Mig wire type

[Don]

Out of mig wire and looking for something that works good and easy to grind,label is gone from roll,but it wasn’t what I would call easy to work,there’s a lot of diff opinion on the internet,need somebody that knows something!!

[swedishsteel]

I've used ESAB Easy Grind. From what I can find/read it's "softest" mig, making it somewhat easier to grind when doing body work. I haven't had much luck moving it much with a hammer and dolly, but I'm far from being a good metal worker. It's kind of hard to find and expensive. Bought two 11 lb. rolls a couple months ago and was about $100 a roll.

[Don]

That seems a whole lot out of line for something as simple as welding wire!!

[deuce_roadster]

Don if you look at the labels on the wire the hardness of the wire is noted by Sn where n= some number. If you just ask for MIG wire what you normally will get is S6 which is hard and often cracks if you tack something or if you weld it and try to hammer and dolly the work.. Years ago I used to get S0 for body work and it bends without breaking. The Easy Grind you get now is like S1 or 2. I do a fair amount of metal work and much prefer this softer wire for body panels. If you TIG weld, the fit up of the pieces is crucial (as you already know) to not using much filler rod. Always ask the welding store professionals about what you should use and explain your experience level. In my opinion for what I do, if using the MIG, the Easy Grind is worth the extra money. You can easily swap it out for stronger wire if you are doing something structural. Dual shield wire is very expensive but is twice as strong if you are going for strength. Good luck with your choices.

[quickchange34]

Any mig wire you buy you won't be able to metal finish the weld. Either tig or gas welding will work .

[PeteVS]

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Is the "easy grind" wire available as a flux core wire or only for use with shielding gas?

[rockfla]

I use .023 Eazy Grind for my sheet metal work

[Don]

I am using gas mix for shielding!aregon a d co2::

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Don

I am using gas mix for shielding!aregon a d co2::

I use a "Tri" mix, it seems to "help" with splatter

[RKS.PA]

Originally Posted by Don

Out of mig wire and looking for something that works good and easy to grind,label is gone from roll,but it wasn’t what I would call easy to work,there’s a lot of diff opinion on the internet,need somebody that knows something!!

Don, most of the time, what are you trying to fix/build with your mig welder??

[Seth Swoboda]

75/25 gas is a must. The small MIG welders that don't require shielding gas, aren't worth buying.

[Krylon32]

When we were boxing deuce rails for about 10 years in my chassis fab shop we used a wire between S1 and S6 both for strength and ease of grinding. I can't find the exact number anymore. We used 75/25 gas. The man that worked for me for 10 years boxing rails got to be a dam good mig welder. When he first started he left a lot of material to grind but after a few years he was leaving minimal excess. We never had any complaints about rails separating so he must have burned them together good. Still seemed like we went thru a lot of 24 grit discs over the years

[flatheadmurre]

There is brazing wire available for the mig to nowdays...used mainly for not affecting galvanized steel in modern car bodywork.
I tried it on a project more looking like a sieve then a floor after blasting...and since it doesn´t melt the base material i talked myself into that it worked better...or was it the feelgood of something new...

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

There is brazing wire available for the mig to nowdays...used mainly for not affecting galvanized steel in modern car bodywork.
I tried it on a project more looking like a sieve then a floor after blasting...and since it doesn´t melt the base material i talked myself into that it worked better...or was it the feelgood of something new...

Have you tried on something like a body patch panel (external skin) or butt joint situation? Interesting and something I've never heard of.

[flatheadmurre]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Have you tried on something like a body patch panel (external skin) or butt joint situation? Interesting and something I've never heard of.

Seems to work as good as the normal migwire...less splatter...but it needs clean surfaces.
If you think it will tigweld fine it works migbrazing.
I had to reduce the power a fair bit compared to mig welding.
Less heat so warpage/tension seemed to be less.
Haven´t used it much yet.

[rotorwrench]

One of the major problems with the wire feed welders is the feed system. The wire has to be hard enough to feed or it will break. The "S" or alloy number is only part of the description. The ER70 gives the tensile strength at 70k if you know the system. 70k is pretty hard stuff.

