

07-18-2018, 09:11 AM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help The early 1941 pickups used the same frame as the 1940 cars & pickups. The 6-cylinder modification came in mid year but I think it was mostly a frontal change to the cross member so that the 6 or V8 could be used in the same frame. I've heard that they set up a bit taller but I don't think they changed the design. It may have been a spring change but I don't know for sure. In any case they still just had the one transverse rear spring. 1942 was the first year for open drive and dual rear springs. The helper spring set ups generally don't use a rubber pad. It would have been steel spring to cast iron pad. The pad should have a curve to it to allow for the spring to slide against it when loaded. Most of the larger trucks had longer wheel base and a Timken type rear axle. I would expect helpers on them but not so much on a half ton commercial with a passenger car type frame. Unless your friend if going into the freight business, I'd recommend going back to a stock suspension. The helper is likely an aftermarket add on so it won't get points at a show. Last edited by rotorwrench; 07-18-2018 at 09:23 AM.

07-18-2018, 10:17 AM	#6
51504bat Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: SoCal-Redlands Posts: 3,009	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When I got my '39 p/u it had a helper spring set up. I took it off because it interfered with the tube shocks I installed. I still have it down in the shop. I'll dig it out and post some photos. __________________ Making the simple complicated for over 30 years.

07-18-2018, 04:56 PM	#9
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help Those little outriggers look like they were set up to work with the radius rods to help hold the spring pads in place to keep pressure on the pad from trying to rotate the pad fitting. The rubber pad in the one close up looks like part of an old tire carcass. Folks were always trying to get more out of the equipment than what it was designed for. I have no idea where that kit may have come from but J.C. Whitney has been around for over a 100-years now. Outfits like them have been selling aftermarket stuff since cars became common.

07-18-2018, 09:26 PM	#10
38bill Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,165	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help My 1/2T truck (commercial car) was a airport maintenance vehicle. To up the capacity they just added more and more leafs to the spring. They looked like something that would have been under a big truck by the time they were done.

07-18-2018, 09:27 PM	#11
tubadon40 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Indianola,Iowa Posts: 17	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help YUP 51514bat thats the same setup my friend has. He is not interested in competive showing and it will never haul stuff to invoke its use. But that's it. Is there a mfg's name or anything on yours to ID it's maker? I have a 40 half ton tore down for restore but am not looking for more parts to restore. Thanks very much for those pictures and if I was closer I would be talking to you about buying just for the novelty. Don

02-23-2020, 11:14 AM	#15
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help What do you need help with? It is what it is, and looks like it would perform the function it was designed for. Unless you are planning on consistently carrying heavy loads, you would probably be better off just removing it. It does look "well made" And "Hello" back to you and welcome to the Forum. I would suggest that you should not be shy about things like this, and when in doubt, don't be afraid to start a new thread. Most of the folks here like to see different stuff like this, and "tacking it on" to an old, existing thread may cause some to miss it. This is not criticism, but a suggestion to get the most out of the board. Last edited by tubman; 02-23-2020 at 11:21 AM.

02-23-2020, 11:31 AM	#17
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help Please go back and look at my corrected post. After I posted it, I realized that my two points were unrelated, so I started a new thread on the "three posts" subject, and added a suggestion on how to get the most out of this board to my original. We're only trying to help.

02-23-2020, 11:42 AM	#18
jnkyarddog_1 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Sticker patch AZ Posts: 5	Re: 41 Pickup with unusual overload kit Help @tubman I think you can tell I am not shy at voicing my opinion, Thnx for the heads up on a new thread. I didn't intend to hijack this one, Its just that seeing same thing posted over and over on a new thread gets Sto0pid. Like DEATH WOBBLE on a straight axle thing one could just search and find the answer needed...