Flathead city, Gary Howard, Grants Pass, Or

[[email protected]]

Anyone here have problems with Flathead city?


I talked to him in Jan 2019 a few times and finally ordered a 8ba from him Jan 30 2019. Gave him my credit card number and he said it would be ready in 30 days. It is now June 2 and repeated attempts to contact him with no response.
Anybody have any suggestions. I think he recognizes my number and let's the phone go to message. I leave a message and never get a call back.

[Dave Castle]

Did he charge your account ?

[[email protected]]

Yes, he charged my account the same day and the credit card company wants a copy of his return policy in order to cancel the charge. It never occurred to me to ask for those things since I have never had a problem with any vendors like this.

[Tinker]

Are you close to the shop? Stop by and talk to him. Never heard of a card card not just canceling a charge if disputed. Could report it as fraud to the CC, personally I'd do it after going and talking face to face and no resolve. But I would make a visit. I would have done this before sending any big money.

[flatjack9]

I'm building an engine for a guy who got screwed by this company. Sent him his engine and a bunch of parts and a lot of money and hasn't gotten a thing in over a year and a half now. Not a happy man. I'd steer clear of this outfit.

[expavr]

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Originally Posted by [email protected]

Anyone here have problems with Flathead city?


I talked to him in Jan 2019 a few times and finally ordered a 8ba from him Jan 30 2019. Gave him my credit card number and he said it would be ready in 30 days. It is now June 2 and repeated attempts to contact him with no response.
Anybody have any suggestions. I think he recognizes my number and let's the phone go to message. I leave a message and never get a call back.

FWIW this BBB report doesn’t look good.
https://www.bbb.org/us/or/grants-pas...-1296-22960725

[Ziggster]

Came across this site a few weeks back and thought it looked a bit odd as no parts were really listed. Hope things work out.

[skidmarks]

6/28/18 BBB complaint says his mother died twice.

[Tim Ayers]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad dealings with this company. What I love about this hobby, a lot of it is done on someone's word or a gentleman's agreement. Getting ripped off stinks no matter what.

I hope this works out and you can get your parts back and be made whole again. Good luck.

[chap52]

Where are you located?

Any "Barners" near Grants Pass, Oregon willing to check into this for a fellow Flatheader?

I am no longer in that area, but during the mid-seventies I lived on a mining claim in the woods near Merlin for almost three years. I am certain that there are some old hippies still in the area that visit him for you. Kinda scary as I think about it. Chap

[TJ]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Anyone here have problems with Flathead city?


I talked to him in Jan 2019 a few times and finally ordered a 8ba from him Jan 30 2019. Gave him my credit card number and he said it would be ready in 30 days. It is now June 2 and repeated attempts to contact him with no response.
Anybody have any suggestions. I think he recognizes my number and let's the phone go to message. I leave a message and never get a call back.

If you are a V-8 Club member check your roster for members in the Grants Pass area. Cal them to see what they know about this guy. You might also call Grants Pass Police Dept. to see if they have any info on the guy. Another option is to make contact with the Josephine County District Attorney's office Consumer Fraud division to file a complaint. If this guy has a history it will be known as Grants Pass is not that big.

[Dave Castle]

His return policy should not matter, just dispute the charge as "product never received ".

[D. Jones]

GBM,

I would call the Oregon Department of Justice Consumer Protection Division at
1 877-877-9392 and talk with them. Sometimes a call from them will make things happen. They very well may be aware of him and working a case. At least your call will make them aware of him.

[modeleh]

Bob Drake Ford parts is in Grant’s Pass. Perhaps a call to them might provide some useful information. They had a bulletin board in the store where locals post Ford stuff for sale.

[[email protected]]

Thank you all, I do everything over the phone as I live in Alaska. He still won't answer my calls or texts. I will try each of your suggestions. I may even fly down there. I have kind of a temper when people try to rip me off . I'm not sure a face to face will go well.

[Newc]

Hi all; Oregon V8 rgs 9, 10, 82 +85 are aware of this fellow, as he tries to buy cores locally. Did not know of these other problems, no delivery... WOW Newc in Oregon

[Alaska Jim]

Just curious, where in Alaska do you live, and do I know you?

[john in illinois]

GBM I had a situation where I sent a guy an order for 3,000 and paid with credit card. He did not have the parts and for every excuse he had I replied with an email.

when it was apparent he did not have anything, I notified credit card company and sent copies of emails. They immediately credited me .

You might want to send an email to him outlining your problems. A paper trail should work with a credit card company.

Since you received no goods, his return policy should mean nothing.

Good Luck,John

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Anyone here have problems with Flathead city?


I talked to him in Jan 2019 a few times and finally ordered a 8ba from him Jan 30 2019. Gave him my credit card number and he said it would be ready in 30 days. It is now June 2 and repeated attempts to contact him with no response.
Anybody have any suggestions. I think he recognizes my number and let's the phone go to message. I leave a message and never get a call back.

Have you tried calling from a different phone?

