Sputter, cough and die. Problem found.

[1crosscut]

I was working on a 1929 5 window coupe that a fellow club member purchased a couple weeks ago. The car had sat for several years without running. Unfortunately they had left fuel in the car and the carburetor was gummed up pretty bad.
I pulled the carburetor to clean and re-built it.
The car would idle great and drive in first gear pretty good. Once into second or third it would sputter, cough and die.
Compression on all four cylinders was great at 65 psi give or take a pound or two.
Swapped carburetor with a different one. Same issue.
Put in new points, condenser and plugs. No improvement.
Ground off the small amount of fuel line extending out from the two compression fittings on the fuel line. No improvement.
Then swapped out coil with a known good one. Thought I might have found the problem as when I went to take one of the small nuts holding one of the wires to the coil the plastic mounting crumbled away. Unfortunately there was no improvement.
Manifold gaskets looked not so good so I replaced them. Again no improvement.
Pulled dash panel and checked for shorted wires along with an inspection of the junction box. No issues found there.
Pulled the distributor and dissembled it. Found that the flexible wire under the movable plate had most of the wires broken inside the insulating wire jacket. Replaced the wire.
BINGO!

Just thought I would share as perhaps it might help someone else.

[antiquepa]

I Know someone that had the same problem..I'll pass it on..Thanks for the feed back!!

[Y-Blockhead]

Thanks for sharing. It's great when someone passes along an experience that others can learn from. Good goin'.

[H. L. Chauvin]

At least it was not the normal eight millionth "Won't-run-right" suggestion we heard on Model A Forums for the past 18 years; i.e.,:

"Change the condenser." LOL

[mshmodela]

Seems I've read that wire can be troublesome... a spare is in my go bag of spare parts... Thanks for shaing what some symptoms a defective wire can be.

[Larry Jenkins]

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Makes the case for the new dissy top ends.. No wire..

Larry Jenkins

[Spokes]

Thanks for the info. It will remind me to always check the wire under the plate.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

Pulled the distributor and dissembled it. Found that the flexible wire under the movable plate had most of the wires broken inside the insulating wire jacket. Replaced the wire.
BINGO!

Just thought I would share as perhaps it might help someone else.

Might I suggest that others that find this problem go to a hobby shop and ask for some wire that they use in RC car battery packs. It is very flexible, has many strands, and will not harden with heat.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Larry Jenkins

Makes the case for the new dissy top ends.. No wire..

Larry Jenkins

i have had many cars find my shop that had issues with the wireless plates. many of the wires in the dist's have lasted 80 plus years. these wires are something that need to be looked at periodically when going through the dist.
as you mentioned no need to reinvent the wheel

[H. L. Chauvin]

Bratton's & I'm sure others have the proper soft, bendable "fine-stranded" inner distributor wire that will flex properly with upper plate circular movement as opposed to being stiff like that of regular Model A electrical wire often incorrectly used.

Also important is to install this wire correctly with rounded bends in the correct places with ends of wires properly oriented and pointed correctly at both connections.

Seems like Marco posted a diagram or photo of this inner distributor wire loop and connection arrangement maybe years ago.

In my opinion, if the correct wire is obtained and is installed properly, it will never cause problems.

[Mitch//pa]

yes HL as you mentioned they all carry the proper wire

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yes, just buy the correct wire from the parts houses, and when you install it be sure to secure it to the terminal correctly. If you have the right terminal, it will have 2 legs that wrap over the wire. the end leg wraps over the bare wire and is soldered, the other leg wraps over the insulation on the wire.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here is a picture of a distributor I rebuilt about 5 years ago. Did I mention I like lube on all moving parts.

The second picture is Marco's picture showing how the insulating washer is installed under the head of the condenser screw. It also shows how to bend the terminal, and the correct way to secure the wire to the terminal. You can buy a special plier to bend the terminal legs round as Marco's picture shows. The jaws are similar to a small needle nose, but are round and taper to a point. I think I even saw them at Harbor Freight.

[bettlesr]

When I got my car it had set for over 50 years. We had to add a second pigtail to ground the movable plate as the tabs on the plate wire not making a good ground to the distributor body.

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: If this explanation can prevent one (1) Forum member's Model A from being towed, it is worth writing it.

Wire Bending 101:

If one ever wants to breake a coat hanger wire, it can easily be done by bending the coat hanger wire with sharp radius bends which not only over stresses the wire beyond its tensile strength; but also builds up heat and thus "changes" the molecular structure of the metal.

In the all too often aforementioned repetitive distributor problem title above :

Please Note:

"He pulled the distributor and dissembled it. Found that the flexible wire under the movable plate had most of the wires "broken" inside the insulating wire jacket."

Breaking a Model A distributor's internal wire while adjusting the spark from full retard to full advance is no different from breaking a coat hanger wire if one provides sharp small radius bends in the wire.

In the Model A parts catalogs, there is an isomeric drawing of a distributor showing the position of an installed, internal distributor wire arrangement.

If you have an enemy who owns a Model A, and you want him to have a break down on a tour, 500 miles from home, and get towed because his distributor wire either broke or the insulation wore out, just install his wire like that shown in the parts catalog, where the wire ends are incorrectly oriented, the wire is too long, and the wire has short radius bends especially at the soldered connection.

Per reply # 10 above and in Mr. Wesenberg's photo in reply no. 13 above, this photo indicates one (1) of the best ways to arrange this special fine stranded wire, i.e., in the shape of a large, single radius horse shoe bend; e.g., with one (1) simple "long" radius bend, as opposed to the sharp turns indicated in the parts catalog distributor diagram.

In his above photo, please note that:

1. Both wire ends are tangent to the distributor shaft as opposed to perpendicular to the shaft; and,

2. The length of this wire was carefully shortened to allow only enough free top plate movement from the full retard to full advanced position of this particular distributor; hence no excess internal wire is causing forceful friction between the wire insulation and the hot, (in temperature), metal side of the distributor.

Just hope this helps, and thanks Mr. W. for the descriptive photo.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

When working dealers' shops, we ALWAYS replaced the pig tail leads, with a tune up & also, replaced the ROTOR, even when everything else looked OK.
Rotors take a beating & can intermittently short the spark to the distributor shaft! IF a rotor has been shorting out, it will have a RAINBOW colored area, up inside the rotor HOLE!! (AND, DON'T save the OLD one for a back up!)
Bill W.

[kevinmac/toledo]

mike; you hit that right on the nose... after looking for silicone heat resistant wire for my welder,i foung this wire at local hobby stop...rc wire many strands tinned heat resistant 200 degrees celsius...thanks mike..............kev

[barkleydave]

Just completed a 300 mile club tour. 4 breakdowns all repaired roadside.
1 Manifold Gasket
3 Ignition issues. 1 was coil 2 others shorted wires under the plate.