I don't use a wire welder for sheet metal due to the hardness of the filler. I use RG45 with an O/A gas rig to weld sheet metal. The 45k filler wire is much softer and many times I don't have to hammer it at all. I use an aircraft torch to keep the heat down to a minimum. Believe it or not, O/A/gas shields the weld pretty well during the process if done correctly. It's so much easier to weld that I would never use a 60k or 70k filler. I do use the wire feed for welding thicker metals but I also still use the old rod burner too. The wire feed keeps the stuff cleaner with Argon/CO2 mix but the rod burner is less expensive to operate out in the toolies.

[JSeery]

This is really interesting (to me at least), will have to do some research. I have trouble with something like hammer welding with gas because of having to do something with the torch or turn it on and off. And MIG is an issue because of the wire. And TIG has it's problems as well. Haven't found the ideal, for me, solution yet.

[Zeke3]

I have been practicing my gas welding skills and trying to follow rotor wrench' suggestions. Not very pretty yet. I am using a small old Harris torch. Next step is to drop down to a 0 tip size and see how that goes. I was not able to find RG-45 filler rod in a diameter smaller than 1/16". I asked my welding shop about TIG filler rod, but it was the same ER70-S6 material as the MIG wire, or something very similar.

I did the firewall repair in my avatar photo with the MIG welder and I am pleased with how it turned out after some grinding. That was before I had the O/A setup.

Oh well, keep practicing with the torch.

[JSeery]

I really like using a torch, but for some reason it always ends up being a juggling act for me!!

[flatheadmurre]

I have an old Dillon O/A from Henrob works great.
You can cut a comb from 1/4 steel with it and very good heat control welding.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

When we were boxing deuce rails for about 10 years in my chassis fab shop we used a wire between S1 and S6 both for strength and ease of grinding. I can't find the exact number anymore. We used 75/25 gas. The man that worked for me for 10 years boxing rails got to be a dam good mig welder. When he first started he left a lot of material to grind but after a few years he was leaving minimal excess. We never had any complaints about rails separating so he must have burned them together good. Still seemed like we went thru a lot of 24 grit discs over the years

I would bet this man you had welding took more time to make better fitting
joints. When welding with MIG you are always applying metal. On joints that
but up to each other depending on the thickness of the metal leave a slight
gap. .023 wire will make any welds required on autos. You can cut the speed
of the wire down real slow which cuts the amps or speed it way up and get
close to 200 amps. The voltage has to be adjusted to properly burn the wire
at the tip. You can speed smaller wire to get more heat or amps but you can
not cut large wire for real low heat. I got into MIG welding back in the late
40's when MIG welders were giant machines made by Arco and GE. They
were used on welding heavy metals. I made the first body shop machines
which we called Fender Menders. At that time C25 {75% argon /25% CO2}
was not available. We used a bottle of argon and a bottle of CO2 and mixed
them with a "Y" hose. The gas would build up pressure when you were not
welding and come out in a big gush when you pulled the trigger and disrupt
the arc for a few seconds at start. I put a small length of .035 contact tip in
the gas hose where it entered the handle of the gun. This cut the gas surge
and also let a little gas bleed out on the small ball of wire on the end of the
gun. This cooled the wire in gas making it easy to start the arc the next time.
My company made MIG welders for Air Products, Hobart, Forney and Snap On
tool company for years. I sold the company over 40 years ago and they still
make MIG welders for Snap On. In fact I think they are almost 100% Snap
On. For light MIG welding you need a lighter shaded glass than on larger
diameter wire heavy metal welding. I am close to 90 years old, my eye sight
is 20/20, hand is still steady and still do a little MIG and gas welding. Back
when we first started there was only a couple makes of small MIG wires made.
They were all hard and hard to grind but we got by. G.M.

[rotorwrench]

I learned O/A gas welding in A&P school. We used a torch that was very similar to the modern Victor J-28 torch handle but older & made in USA. They still had the carbide generator set up to make the acetylene. There is a lot to learn and good quality two stage regulators help a lot with the little torches. The key thing to know in never draw more than 5 psi of acetylene. If a person draws it too quick the bottle can get unstable. Good safety practices go a long way.