Charlie Stephens

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Thank you all, I do everything over the phone as I live in Alaska. He still won't answer my calls or texts. I will try each of your suggestions. I may even fly down there. I have kind of a temper when people try to rip me off . I'm not sure a face to face will go well.

First, I would call the Grants Pass police department and file a charge against him OR at least talk to a detective to see what he suggest. I got scammed years ago on a Pines Winterfront grill. ME and another fellow ended up calling the local sheriff and his investigator could not "officially" charge him (because of the value...$600) BUT through a couple visits and "implied" actions (it took about a month or so) he got two money orders from him for almost all our money back!!!! IF you can get a few others who have suffer the same fate, that helps!!!! PLUS...that much value across state lines "Could" constitute "Federal" charges and interest from larger authority!!!

[53F250]

Keep us posted as to what you explore. I too have an engine rebuild deposit and promised deliverable. I still want to believe Gary will do an amazing job. Yes, he is hard to get a hold of and yes he can fall behind schedule, at the same time I've also been working to find parts and these babies are really hard to get your hands on.

Gary told me three to six months in January 2019 - it will be 5 months in a couple weeks.

I've talked to him about once a month. In fact, he called me today. I'll have to call back as I was too busy to answer.

He is definitely not fast and eventually everyone losses patience, but historically he's delivered. This kind of bad press is recent. Guessing pure bad timing.

[[email protected]]

Yes, i own a 40 ford in wasilla, dan morrison I have talked to you at a couple car shows. Give me a call anytime, 244 6199

[[email protected]]

Yes, I called HH flatheads in Ca an they quoted me 30 to 45 days and Gary at flathead city quoted me 30 days. He is closer to Alaska and had a shorter delivery time so I went with him. He still won't return my calls or texts.

[Red98]

I paid Gary $4000 in October 2018 with the promise the engine would be ready early 2019. In Jan 2018 he requested additional $2250 which I gave. He quit returning my calls in April, claiming he texted answer. At the time I had no cell, since got one just for him.

May 13 just two weeks back, I drove the 250 miles to Grants Pass and he showed me 'my' block saying 3 engines were ahead of me. But then there was another name on the tag. No employees present, supposedly on vacation. Various excuses given. He does nice work, when it happens. I'd rather pay him the last $5000 I own him than write it off.

[53F250]

Was that this year or last?

[Alaska Jim]

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Yes Dan, I remember you. I have not been to any car functions since last june. I hap a hip replacement in early july last year, and it took me a while to recuperate. I wish you would have been able to get hold of me before , on this eng. thing. . I live half way between Palmer, and Wasilla, off the Palmer-Wasilla Hwy. call me anytime 907- 440-7786 . I am not much good for working on stuff anymore because of my bad back, but I will help with any info, and/ or advise. My brother is a Machinist, and he just retired about a month ago, and is very familiar with flatheads.. I hope you get this straightened out, or at least get your money back. I would try again to get the credit card company involved. you paid for goods and services you never received. you should be able to get a refund/ credit to your card.--- Jim. I think you could have had an engine built for you here in Anchorage for what you have already laid out. the shop where my brother used to work is still open, but with out him I do not know for sure how much experience some of the younger guys have on flatheads. let me know when you get this resolved, and maybe I can help you find a reputable shop here in Alaska. good machine shops are hard to find anymore, and a good machinist is even harder to find. ---- JIm

[Ziggster]

We had similar experiences with "vendors" on another forum that I used to frequent. Some were honest and were just overcome by events, others however were true scammers. It got to a point where the forum owner permitted a thread to be created where members could post their experience with the latter of the two to ensure community members were aware of who to avoid. I hope in this case, this vendor is just overwhelmed. Myself, I'm still waiting for my flathead which was dropped off last August. I'm in no particular hurry, and have not paid a penny, and have the luxury of dropping by anytime I wish. I trust him based on experiences of people I know and trust, but I see engines come and go, while mine patiently waits, but work is progressing.

[texas webb]

Originally Posted by Red98

I paid Gary $4000 in October 2018 with the promise the engine would be ready early 2019. In Jan 2018 he requested additional $2250 which I gave. He quit returning my calls in April, claiming he texted answer. At the time I had no cell, since got one just for him.

May 13 just two weeks back, I drove the 250 miles to Grants Pass and he showed me 'my' block saying 3 engines were ahead of me. But then there was another name on the tag. No employees present, supposedly on vacation. Various excuses given. He does nice work, when it happens. I'd rather pay him the last $5000 I own him than write it off.

Does that come to $11250.Or is my math off?Gotta be one helluva flathead.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Red98

I'd rather pay him the last $5000 I own him than write it off.

Geez, I would not. I would want my money back. I am very patience to these flathead projects. It is frustrating to wait. Granted a month is nothing, but being jerked around doesn't help. Just answer the phone and say it'll be a few more months, sorry. What would you like to do...


I would suspect that you have a narrow summer fun driving season in Alaska. I hope it all works out for you!


