Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2020, 04:12 PM   #1
JOHN CT
Senior Member
 
JOHN CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In my garage
Posts: 436
Default Radial tires again

I just installed a set of American Classic 4.75/5.00 radial tires. My old Firestones tires were getting worn. The old tires wore perfectly even. The A never drifted or pulled either way. So I decided to bite the bull it and spend $$$ for new tires. The installation went very well. Went for a ride and itís pulling to the right (dam it) I checked the toe in last year. I checked the toe in today and itís off. Itís off so much that I have to remove the tie rod link and give it a turn on the left side. Have you ever heard of such of a thing? The old tires wore great
__________________
31 Tudor
66 Bonneville
57 Chevy pickup 27 T roadster pick up
JOHN CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 06:55 PM   #2
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 2,109
Default Re: Radial tires again

When you/I put new tires on its best to due an alignment !
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-16-2020, 07:27 PM   #3
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,239
Default Re: Radial tires again

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN CT View Post
I just installed a set of American Classic 4.75/5.00 radial tires. My old Firestones tires were getting worn. The old tires wore perfectly even. The A never drifted or pulled either way. So I decided to bite the bull it and spend $$$ for new tires. The installation went very well. Went for a ride and itís pulling to the right (dam it) I checked the toe in last year. I checked the toe in today and itís off. Itís off so much that I have to remove the tie rod link and give it a turn on the left side. Have you ever heard of such of a thing? The old tires wore great
Why would you remove the tie rod link - which I assume is the ball coupling at one end? The toe in is adjusted by turning the toe rod one way or the other. There is a right hand thread one end and a left hand one on the other. As for pulling right now, I also assume the tyre pressures are even?
__________________
It is no burden to carry a little extra knowledge.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2020, 06:46 PM   #4
Reelnative
Junior Member
 
Reelnative's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 18
Default Re: Radial tires again

Is there such a thing as radial tire pull on these type of tires? I know occasionally we would have move tires around to prevent it.
Reelnative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 10:07 AM   #5
Dave in MN
Senior Member
 
Dave in MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jordan, MN
Posts: 1,277
Default Re: Radial tires again

I know this is splitting hairs but with excessive toe-in and only the driver in the car while test driving, there is more weight on the drivers side front tire. It would make sense that it is pulling to the right. The left front tire with more weight on it is pushing the car to the right with excessive toe-in.

Dial the toe-in to about 1/16" and try it again. As Synchro909 said, loosen the tie rod end clamp bolts and rotate the actual tie rod only as the ends have left and right threads. It won't take much rotation of the rod to make a correction. 1/16" may be a bit light but your test drive will guide you as to the correct toe-in.

Before our last long road trip, I replaced my tires and wheels from 21" bias ply to 16" radials of equal diameter to the original tires on the rear and slightly smaller on the front. It became much more reactive to the steering wheel but less reactive to changing road surfaces. It took a bit of driving to get used to the difference.
Good Day!

Last edited by Dave in MN; 06-19-2020 at 10:15 AM.
Dave in MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 02:05 PM   #6
JOHN CT
Senior Member
 
JOHN CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In my garage
Posts: 436
Default Re: Radial tires again

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I appreciate all the ideas but when I set the toe in on the LF to the the 1/6 that I need. Then I check the right front I have a 0 tie in. When I turn the tie rod to get 1/6 the LF becomes out of Specs. That’s why I think I have to turn the tie rod end.
__________________
31 Tudor
66 Bonneville
57 Chevy pickup 27 T roadster pick up
JOHN CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 02:52 PM   #7
wmws
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 719
Default Re: Radial tires again

How are you checking your toe in. You don't do one wheel at a time. Toe in is measured by measuring the distance between the tires in front of the axle and then behind the axle. The measurement should be 1/16 inch shorter in front of the axle. Take the measurements up about a foot on the tire.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 03:15 PM   #8
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 791
Default Re: Radial tires again

If you are getting a difference in toe in - left to right the car must be on the ground or floor. The correct procedure to check/adjust toe in will not allow a difference from one side to the other due the to the mechanics of the steering system - the wheels need to be off the floor.