I use an old Victor torch that was made in the early 80s now. They aren't available anymore but Smith's makes one even smaller than mine. I don't know if it will work well but mine sure does. I keep RG45 filler in my hand when I'm welding but really only use it to cool the weld if it looks too hot while welding between the spot welds. If you butt the metal close enough, you don't need much filler at all unless the metal is thick like on a Ford tractor engine cover. Most old Ford steel is thick enough that it won't blow through unless corrosion has made it real thin. I've had a lot of practice on rusty old Fords and I find it a lot easier than tig welding.

With wire feed, I always just made a series of tack welds until it was completely stitched up. With O/A, I still tack it but I can make the tacks farther apart then jump around in between making sure not to let the whole panel get too hot. Patience is a virtue when welding thin stuff. Getting to know what the metal is going to do when it gets hot is half the battle.

[Don]

RKSPA,,,built up 4 or 5 old ford over the years using my snap on mig with .023 wire and 75-25 mix,seems like I always had to grind a lot,probally just memust have been the s-7 wire,picked up a 10# roll of s-6 today guy said it was a little softer and would finish a little easier !tried it out and my snap on welder really likes it,flows out better than what I was using,I’m no schooled welder but have learned a lot over the years,very seldom will I be using anything heavier than 1/4 inch then I get out the stick welder which I can’t hardly see what I’m welding!not much better with the mig,,,have one of the auto helmets ,still have a hard time seeing where I’m welding,can’t seem to get rite shade!!!

[JSeery]

Ya, guess I just need to go with the stitch and grind welds. I like to hammer the welds and not grind, but it is almost a two man operation. You have to have somewhere to put to torch and/or turn it off about every inch or even less. And you have to move fairly quickly. At one time had my kids and later my grandkids help me and it worked well. Just not good at it old and by myself, LOL. I do like the hammer weld though and it also help with the shrinking of the metal some.

[Tinker]

I like straight argon so I can take the bottle from the mig to tig. Works for aluminum too. .23 soft is great for sheet metal stuff .35 is a great all around wire. tac move then walk away. Grinding adds just as much heat to sheet metal. A pro welder still blows my mind stacking dimes.

[36coupe]

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Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

I have an old Dillon O/A from Henrob works great.
You can cut a comb from 1/4 steel with it and very good heat control welding.

I have a cobra/henrob torch which is the same. Just learning, I built a few exhausts 2 steel and one stainless butt welding mandrel bent tubing. Turned out nice especially in the engine bay with lots of direction changes.
In my little mig welder I have EZ grind wire, it is much softer to grind. It’s worth trying. I bought 2 rolls on eBay. Shipping was as much as the wire.

[RKS.PA]

Originally Posted by Don

RKSPA,,,built up 4 or 5 old ford over the years using my snap on mig with .023 wire and 75-25 mix,seems like I always had to grind a lot,probally just memust have been the s-7 wire,picked up a 10# roll of s-6 today guy said it was a little softer and would finish a little easier !tried it out and my snap on welder really likes it,flows out better than what I was using,I’m no schooled welder but have learned a lot over the years,very seldom will I be using anything heavier than 1/4 inch then I get out the stick welder which I can’t hardly see what I’m welding!not much better with the mig,,,have one of the auto helmets ,still have a hard time seeing where I’m welding,can’t seem to get rite shade!!!

Don, sounds like your new wire is getting you where you want to be!! I know what you mean by being able to see the material. When doing smaller piece work, I try to be out in the sun. I have a Miller helmet...auto darkening...with added magnifying lenses inside...that's in addition to my bifocals!!! I'm happy with it for both stick and mig.

Best of luck with your projects.....Dick.

[tubman]

I have trouble seeing as well and I have found that the magnifying lens in the helmet that works best WITHOUT my glasses lets me see the best. I think the sight going through two modifications (the lens and then the glasses) is not the best method.

[Don]

Maybe need to see about the maginifying lenses,think my helmet is a miller also!!