.

[deuce_roadster]

Not one post from someone who had an engine built by this guy and it was delivered, who was satisfied. A couple say to give him more time but what sounds like phony excuses makes me think he could file for bankruptcy and several people would be out their engines, parts and a lot of money. Sounds like a real shaky operation.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Not one post from someone who had an engine built by this guy and it was delivered, who was satisfied. A couple say to give him more time but what sounds like phony excuses makes me think he could file for bankruptcy and several people would be out their engines, parts and a lot of money. Sounds like a real shaky operation.

Agree 100%. Get your money and parts back ASAP.

[TJ]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Not one post from someone who had an engine built by this guy and it was delivered, who was satisfied. A couple say to give him more time but what sounds like phony excuses makes me think he could file for bankruptcy and several people would be out their engines, parts and a lot of money. Sounds like a real shaky operation.

X2. I still say contact the local police or sheriff's office and then the consumer affairs department in the Josephine County District Attorney's office. Keep all your records of trying to get your money back. Your phone bills will be a record of your attempts to contact. Your credit card company will want to see your documentation. There has to be someone closer to you that can do the job.

[53F250]

When we spoke yesterday I was told my engine would be complete by end of month. I plan to pay in person on completion and drive away with the engine crated up and ready to drop at shipper. Flights are relatively cheap these days in the lower 48. I’ll keep you posted as to the reality of the timing and delivery/pickup.

Please keep sharing your experiences

Oh and another thing I’ve noticed. He seems to remember the small details we’ve discussed down to how I plan to use the engine. I don’t get the feeling he’s not paying attention. I’ll know more end of month.

[Tinker]

you get that in writing

[[email protected]]

Update, my credit card company arranged a 3 way call this morning between gary, me and them. He had sent them a letter stating that my motor was done and he was waiting for me to pick it up. Later in the conversation I asked if I could have it picked up today. He then said there were a few more things to do before its "completely" done. He lied about several other things and To shorten the story, my card company called me back and said my card will be credited because gary lied to the card company about it being ready and they had no confidence in his story after listening to him on the phone. I'll keep you guys posted because I don't think it's over.
Be carefull with this guy he is slippery.

[J Franklin]

After the card is credited back to you I would pick the engine up and only pay him for work actually performed at a reasonable rate. you may need to take some tools to inspect what he has done before cutting him a check. Did he say at all why or how things went south?

[uncle buck]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

After the card is credited back to you I would pick the engine up and only pay him for work actually performed at a reasonable rate. you may need to take some tools to inspect what he has done before cutting him a check. Did he say at all why or how things went south?

not me... this proven liar will never finish the engine and the odds of him accepting a check are about zero

[chap52]

It doesn't sound like you are going to let this slip under the rug. If he is a good guy, overwhelmed or pregnant it doesn't matter. He lied! Go get your stuff. The Grants Pass PD will accompany you to pick it up so there is no problems.
Also, I believe Alaska Airlines flies into Medford Oregon, just a short drive to Grants Pass. Chap

[TJ]

Originally Posted by chap52

It doesn't sound like you are going to let this slip under the rug. If he is a good guy, overwhelmed or pregnant it doesn't matter. He lied! Go get your stuff. The Grants Pass PD will accompany you to pick it up so there is no problems.
Also, I believe Alaska Airlines flies into Medford Oregon, just a short drive to Grants Pass. Chap

Medford to GP is only 25-30 minutes. If the suspect is in the city limits he should contact Grants Pass PD. if the guy lives in the county it would be Josephine County Sheriff's Office.

[j32]

Hi , I had Gary supply me with a 8BA merc block , crank , pistons, rings, bearings and do all the machine work back in 2012, and I would do all the assembly in my shop. He was always there to answer any questions I had , might have taken a call or two to get in touch with him but would take the time to talk with me. It did take a few months longer than the original agreement, but I was not in a big rush. I needed some accessory parts like a generator, crank pulley, road draft tubes and things like that, he shipped them to me at no charge. When I received the engine I looked it over and his machine work was top notch, he squared up the block , bored and honed it , all the usual things. I did notice something didn't look quite right on the valve seats, some were cut deeper than others and some barely at all, less than a 32nd, so I called many times to talk to him but he didn't answer so I left messages but he never returned any of the calls , this was disappointing so I took the block to a local shop and they had to replace a number of seats. In general, when you have to go outside your area to find quality work, it can be risky because you can't stop in to see how it is going. In my case I needed a block and he could provide everything I needed. For me, the reward was worth the risk. You never know, sometimes there is a change in circumstance such as health issues, personal issues, etc. that can extend the time frame promised that may not be obvious to the customers. When I worked with him, he was by himself, no employees. To the OP, hang in there, hope everything works out for you.

