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Old 04-25-2018, 07:42 PM   #1
copgib
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Default New or Used Parts

I am planning to put juice brakes on my 1930 Model A. I plan to buy my parts from Berts. My question is do I buy all new parts or buy used parts from Berts for installing juice brakes on my Model A. Hugh
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

It is hard to believe that 61 people have read my post and no one has an opinon on my question. Hugh
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Ok, I will respond to your question.
I just redid my brakes, I went to the cast iron drums but stayed with the mechanical brakes.
They work flawlessly !
There is absolutely no way that hydraulic brakes can be better. If I push them hard they can and will lock up.
With that said I do not see the reason to deviate that far from the original design. My thoughts are that is probably why most have read your question and not responded. Most of the people on this site do not want to offend others.
I think that if you go through your brake system completely you will be very happy, and probably more importantly you will retain more value to your car.
Yes, you or the next owner could always revert back..but the cost to revert would be very high.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

I agree with Mike, it will be easier to fix what you have, my opinion Bob
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

I figured that is why no one was responding. This doesn't bother me at all I guess 31a is right when he stated it is easier to fix what you have. You see I don't have any original brakes on my Model A. Presently it has hydraulic brakes on the rear which do work. The cost to put same on front would be much cheaper that installing the complete Mechanical brake system. Thanks for your input. Hugh
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

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Hello Hugh,
I understand why you want to go hydraulically, please let me elaborate a bit.
I have three old vehicles...my 1931 Slant Window, a 1966 Mustang hardtop with a 289 V-8 with automatic, then a 1951 Ford F-1 that is a hot rod.
The A as previously stated has mechanical brakes, the Mustang has hydraulic brakes not power assist, and the Truckhas power disc/drums.
The A can and will out stop the mustang every time. I redid the braking system on the Mustang last year and included the dual master cylinder for safety. When pushing the brakes I find that I have to use as much force on the Mustang as I do the A.
I hope that you reconsider this decision...read through some of the older posts.
But in reality the final decision is yours...it is your car!
Best of luck,
Mike
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Mike, if I had mechanical brakes on the car I wouldnt switch either. All I was asking for was some honest input on the subject. I am a retired deputy Sheriff and it would take alot to hurt my feelings. But as I stated my Model A has only hydraulic brakes on the back and no signs of mechanical brakes on the vehicle, so staying with hydraulics would be the easiest and cheapest way to go. Thanks for taking the time to address my quesion. Hugh
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Hugh, I don't know what your budget is, or what brakes you have on the rear, but lets consider you definitely will put hydraulics on the front of your A. You could go either way, used parts or new. There are a lot of 40 Ford brakes around, as many people are changing from the old Lockheed 12 inch brakes to the Lincoln style Bendix 12 inch brakes. Actually I am one of those people, and will be removing my front brakes for this upgrade. There are a ton of sources for the 40 ford to model A upgrade. They will bolt right up on the Model A. Research the articles and then decide which way to go. The 12 inch bendix are being made again and are a direct bolt on for Ford spindles. Cost of the 12 inch Bendix is about $600 all new components. Or you could use the 40 ford take offs and do the job for $200.

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Old 04-25-2018, 10:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

If it were I doing this I'd try to find someone that wants hydraulics for their stock A and trade, redoing everything that needs redoing. If I couldn't make the trade, I would look into the advertisers in the Restorer. There is one in the Central Valley that makes all new stuff based, I believe, on the Buick brakes. I have three A's, two with mechanicals and one with hydraulics (came that way) and in my case the hydraulics do stop better without locking up, but all cars have 600 X 16 tires on the road and do stop well, though it takes more pressure on the pedal on my stock ones. But, they never leak nor will one bad cylinder render all brakes relying on how strong and quickly I can pull the emergency brake, a bad thing to do with mechanicals but okay with hydraulics. I had a pin fall out of the system on the hyd. and render the pedal useless but the rear brakes got me home with judicious use of the hand brake. I wouldn't have tried that on a freeway with mechanicals with the pedal laying on the floorboard. (I am using 39-42 brakes on the front and <48's on the rear. If I change them I will get rid of the early ones for ease of adjusting.)
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:57 PM   #10
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I think we need a better understanding about what you have. I think you said that you have a master cylinder all mounted and functional but the hydraulic line only went to the rear brakes?

If I am right and everything is functioning properly all you need to do is install hydraulic brakes in the front and run a line to them. Right?

So we are all on the same page how about a picture of your rear backing plates, especially show the 6 o'clock position. Also a picture of how the master cylinder is mounted.

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Old 04-25-2018, 11:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

I was mistaken, MT brakes by Boling Bros. is based on Lincoln brakes. WWW.MTCARPRODUCTS.COM PHONE 559 562 5840 LINDSAY, CA
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Here is the dilemma everyone in your situation ultimately faces...Once the front wheels and surface of the tires are capable of a skid at the point of braking at the road surface the tire isnít smart enough to know if a hydraulic or a mechanical brake was actuated to cause the skid...therefore, once you achieve a skid of Model A braking...will hydraulics improve that?