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Tinker

I like straight argon so I can take the bottle from the mig to tig. Works for aluminum too. .23 soft is great for sheet metal stuff .35 is a great all around wire. tac move then walk away. Grinding adds just as much heat to sheet metal. A pro welder still blows my mind stacking dimes.

Straight argon don't work very well with steel MIG welding with the short arc
process. With argon you get an undercut along both edges of the weld on the
base metal. The surface of the weld will have a ruff finish and it don't run real
smooth. G.M.

[Flathead]

I used to gas weld with coat hangers, got pretty good at it but times have changed I guess.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Flathead

I used to gas weld with coat hangers, got pretty good at it but times have changed I guess.

That was fairly common amoung the dirt track guys when I was younger.

[tubman]

I think guys would still be doing it except when was the last time you saw a metal coat hanger? I think they are extinct (except maybe in some of you married guys closets).

[Tinker]

You are absolutely right GM. I should be better at explaining myself. That's on me.

In my opinion. I am far from a pro welder. And it is just my opinion.

Straight argon works well for tig. I don't mig very often. But I can use it for most practical proposes. At $250 a tank for a second tank, I'll do that. If I'm doing structural I will do tig over mig everytime. But if you are welding aluminum on mig you should use straight argon. Tacking sheet metal with mig and argon is less worrisome. Burn through maybe in my experience.

Tungsten Inert Gas (TIG) welding require pure Argon (AR) as a shielding gas to protect the weld pool from oxidation and from Nitrogen absorption. Regardless of what type of metal you are welding whether it is mild steel. stainless steel, copper or aluminum the gas you should use is Pure Argon


.

[Tony, NY]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Ya, guess I just need to go with the stitch and grind welds. I like to hammer the welds and not grind, but it is almost a two man operation. You have to have somewhere to put to torch and/or turn it off about every inch or even less. And you have to move fairly quickly. At one time had my kids and later my grandkids help me and it worked well. Just not good at it old and by myself, LOL. I do like the hammer weld though and it also help with the shrinking of the metal some.

Scroll down to Gas-Saver. Pricey, but does the job.
https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/3606

[JSeery]

That would be nice. $229.32

"Hang your torch on these holders to turn off the gas flow and extinguish the flame during shutdown and between use. Start the gas flow by lifting the torch off the support lever and pass the tip over the pilot light to ignite."

[Tony, NY]

Mig brazing (silcon- bronze) sounds interesting. I've seen the Tig brazing but not the Mig. Lower melting point than steel. Some of this video is hard to stay with, but worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPI_XNCrES8

[rotorwrench]

Originally Posted by JSeery

That would be nice. $229.32

"Hang your torch on these holders to turn off the gas flow and extinguish the flame during shutdown and between use. Start the gas flow by lifting the torch off the support lever and pass the tip over the pilot light to ignite."

Those things are neat but I just use a home made stand to hold the torch while it's still lit. It's handy when I'm pulling off magnets, clamps, or clecos during welding processes. I generally do my hammering after I've welded a good bit. The metal can cool off some during this process. If it stretches, I just shrink it back up after. When there is no access behind then a person may have to file or grind some but not all that much. There is always a way to move the metal as long as it's not too thick or too far out of shape.

The torch stations are best for production work. They will save some gas anyway. Most folks use Tig for production. Not too many airplanes or helicopters use steel tube frames anymore but there are still a few. The tig is the best way to weld thick stuff to thin stuff. You have to be pretty good with a torch to do that. The Tig is more forgiving.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Those things are neat but I just use a home made stand to hold the torch while it's still lit. It's handy when I'm pulling off magnets, clamps, or clecos during welding processes.

That's ok for a short time, but if you're going back and forth hammering it burns a lot of gas. But I don't have anything better, turning the torch on and off is also a big PITA. Just the way it is I guess. The gizmo is kinda cool, have to figure the price of gas vs the price of a new toy.

[cas3]

when gas welding on the bench, i stick the torch into one of the height adjustment holes in my press to keep it going while you get set up for the next weld. works good, but we are not always near the press