[Red98]

I had a friend pop in on Gary and apparently there is progress on my engine but holes not stuffed yet. I'm to have more info (fm observer friend, not Gary) this week. I've moved (super distracted) and am patient. So what's a guy to do otherwise - it's only been 9 months already. Those elves who sneak into the machine shop at night to build engines got tiny fingers. Takes time. I heard of one guy who waited 2 years for a famed Flathead City engine. So scoff already - I'm staying the course.

[Tinker]

Hey if you are good with it and the motor comes out great, all is good.

I don't know what H&H turn around is or cost. Never any complains ever made I've read on anything from deliver to engine.

Local rebuilder, not yours. Think I waited 6 months for my 37 block on a local rebuild. I know it might have been back shelfed a few times, but "tommy" (the guy that did the rebuilt for the company) was a great rebuilder. .60 over rebuild. Basic. The shop and Tommy was always nice about letting me come around and see what they were working on years later (we did bring other business too). Mind you I never intruded if they were milling etc.

Walt was another here that did some great rebuilds on budget and time. Been a while since he posted and not sure how he's doing. Solid dude.


Stay the course as you decided, free will, it's for you to decide. Report back. Always good to hear.


Maybe I missed it but what are you doing to the motor? Basic rebuild? Blown motor? Makes a difference and maybe I missed it previously.




.

[Red98]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Maybe I missed it but what are you doing to the motor? Basic rebuild? Blown motor? Makes a difference and maybe I missed it previously.

I'm doing nothing, my Merc has a sick Ford FH. Had it 3yrs and yet to drive it. I'm 82 and my clock is ticking.

From FC I'm buying a 284 cu Merc FH overstroke overbore high compression w/ Holley bbl electronic spark w/one wire chrome alternator. Y? cuz Trump sed I cud.

[Tony, NY]

Recent discussion about FC. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...highlight=city

[Carl]

Originally Posted by rockfla

First, I would call the Grants Pass police department and file a charge against him OR at least talk to a detective to see what he suggest. I got scammed years ago on a Pines Winterfront grill. ME and another fellow ended up calling the local sheriff and his investigator could not "officially" charge him (because of the value...$600) BUT through a couple visits and "implied" actions (it took about a month or so) he got two money orders from him for almost all our money back!!!! IF you can get a few others who have suffer the same fate, that helps!!!! PLUS...that much value across state lines "Could" constitute "Federal" charges and interest from larger authority!!!

Gary Howard...hmm..where have I heard this name before?

[Tinker]

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Originally Posted by Red98

I'm doing nothing, my Merc has a sick Ford FH. Had it 3yrs and yet to drive it. I'm 82 and my clock is ticking.

From FC I'm buying a 284 cu Merc FH overstroke overbore high compression w/ Holley bbl electronic spark w/one wire chrome alternator. Y? cuz Trump sed I cud.

Hell, nobody needs to tell you what to do. I don't now this company or their work and people personally, so I won't and didn't bash them. My previous responses was just to a concerned persons post on timelines. I added my experience. Not once did I say don't use them.


Sounds like a good plan. Hope all works out for you.


.

[paul2748]

Contact the Secretary of States office, Fraud division. I did this when a Oregon vendor sent the wrong parts and wouldn't refund my money or send me a shipping ticket for a return. The SOS's office got my money back.

[53F250]

Anybody get an engine yet?

Mine should be done soon.

[Newc]

Aug 5 '19 Local Early V8 Club members have given up on this guy, and their monies. One member is supposed to have rescued his project from the shop. No other developments with V8 Club guys. Newc

[safeguy150]

I too, have fallen victim to this guy to the tune of just over $7000. I have tried all sorts of Government agencies, BBB, DOJ and Atty General. Everyone seems to think that this is a civil matter between customer and provider. The DOJ got some movement but as all of you know this guy is full of S**t and probably never deliver. My question is, there was one person listed in the BBB complaint section that resolved his issue with Flathead City. Does anyone here happen to know who this person is? If so I would like to talk to him and find out what he did. I have hired an Attorney in Grants Pass OR. and am about ready to spend all it takes to get this guy either locked up or in a legal bind. The problem now is I would never trust a motor that this guy delivers, if anyone knows a person who was successful in beating this crook please let me know

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by safeguy150

I have hired an Attorney in Grants Pass OR. and am about ready to spend all it takes to get this guy either locked up or in a legal bind.

Good for you!! I wish you the best of luck. It seems like he actually was delivering a product at one time. He probably has spent all the money he honestly earned and scammed people out of.

[51504bat]

Don't know all the facts but on initial review sounds like substance abuse. JMO

[TJ]

If enough people complain they can show a pattern of theft. Some of these agencies are just plain lazy and shove this stuff off as a civil matter. If Oregon has a Bureau of Automotive Repair they can initiate a criminal complaint based on the complaints from those who have been screwed by this guy. Again it has to show a pattern. In our town just recently the state BAR did a complaint on the local Midas Muffler store. They were scamming people on repairs and they got hauled into court. They paid a hefty fine and had to make a lot of restitution to those that complained.

