The Ford Barn

Chris Haynes · 01-29-2018, 08:02 PM

I have a "C" Head. An obvious crack between the water passage in the center of it. Is it worth fixing?

jim1932 · 01-29-2018, 09:09 PM

I would say it's not, but only because you can pick them up for under $100

Synchro909 · 01-29-2018, 09:12 PM

In my opinion and bearing in mind the scene is different over there from what we have here, it probably isn't worth fixing. Is it going on a B engine or are you intending it goes on an A engine? If on an A, you can buy a better head new. If on a B engine, you could probably still put one of those new heads on it. Others may have a different view.

Kurt in NJ · 01-29-2018, 09:19 PM

The head on my car has a crack in the center, goes to stud hole, ---I looked at it 30 years ago, put it back, some cracks dom't mean much, post a picture

Purdy Swoft · 01-29-2018, 10:30 PM

I agree, I've used heads like Kurt mentions . If the crack is from a water passage to a head stud , A little silicone sealer around the head stud may be all that is needed to prevent small leaks around the head nut. If its just a crack between water passages it probably doesn't need antthing .We use to call the C head the poor mans high compression head for the model A . If everything is good the C head will give the model A engine nearly 7 horsepower increase. The C head is said to be 4.6 compression ratio . The horsepower gain mostly comes from the more efficiend heart shaped combustion chamber , not the small increase in compression .

Bob Bidonde · 01-30-2018, 10:32 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I use heads with the infamous crack from stud to coolant holes. I will not spread past the holes.

Purdy Swoft · 01-30-2018, 11:28 AM

I agree, most don't know this and its hard to sell one that has the infamous crack .

Chris Haynes · 01-30-2018, 11:32 AM

Thanks for the information guys. This head came with the "B" block I just bought. The block in in the shop now getting cleaned, magnafluxed, and pressure tested. Hopefully it will be usable.

Railcarmover · 01-30-2018, 02:42 PM

Should pressurize an A block...and drop the B or C crank into it.B block is a moneypit.

Terry, NJ · 01-30-2018, 08:21 PM

You'll need a 3 bolt water pump with with it. I understand that Bert's gets $170 for a rebuilt. I got one last year at Hershey. They're not as desirable as they once may have been, and the situation with the water pump makes them even less so.
Terry

Fred A · 01-30-2018, 09:22 PM

After market hi-compression have become much cheaper. The Ford Model B was a rather low compression head, something like 4.8. If your block has been decked, the piston clearance quickly becomes another problem if you try to shave it. I've gotten rid of several Model B heads and always felt sorry for the misled buyers who virtually insisted they were doing a great thing. Fifty years ago the situation was a bit different. Good only for restoration. Good Luck: Fred A

jw hash · 01-30-2018, 11:34 PM

you have to ask yourself is a $3000 motor worth a $300 head, been there done that. I would NOT use a cracked head.

Purdy Swoft · 01-31-2018, 01:25 PM

I wouldn't install a used C head on a three thousand doillar engine. On the other hand , I figure that there are still people that have unrestored model A's that don't care about national judging standards or the highest compression head. For a back road fun car a used C head is a big inprovement over a stock used model A head . The C head has nearly half a point increase in compression over the model A head. Even such a small increase in compression will help some on the hills. The heart shaped combustion chamber is what gives the horsepower increase with the C head . The three bolt water pump is a big improvement . The three bolt pump can be easily removed and replaced without loosening and tilting the radiator . The radiator hose connects to the pump . This takes the easily broken model A water outlet completely out of the picture . The model B pump doesn't over pump as badly as the model A pump and it cools better . The only difference in the model A and B pump parts is the impeller and the length of the pump shaft . The A pump shaft can easily be shortened . The model B impeller fits the model A shaft with no problem . I have bought model B pump cores for anywhere from 35 to 50 dollars. I rebuild my own water pumps . It doesn't cost anymore to rebuild a B pump than it does to rebuild an A pump unless a person has to buy a new model B impeller . Back in the day I bought used C heads for as low as 10 dollars. Nowdays , I probably wouldn't pay over 50 for a used C head if I needed one . I'm still using BF 5.9 heads on my better model A's . It mostly depends on the car and what it will be used for . Being as judge standards are not that important to me , If a 6 to 1 C head was available and I needed one , I would buy the new 6 to 1 C head before I would buy the 6 to 1 model A head .Just my thoughts .