John

Last edited by aermotor; 06-19-2020 at 03:26 PM.
aermotor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 03:51 PM   #9
Dave in MN
Senior Member
 
Dave in MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jordan, MN
Posts: 1,277
Default Re: Radial tires again

[QUOTE=aermotor;1900756]If you are getting a difference in toe in - left to right the car must be on the ground or floor. The correct procedure to check/adjust toe in will not allow a difference from one side to the other due the to the mechanics of the steering system - the wheels need to be off the floor.

John[/QUOTE

John, The instructions I have with my Ideal Wheel Aligning Gauge by Wheel-A-Matic Corp, instructs to have the weight of the car on the wheels.

Cut from the instructions.
WA0361 & WA0374 Toe Measuring Gauge Instructions
TO ASSEMBLE: – The RED screw, 2 1/2 inches from the scale is for packing only. When removing it hold some pressure on the end of the gauge to prevent the spring from snapping out. No tools are required for this.
Depress push button and insert tube into larger one. Holes are used to adjust for different width vehicle. The additional button and set of holes are for wide vehicles.

TO USE: – Pull vehicle forward at least 3 feet before placing gauge in position. Press out on front of wheels to take up play. Set the gauge in position between the tires at the front of wheels, with ends bearing on tires. Chains must just touch floor. Spring pressure will hold gauge in position on tires. Set movable scale so pointer is at Zero.
Leaving gauge between wheels, move vehicle forward until gauge comes into position at back of wheels with chains just touching floor. Pointer will then show amount of Toe-in.
To clean sliding tube, remove by taking out screw.


Good Day!
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 825DE6BD-A10E-432C-8988-7C3581E461CE.jpeg (109.6 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpeg 28073997-5EE9-4AF0-BB5B-70971B0BE0C2.jpeg (72.6 KB, 49 views)

Last edited by Dave in MN; 06-22-2020 at 03:18 PM.
Dave in MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 04:37 PM   #10
JOHN CT
Senior Member
 
JOHN CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In my garage
Posts: 436
Default Re: Radial tires again

[QUOTE=Dave in MN;1900768]
Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
If you are getting a difference in toe in - left to right the car must be on the ground or floor. The correct procedure to check/adjust toe in will not allow a difference from one side to the other due the to the mechanics of the steering system - the wheels need to be off the floor.

John[/QUOTE

John, The instructions I have with my Ideal Wheel Aligning Gauge by Wheel-A-Magic Corp, instructs to have the weight of the car on the wheels.
The car is on the ground. I switched the to front tires. Tomorrow Iíll go for a ride and hopefully my problem will go away
__________________
31 Tudor
66 Bonneville
57 Chevy pickup 27 T roadster pick up
JOHN CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 04:53 PM   #11
Boston Bruce
Senior Member
 
Boston Bruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maine and SC
Posts: 181
Default Re: Radial tires again

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmws View Post
How are you checking your toe in. You don't do one wheel at a time.

John, you didn't answer this question. I have always done the alignment (setting the toe in) using an alignment tool like the Ideal tool that was mentioned. I have an original Dubie alignment tool that works like the Ideal.


I have no idea how you would adjust each wheel separately.
Boston Bruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 05:28 PM   #12
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 11,950
Default Re: Radial tires again

Even if you could check each side independently, the two are forever related by the tie rod. One side reads 1/16" and the other reads 0 then the difference between the two would be 1/32" toe in.

I would raise the front and check for any sign of loose spindle bearings first & foremost. I'd then rotate each wheel and check for any sign of wobble due to a bent wheel. This kind of stuff can make it hell to try and properly adjust the toe in.

The caster and camber are harder to adjust without axle or wishbone bending tools but radials should do OK with factory settings as long as the axle & radius rod are still in good condition.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 06:04 PM   #13
JOHN CT
Senior Member
 
JOHN CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In my garage
Posts: 436
Default Re: Radial tires again

[QUOTE=Dave in MN;1900768]
Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
If you are getting a difference in toe in - left to right the car must be on the ground or floor. The correct procedure to check/adjust toe in will not allow a difference from one side to the other due the to the mechanics of the steering system - the wheels need to be off the floor.