[safeguy150]

You're correct about enough people, the problem is that the complaints are public record but the the name of the person complaining is not. That is what I am trying to find out, when you get stung for a large sum of money all you can think about is how to get it back, and I am sure that is what everyone else is doing also.

I am sincerely grateful for all of the comments and suggestions, thank you


If anyone is interested in joining together we can figure some way of contacting each other, not sure if you are allowed to post your email on this site

[Tinker]

You can post your email but I would not on a thread of this sort ...maybe. Maybe private message a few that have shared bad experiences and then if they respond to you could trade emails or private info. My suggestion anyway.



.

[daveymc29]

"Elder Financial Abuse will also get peoples attention. Even Chase bank evidently didn't want to fight me on that and refunded some fraud that was over the 60 day period, they say. I say not as I tried to report it before the 60 days was up and since their computers were down nothing they could do? Well the finally did after our DA went with the Elder Financial Abuse and other charges.

[chap52]

Wrong is wrong. No matter how nice a person may have been in the past. When they choose to rip people off they need to become a "defendant". Life's circumstances may cause us to make poor decisions, but all decisions have consequences.
I worked as a Prison Chaplain for over 30 years and have heard all kinds of "rationalizations" and "justifications". But they are still choices that impacted others and need to be corrected before a person can move on with life.
In other words, you can't be a jerk all your life because your grandma kicked your cat sixty years ago. Accountability for choices... Chap

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by chap52

Wrong is wrong. No matter how nice a person may have been in the pas.t When they choose to rip people off they need to become a "defendant". Life's circumstances may cause us to make poor decisions, but all decisions have consequences.
I worked as a Prison Chaplain for over 30 years and have heard all kinds of "rationalizations" and "justifications". But they are still choices that impacted others and need to be corrected before a person can move on with life.
In other words, you can't be a jerk all your life because your grandma kicked your cat sixty years ago. Accountability for choices... Chap

I agree totally - especially in this country where you have the freedom to make a LOT of choices (good or bad).

The ole' 'Do Unto Others' rule is so simple, but so many people find every way to not follow it . . . as they're always the exception!

[deuce5wndw]

Originally Posted by chap52

Wrong is wrong. No matter how nice a person may have been in the pas.t When they choose to rip people off they need to become a "defendant". Life's circumstances may cause us to make poor decisions, but all decisions have consequences.
I worked as a Prison Chaplain for over 30 years and have heard all kinds of "rationalizations" and "justifications". But they are still choices that impacted others and need to be corrected before a person can move on with life.
In other words, you can't be a jerk all your life because your grandma kicked your cat sixty years ago. Accountability for choices... Chap

I agree! Lot's of common sense in this post! One of our problems is it's always someone else's fault!

[qmdv]

I am an hour south of Medford, OR. So that puts me about an 1.5 hrs south of Grants Pass. I have a pickup. If any of you guys have to fly to Medford to get this settled, I would do what I could to help you out. I am in town most of the time. You can PM me

[fottyjs]

This guy should be in jail!!!!!

[fottyjs]

This guy should be in jail!!!

[qmdv]

Originally Posted by fottyjs

This guy should be in jail!!!

He may be along in years and suffering from what sometimes goes with that.

[frnkeore]

I'm 20 miles from Flathead City but, I've never been there.

I was talking to a guy, yesterday that has a small speed shop and deals about 50% in FH's. He sold FC about 5 engines, this year and I brought up these issues with him.

He seemed surprised to hear it and didn't offer any excuses for the guy. Next time I'm in GP, I'll stop by, look around the shop and see if I can start a conversation with him and report back. That may take up to 2 weeks though as I don't go to GP often. I won't bring up anything about this thread but, will try to get a since of what kind of guy he is and the health of his business.

Frank

[chap52]

If he had my engine, or especially my cash my wife would visit him... LOL Chap

[FlatheadFrankie]

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I like others in this post have dealt with Flathead City. My wait has been over 4 1/2 years. Gary has been paid in full. Just as we discussed on the phone. The payment was 1/2 in beginning to start process. The remaining was due shortly prior the shipping completed engine. The final was recently told to me is a shipping charge. Ok fine. Through the process I have also have had the discussed. No return calls, emails, voicemails and texts. Initially, I didn't want to be that guy always calling wanting a status. So in the beginning was promised about 3 months there was a backlog which I understood. I gave benefit of the doubt gave he a 6 month window. Called said was close to done block was machined and parts were on order needed about a month and he would call. So it begins no call, I call leave voicemail and about a month goes by. The reasons start extreme high temperatures short work days, wife passed in a horrible car accident, then the bad California fires, the smoke was traveling to Grants Pass couldn't work, threats of losing his livestock, then the harsh winters came couldn't get to shop. Then his mother passed which seems to be twice from a prior post. Then he was down under Australia building his new flathead cylinder heads. Then it was a few more months short handed. Then his great grand child passed away on the east coast, last I understand now has had heart surgery getting better. No problem, I get it we have all been subject to hard times some more then others. All I've asked numberous times is communicate. Have discussed many times you give someone thousands of dollars and vintage parts and never call with a status. Even with patience of a Saint people worry just watch the nightly news. I feel for all here and others that have had dealings with Flathead City or are still dealing. I'd really like to see a post with something positive like everyone is getting their engines and or money back. Stop with reasons why can't and promises you can't keep. Wishing you all the Best

[50fordcoupeman]

Maybe you should all descend on his place at once and make a raid to get your engines back...........call 911 just before you get there!!