Terry, NJ · 01-31-2018, 10:45 PM

I have a "C" head which I got filthy cheap last year at Hershey. Being ignorant of this crack problem, maybe it wasn't so cheap after all! Today, I went out and checked it for cracks near or at the center hole. Pretty sure there wasn't any. Where else should I check? I have that crack finder (Magna flux in a can) Which side is the crack on? Topside or underside? Thanks in advance!
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I agree, most don't know this and its hard to sell one that has the infamous crack .

Railcarmover · 01-31-2018, 11:03 PM

This one came off an engine (A) that the previous owner raved about how good it ran..its actually the safest spot to have a crack,and I bet there are a ton of heads out there cracked like this,you don't notice anything till you pull the head..

Railcarmover · 01-31-2018, 11:24 PM

Other than possibly the crankshaft and cam buying a B block is an expensive proposition.Acquisition cost can be high,any cracking (and stitching),not to mention the poor casting thickness in the valve area just about renders it useless for a flathead application..so then its an OHV, and sinking the dough in sleeves and block preparation (filling valve chambers,ect) just so you can drop another 5 k for a head is a strong investment..not to mention the other bolt ons needed to run the head..

Pressurize a late A block,dont deal with the sleeving and cracking issue cause its non existent, counterbalance crank,inserts,cam and your choice...OHV or H/C flathead and all the other goodies and have it in the car, on the road,fully reliable, crack chance free for less than building a B....way less if you run an H/C flathead..speed does cost money..but lets not be stupid with the money

Terry, NJ · 02-01-2018, 07:52 AM

Thanks! Now I know what to look for. And, no there's nothing like that with the head. It's solid, I lucked out!
Terry

Purdy Swoft · 02-01-2018, 12:12 PM

The C heads are thinner . If a head had small cracks that run from water jacket hole to water jacket hole , I never had a problem . If I needed or wanted to use the head I did with good service .This type of cracks are fairly common with used heads , A,B, or C . If the crack ran to a stud hole , I used silicone around the stud . Years ago, this is what I was told by guys that knew way more than me . Usually it does NO good to tell a person this if you are tring to sell them a head with this type cracks . If a person wants a real high compression head its best to go ahead and buy a new head . Even the 5.5 head has nearly double the compression of the venerable C head .

01-29-2018, 08:02 PM	#1
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,832	"C" Head I have a "C" Head. An obvious crack between the water passage in the center of it. Is it worth fixing? __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

01-29-2018, 09:09 PM	#2
jim1932 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Hancock, MA Posts: 2,781	Re: "C" Head I would say it's not, but only because you can pick them up for under $100 __________________ Short URL: http://smu.gs/14g7eDW

01-29-2018, 09:12 PM	#3
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: "C" Head In my opinion and bearing in mind the scene is different over there from what we have here, it probably isn't worth fixing. Is it going on a B engine or are you intending it goes on an A engine? If on an A, you can buy a better head new. If on a B engine, you could probably still put one of those new heads on it. Others may have a different view. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

01-29-2018, 09:19 PM	#4
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,157	Re: "C" Head The head on my car has a crack in the center, goes to stud hole, ---I looked at it 30 years ago, put it back, some cracks dom't mean much, post a picture

01-29-2018, 10:30 PM	#5
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: "C" Head I agree, I've used heads like Kurt mentions . If the crack is from a water passage to a head stud , A little silicone sealer around the head stud may be all that is needed to prevent small leaks around the head nut. If its just a crack between water passages it probably doesn't need antthing .We use to call the C head the poor mans high compression head for the model A . If everything is good the C head will give the model A engine nearly 7 horsepower increase. The C head is said to be 4.6 compression ratio . The horsepower gain mostly comes from the more efficiend heart shaped combustion chamber , not the small increase in compression . Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 01-29-2018 at 10:39 PM. Reason: added info

01-30-2018, 10:32 AM	#6
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,463	Re: "C" Head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I use heads with the infamous crack from stud to coolant holes. I will not spread past the holes. __________________ Bob Bidonde

01-30-2018, 11:28 AM	#7
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: "C" Head I agree, most don't know this and its hard to sell one that has the infamous crack .

01-30-2018, 11:32 AM	#8
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,832	Re: "C" Head Thanks for the information guys. This head came with the "B" block I just bought. The block in in the shop now getting cleaned, magnafluxed, and pressure tested. Hopefully it will be usable. __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

01-30-2018, 02:42 PM	#9
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: "C" Head Should pressurize an A block...and drop the B or C crank into it.B block is a moneypit.