John[/QUOTE

John, The instructions I have with my Ideal Wheel Aligning Gauge by Wheel-A-Magic Corp, instructs to have the weight of the car on the wheels.
I just borrowed Ideal aligning gauge. Iíll get on level ground and do it the right way tomorrow
__________________
31 Tudor
66 Bonneville
57 Chevy pickup 27 T roadster pick up
JOHN CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 06:48 PM   #14
Ak Sourdough
Member
 
Ak Sourdough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 84
Default Re: Radial tires again

I use 2 framing squares. Park on concrete, one square against the inside of the sidewall of each front tire with the long leg of each square on the floor and pointed at each other. I usually do the front side of the axle first, for no particular reason.


Just measure the distance across the squares, outside to outside. Move the squares to the rear sides of the tires and compare your numbers. You can also pick a place on the tread to measure from , just be certain you measure to the same place on the front and back side of the tires.


I like to move the car backward a few inches and then back to the same place without moving the steering wheel to measure after I make an adjustment to the length of the tie rod. That way I'm sure I've eliminated the springiness/tension of the rubber against the floor giving me a false reading.


Using squares lets you measure at spindle height on any car no matter what the engineers put between the tires.
__________________
I still have an excellent rememberer, trouble is my forgetter is so much better that it often overrides the rememberer.
Ak Sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 06:54 PM   #15
Ak Sourdough
Member
 
Ak Sourdough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 84
Default Re: Radial tires again

Oh yeah, if you're working by yourself, it's handy to clamp a 1 x 4 or a piece of metal flat bar to one or both squares. Helps make up for only having 2 hands.
__________________
I still have an excellent rememberer, trouble is my forgetter is so much better that it often overrides the rememberer.
Ak Sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2020, 08:32 AM   #16
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 11,950
Default Re: Radial tires again

Some folks use the spring tube types or trammel bars but some still just use a tape measure. The key is measuring at the same height off the floor on both the front and the rear and also the same place on the tires. Any method will get into the ball park as long as the wheels are true & bearings are tight.

Most of the toe gages are less than 100 bucks plus shipping so they don't break the bank.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2020, 11:27 AM   #17
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 791
Default Re: Radial tires again

I hate to rehash this issue but Les Andrews books states - 1. Jack the front end of the car up just enough to raise the front wheels off the ground. I have no issue with the various measuring procedures, however, I believe that tire friction could cause enough flex in the tie rod while the car is not in motion and on the ground to make a 1/16" difference one way or the other in the toe-in without "slip plates". Maybe these modern alignment tools and procedures are for rack and pinion steering?? I can't find a procedure in the Ford Service Bulletins for checking toe-in. As I said before the toe-in CAN'T be different from one side to the other with this steering geometry - discounting wear.

John
aermotor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2020, 09:23 AM   #18
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 11,950
Default Re: Radial tires again

The car has to be set up for toe in the way that it's going to be going down the road which means that it has to have the full weight on the ground.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2020, 09:05 AM   #19
JRHASZARD
Senior Member
 
JRHASZARD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ophelia,Va.
Posts: 211
Default Re: Radial tires again

On my Cessna 180, a conventional gear airplane, toe in is critical. I have four 12"X12" steel plates. I place two under each wheel with grease between each set of plates. This relieves the strain from the tires and the spring steel gear legs. Then the toe in is measured with two framing squares as described by Ak Sourdough. I have done this on the Model A also with good results. I believe it gives a more accurate measurement.
JRHASZARD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 05:42 PM   #20
Karl Wolf
Senior Member
 
Karl Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mill Valley,Ca.
Posts: 1,403
Default Re: Radial tires again

I put a 2x4 on the outside of each front wheel, blocked up with bricks.
Put two tape measures across, under the car, hook both on same side- one front, one rear.
Read the front, rear to determine toe.

Start the whole process by rotating tires for runout. Where the 2x4s meet tires

Any questions?

Karl
Karl Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48 AM.