[tubman]

Originally Posted by frnkeore

I'm 20 miles from Flathead City but, I've never been there.

I was talking to a guy, yesterday that has a small speed shop and deals about 50% in FH's. He sold FC about 5 engines, this year and I brought up these issues with him.

He seemed surprised to hear it and didn't offer any excuses for the guy. Next time I'm in GP, I'll stop by, look around the shop and see if I can start a conversation with him and report back. That may take up to 2 weeks though as I don't go to GP often. I won't bring up anything about this thread but, will try to get a since of what kind of guy he is and the health of his business.

Frank

Frank,

Did you ever get a chance to drop by and see him? 20 miles ain't much. If I was that close, I'd stop in, just out of idle curiosity

[Paul Bennett]

I've monitored the progress on my engine with regular visits and am quite pleased. I really wish those who are not involved in a business relationship with Gary would butt out with their stupid comments.

[tubman]

Sorry, "Knowledge is Power"!

[leon bee]

^^Indeed. And a part of why these forums are so valuable.

[Tinker]

In general there can be a mob mentality here. But really there a few threads on this. besides the fact you posted. We need good builders so I won't make judgement without really knowing. 20 miles is nothing. 4 yrs for a flathead build is crazy.




.

[frnkeore]

My update:
I did go to GP on, Fri the 16th, to go to the fair but, I found that he is closed on Fri - Sun so, I couldn't stop by.

I will still stop in, when I'm able to get there on a Mon - Thur.

When looking for his address, I noticed that he does not give his address. I had to do a search for it and I found it in a Better Business Bureau report. If anyone ever read this report, they would NEVER do business with this guy!!!

https://www.bbb.org/us/or/grants-pas...725/complaints

Frank

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Paul Bennett

I've monitored the progress on my engine with regular visits and am quite pleased. I really wish those who are not involved in a business relationship with Gary would butt out with their stupid comments.

Shill?

[deuce_roadster]

Good point tubman, or maybe "Paul Bennett" is this Gary dude.

[cas3]

after reading some of the BBB report, i'd say he must be quite wealthy from taking deposits and not building motors ! try looking for him at some of the finer restaurants in the area

[frnkeore]

The danger for those that have sent him money, is that he is in so much debt to them, that he will NEVER be able to full fill his obligations and still have living expenses, for himself.

The thing to do, is for them to get together and get a lawyer, then file for relief, that would put him in Bankruptcy and then they can get, at least some of their money and maybe some of their parts back.

With the amount of debt that he has, to them, I can't see any other way. Sad but, true

[qmdv]

I was a plumbing contractor for almost 50 years. One time a customer gave me a pretty good deposit on a sizable job cus he wanted some expense in the year previous to when the job was to be done. Guess what, I spent the money. I dreaded going to the job when we did it cus I knew I was not getting much more money for it. It was not a financial problem cus I had plenty of other work going on. I cannot imagine what it would be like if all my customers paid in advance. After that I was very hesitant to get paid in advance.

I wonder if what he is doing is turning into a Ponzi Scheme. He needs my deposit to finish a job that he has been paid for.

[Tinker]

That practice is called stealing from Peter to pay Paul. Bernie Madoff made a living from it... well sorta. Madoff... hmmm it's in the name.


.

[cas3]

good one tinker !

[Tinker]

Wish I could say the same for the victims.

[Bored&Stroked]

Sad situation for sure . . .

[Bob/Pa]

Try the Attorney General's office in Oregon, I did in Pa on a rip off and they went after them real quick and got my money back to the bank. The CC co should immediately put a hold on his account if they don't I would go after them until they did. Good Luck

[Carl]

Anyone recognize the name(alias), “Gary Howard” ?

[TomT/Williamsburg]

I think I bought my first Pertronix conversion free m a guy out in the Midwest called Gary Howard. He sold stock parts, upgrades like the Pertronix, and good used parts. If memory serves me it was Nebraska,Oklahoma - even had a website. A shame if he he is the same guy and has fallen to this level .....

[Tim Ayers]

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Man, the name Gary Howard does sound real familiar.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tinker

That practice is called stealing from Peter to pay Paul. Bernie Madoff made a living from it... well sorta. Madoff... hmmm it's in the name.
.

Man, after reading that BBB report, this slime needs to be taking his daily showers right there next to ol' Bernie Madoff, with "Bubba" hanging-around to "ass-ist" frequently. DD

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tinker

That practice is called stealing from Peter to pay Paul. Bernie Madoff made a living from it... well sorta. Madoff... hmmm it's in the name.
.