01-30-2018, 08:21 PM	#10
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: "C" Head You'll need a 3 bolt water pump with with it. I understand that Bert's gets $170 for a rebuilt. I got one last year at Hershey. They're not as desirable as they once may have been, and the situation with the water pump makes them even less so. Terry

01-30-2018, 09:22 PM	#11
Fred A Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Encino California, near Burbank Posts: 935	Re: "C" Head After market hi-compression have become much cheaper. The Ford Model B was a rather low compression head, something like 4.8. If your block has been decked, the piston clearance quickly becomes another problem if you try to shave it. I've gotten rid of several Model B heads and always felt sorry for the misled buyers who virtually insisted they were doing a great thing. Fifty years ago the situation was a bit different. Good only for restoration. Good Luck: Fred A

01-30-2018, 11:34 PM	#12
jw hash Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn Washington Posts: 2,552	Re: "C" Head you have to ask yourself is a $3000 motor worth a $300 head, been there done that. I would NOT use a cracked head.

01-31-2018, 01:25 PM	#13
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: "C" Head I wouldn't install a used C head on a three thousand doillar engine. On the other hand , I figure that there are still people that have unrestored model A's that don't care about national judging standards or the highest compression head. For a back road fun car a used C head is a big inprovement over a stock used model A head . The C head has nearly half a point increase in compression over the model A head. Even such a small increase in compression will help some on the hills. The heart shaped combustion chamber is what gives the horsepower increase with the C head . The three bolt water pump is a big improvement . The three bolt pump can be easily removed and replaced without loosening and tilting the radiator . The radiator hose connects to the pump . This takes the easily broken model A water outlet completely out of the picture . The model B pump doesn't over pump as badly as the model A pump and it cools better . The only difference in the model A and B pump parts is the impeller and the length of the pump shaft . The A pump shaft can easily be shortened . The model B impeller fits the model A shaft with no problem . I have bought model B pump cores for anywhere from 35 to 50 dollars. I rebuild my own water pumps . It doesn't cost anymore to rebuild a B pump than it does to rebuild an A pump unless a person has to buy a new model B impeller . Back in the day I bought used C heads for as low as 10 dollars. Nowdays , I probably wouldn't pay over 50 for a used C head if I needed one . I'm still using BF 5.9 heads on my better model A's . It mostly depends on the car and what it will be used for . Being as judge standards are not that important to me , If a 6 to 1 C head was available and I needed one , I would buy the new 6 to 1 C head before I would buy the 6 to 1 model A head .Just my thoughts . Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 01-31-2018 at 02:14 PM. Reason: added a word .Changed the letter B to A

01-31-2018, 11:03 PM	#15
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: "C" Head This one came off an engine (A) that the previous owner raved about how good it ran..its actually the safest spot to have a crack,and I bet there are a ton of heads out there cracked like this,you don't notice anything till you pull the head..

01-31-2018, 11:24 PM	#16
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: "C" Head Other than possibly the crankshaft and cam buying a B block is an expensive proposition.Acquisition cost can be high,any cracking (and stitching),not to mention the poor casting thickness in the valve area just about renders it useless for a flathead application..so then its an OHV, and sinking the dough in sleeves and block preparation (filling valve chambers,ect) just so you can drop another 5 k for a head is a strong investment..not to mention the other bolt ons needed to run the head.. Pressurize a late A block,dont deal with the sleeving and cracking issue cause its non existent, counterbalance crank,inserts,cam and your choice...OHV or H/C flathead and all the other goodies and have it in the car, on the road,fully reliable, crack chance free for less than building a B....way less if you run an H/C flathead..speed does cost money..but lets not be stupid with the money

02-01-2018, 07:52 AM	#17
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: "C" Head Thanks! Now I know what to look for. And, no there's nothing like that with the head. It's solid, I lucked out! Terry

02-01-2018, 12:12 PM	#18
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: "C" Head The C heads are thinner . If a head had small cracks that run from water jacket hole to water jacket hole , I never had a problem . If I needed or wanted to use the head I did with good service .This type of cracks are fairly common with used heads , A,B, or C . If the crack ran to a stud hole , I used silicone around the stud . Years ago, this is what I was told by guys that knew way more than me . Usually it does NO good to tell a person this if you are tring to sell them a head with this type cracks . If a person wants a real high compression head its best to go ahead and buy a new head . Even the 5.5 head has nearly double the compression of the venerable C head .