No. Because itís an impossible task, to improve braking once youíre capable of making the carís front brakes skid...except...when and if you change the tire foot-print to a wider surface area in contact with the road surface...by increasing the tire width you increase stopping power...thatís why you see so many model Aís with later model wheels which provide a wide tire surface and increased stopping power when the brakes are actuated. I hope that helps you...one consideration worth suggesting is Henryís answer to better brakes was not initially hydraulics...in 1932 with the increases in HP he increased the footprint of the braking surfaces and the tire surfaces at the same time while maintaining a mechanical brakes system...í32 backing plates and components arenít expensive and cosmetically nearly indistinguishable from the Model A parts...only a very few individuals would even be able to recognize the differences, particularly if it was mounted on the car.


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Old 04-26-2018, 11:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

I have performance Model A's, and highly recommend hydraulics. Their larger diameter, wider shoes and cast iron drums can only help stopping, especially in the hills where they are used repeatably. People brag about their mechanicals, I have never ridden in a Model A that has good mechanicals, including "expert" restorations. I use silicone fluid in them, this eliminates rusting cylinders, a common problem in cars that are not used often. As to which to use, they are all good, so price would be the deciding factor to me. My personal preference is the '39-'48 Wagoners. Hydraulics were designed for cars that weigh 3,000 lbs. and more, Model A mechanicals were on cars that weighed 2500 or less.
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by restoredguy View Post
Here is the dilemma everyone in your situation ultimately faces...Once the front wheels and surface of the tires are capable of a skid at the point of braking at the road surface the tire isnít smart enough to know if a hydraulic or a mechanical brake was actuated to cause the skid...therefore, once you achieve a skid of Model A braking...will hydraulics improve that?

No. Because itís an impossible task, to improve braking once youíre capable of making the carís front brakes skid...except...when and if you change the tire foot-print to a wider surface area in contact with the road surface...by increasing the tire width you increase stopping power...thatís why you see so many model Aís with later model wheels which provide a wide tire surface and increased stopping power when the brakes are actuated. I hope that helps you...one consideration worth suggesting is Henryís answer to better brakes was not initially hydraulics...in 1932 with the increases in HP he increased the footprint of the braking surfaces and the tire surfaces at the same time while maintaining a mechanical brakes system...í32 backing plates and components arenít expensive and cosmetically nearly indistinguishable from the Model A parts...only a very few individuals would even be able to recognize the differences, particularly if it was mounted on the car.


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I agree 100% when you say "the tire isnít smart enough to know if a hydraulic or a mechanical brake was actuated to cause the skid...therefore, once you achieve a skid of Model A braking...will hydraulics improve that? ". I must agree that hydraulics will not improve that. But I also note that you said "tire" in the singular. The problem is with the tires (plural). With mechanical brakes you don't get the same force applied to all 4 tires. Proper rebuilding and adjusting will solve the problems but I bet that 50% of the Model A's on the road meet that criteria. I have mechanical brakes on my car but they are in the 50% that are properly rebuilt and adjusted.

Your "footprint" observation is interesting. Most often overlooked is that the downward force on the tire is less with a larger footprint. I hear this often but would sure like to see some real tests conducted on this theory.

Charlie Stephens
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Old 04-26-2018, 05:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Ok guys I appreciate everyone's opinon, and I for one do not get offended when someone states mechanical is prefered over hydraulic brakes. Although my model A has hydraulics on the rear and none on the front, I am presently looking for a mechanic that could put mechanical brakes on my car. So far no luck. I am looking though. I haven't made up my mind for sure yet. Thanks for all the input though. Hugh
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Used,
https://lainefamily.com/ModelAFiles/...akeUpgrade.htm


New


https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...t-1928-31.html
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Old 04-27-2018, 02:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

Personally my answer is whatever you have available. New is good. Refurbished good is good. Used seals that leak, not good. Perished hoses with cracks, bad.
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:17 AM   #18
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

To save some money, you can find rolling frames available with all of the mechanical components there for the brakes. Get cast iron drums and you are good to go. Jack
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:54 AM   #19
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^^^^^ one instance where hot rodders are your friend, mechanical brake parts are so easy to locate and relatively cheap.....
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: New or Used Parts

If your settled on hydraulic do what it take to make them safe."Good enough" isnt. Looks like your working with a professional for parts,find a professional installer too.As for new or used parts,the foundation parts,the mechanical parts...shoes,backing plates and drums can be used but have to check out and measure out.Hydraulic parts should be new,but you can rework wheel and master cylinders,once again,like all brake work its has to be spot on,when your done sleeving and rebuilding cylinders you approach the price of new.

Mechanical brakes require a degree of skill,you have to tune them to maximize their efficiency and require periodic maintenance to maintain top performance.Hydraulic brakes,once installed require much less periodic maintenance and less pedal effort for application.

It also has to do with you,I enjoy the shop time,the solitude and satisfaction.Others avoid it.Understanding which kind of cat you are will make this decision easier.
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