Double entry!

[A bones]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Good point tubman, or maybe "Paul Bennett" is this Gary dude.

Nah Not possible. Probably getting satisfied because he lives close. Would not make a good G. Howard.

My thoughts align with The Ponzi scheme. Unfortunately I have encountered more than my share of sleazebag operators, ( Not aiming at any particular market ) during the course of my days on the streets.

[Fredb_]

I had an 81A rebuilt at Flathead City about 4 years ago. I delivered the block and parts in person and was given a tour of their shop. There were three "silver haired" guys including Gary working that day and there were a lot of engine projects in various states throughout the shop. Everything looked organized, clean and professional. They had some high end "hot rod" flatheads as well as stock builds in process. He said there were about 30 engines ahead of mine, but because I had 95% of my parts they should be able to get it squeezed in sooner. Mine was completed in 3-4 weeks I think. Ilive about 3 hours drive from Grants Pass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP1kLcFHvTw&t=4s

[53F250]

Hate to have to say it, but I'm finally resolved to the fact that I'm going to have to take legal actions and file consumer complaints to help others avoid the same experience.

[tubman]

I don't understand the "Hate to have to say it" part. But I looks like it's about time.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by 53F250

Hate to have to say it, but I'm finally resolved to the fact that I'm going to have to take legal actions and file consumer complaints to help others avoid the same experience.

Best of luck - you've had more patience than I would!

[V8COOPMAN]

Just one more reminder that there are one hell of a bunch of scum-wads out there slimin'-around that have only one bad habit...…BREATHING! Wishing you mucho luck!! DD

[Plant Doctor]

I waited 3 years for my engine. Many calls and more $$$ did nothing to help. Now I am going through this engine again as it fouls plugs on 2 cylinders and I am also changing the cam. I do not race this engine and the idle is poor driving in a parade or slowly and I am on the clutch all the time as idle is high to keep engine running smooth as possible. I would not recommend Flathead City to anyone wanting timely, economical and quality work done!

[Tim Ayers]

A couple of these guys are now on Instagram. Problem is bad news doesn't trail them around like a web forum. I hope they aren't suckering new people with this new medium.

[tubman]

That's probably why they're on there.

[Paul Bennett]

Well I got a little of my money back but he still owes me my deposit - which is sizeable. I sensed bad news but people said he did great work and he had a great web site. I ignored my intuition, in 80 years it's the first tie I've been taken for a ride. A big ride when one's sole income is SocSecurity.

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Paul - glad you got some of it back . . . sad to see you taken to the cleaners like a lot of other folks (dealing with this guy). I wish you luck on getting an engine done - if I can help you, drop me a PM. I just hate to see somebody like you get screwed and end up with nothing but a hole where you money was poured into . . .

[19Fordy]

Obviously, Mr. Howard is a modern day horse thief.

He's lucky we aren't living in the 1800's with the justice system of the wild west.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Obviously, Mr. Howard is a modern day horse thief.

He's lucky we aren't living in the 1800's with the justice system of the wild west.

Yeah - he'd have a bad case of "rope burn" around his skinny little neck, or he would die from "lead poisoning" - via a Winchester.

[V8COOPMAN]

Like I've said before, he has only one bad habit...…...BREATHING! DD

[tubman]

What's really depressing is that we have two threads going about two different crooks going on simultaneously. At least people have some places to go (here and the H.A.M.B.) to check these jerks out. I know that before I'd spend even a moderate amount of money with someone with whom I had no experience, I'd do a bunch of internet searches.

[Aarongriffey]

I’m in CA. About 10 years ago I tried to buy an 8 BA engine from a guy in Minnesota that is always selling old a Ford used stuff.
After he did nothing about shipping it and I called him a few times I called the credit card company, they got us all on the phone at once.
I had a choice of gettting my money back or the seller agreeing to send the motor. I got a credit right away. End of story.
A

[53F250]

Has anyone started legal proceedings on Flathead City?

[Paul Bennett]

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I sent an email to presidents of Oregon V8 clubs attempting to learn about legal actions but received no replies. Gary Howard owes me $4000. I was able to get $2250 returned from VISA uncontested by Howard. Shame as he could have provided engines just as easy as not. On my visits to Grants Pass, he did have engines in various states of build and apparently did provide a few people with engines, but not many. And not me.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by tubman

What's really depressing is that we have two threads going about two different crooks going on simultaneously. At least people have some places to go (here and the H.A.M.B.) to check these jerks out. I know that before I'd spend even a moderate amount of money with someone with whom I had no experience, I'd do a bunch of internet searches.

True.

[53F250]

So how do we get him shut down for good - or take possession of what in the shop?

[paul2748]

I wrote to the Oregon Attorney General about another vendor in Oregon that screwed me. He had his office visit the vendor and I got my money back. Contact that office, fraud division.

[frnkeore]

I have a little bit of a update on this. I was in GP last Sunday, talking to a guy that does automotive machine work. He knows Gary and has delt with him.

He said that it's been long know, in the GP area of his dishonesty and that he is no longer in business. From what I've read here, I suggested that maybe he took in peoples parts to work on and then sell them off. He did not disagree with me!

He doesn't know where Gary is but, knew that he had legal issues. So, I would suggest that people contact the State of Oregon and see if anyone can provide his lawyers name. You might even try a records search at the Josephine County Court, to see if you can find his attorney/s. But, I'm afraid that they may want to know where he is at, too!!

This guy is the second one that is in the automotive business that knew him, Gary bought stuff from both and neither had anything good to say about him.

I do hope that guys can find him but, I also fear he may monitor this forum and a private detective may be the only option.

[JSeery]

I would think if you have wanted too long on these type of issues it would be difficult to recover much. With numerous people out fairly large sums of money Gary most likely couldn't come up with it if he wanted to (which I doubt he would consider if he did have the money!).

[cas3]

and, just because you win a judgement in court, that doesnt necessarily mean you get your money. to collect, YOU have to hire the sheriff to go to the bank. then, no funds=no check for you.

[philipswanson]

Don't know about Oregon law but in CA, the sheriff will not go to the bank with you. You have to sue him again for not paying up. If he has a house, you can get a lien against it if he ever sells it. Other than that, you are probably out the money.

[deuce_roadster]

And unless you are a lawyer yourself, all this will cost you even more money.

[qmdv]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

And unless you are a lawyer yourself, all this will cost you even more money.

Oregon Small Claims court. 10,000 max and the statute of limitations is 6 years. No attorneys in small claims court. Just you and mr flathead builder.

California is the same but a bit different. Last time I did it was about 25 years ago. Other guy did not show up. I got a judgement against the guy. Recorded my judgment and filed liens. About 8 years later he tried to borrow against a motel he had in the Bay Area and my lien surfaced. Got judgment plus interest sent to me by the title company. In my case I did not have to leave town cus this is where we entered into the contract. Boy it felt so good to be victorious. Best part is they were pissed

[1952henry]

I was in the Crater Lake regional club when I lived in sw Oregon. Gary lived up the road from a member. He had a nice shop and assembled engines. Looked legit. Later this same member gave him engines parts etc. Many $$$ worth. Fellow needed something and got the full bill despite earlier generosity.
As far as a judgement, for a few $ you can have a lien filled with court clerk. That doesn't go away. If there is an estate, you are listed as a creditor. That was my experience as a landlord with a deadbeat renter. Renter declared bankruptcy and I got invited to participate in hearing. I sued a fellow for some property in small claims. Got a judgement, which was ignored. Filed a lien, and got satisfaction in a few days.

[qmdv]

Originally Posted by 1952henry

I was in the Crater Lake regional club when I lived in sw Oregon. Gary lived up the road from a member. He had a nice shop and assembled engines. Looked legit. Later this same member gave him engines parts etc. Many $$$ worth. Fellow needed something and got the full bill despite earlier generosity.
As far as a judgement, for a few $ you can have a lien filled with court clerk. That doesn't go away. If there is an estate, you are listed as a creditor. That was my experience as a landlord with a deadbeat renter. Renter declared bankruptcy and I got invited to participate in hearing. I sued a fellow for some property in small claims. Got a judgement, which was ignored. Filed a lien, and got satisfaction in a few days.

I doubt in this case (not honoring a contract) a lien would be enforceable without a judgment. If it were then I could file a lien against someone I do not even know. Gary may be a real jerk and dishonest as all get out but he is still guaranteed the opportunity to face his accuser and give his side of the story. My guess he would not show up and then you get that judgment. Then you file the lien. A paralegal can be a big help here.

[1952henry]

To be clear, in both cases I had a judgement. I hope you didn't infer that I didn't have judgements. I don't think you can randomly file liens anywhere.

[cas3]

in my life i have had 3 wins in court. each time you have to renew the judgement or a lien every seven years, or its gone. 1st no good bum i sent the sheriff twice, got nothing and figured out that bum would never amount to nothing in his life, so i wisely quit. 2nd bum i also sent the sheriff a couple times and got nothing, but finally about 5 years later he wanted a home loan, not available until i was paid. he offered me half what he owed, and at the wise advice of my lawyer "somethin is better than nothin" so i took it. bum #3 never paid a dime, and i have let it run out... dont care to worry about it. hopefully i have gotten smarter and there will be no #4. i have to add for fun, in all 3 cases the judge said "i find that mr swanson is a reliable witness, and mr --- is not. while you cant take that to the bank, i feel good with the memory

[tubman]

Originally Posted by cas3

in my life i have had 3 wins in court. each time you have to renew the judgement or a lien every seven years, or its gone. 1st no good bum i sent the sheriff twice, got nothing and figured out that bum would never amount to nothing in his life, so i wisely quit. 2nd bum i also sent the sheriff a couple times and got nothing, but finally about 5 years later he wanted a home loan, not available until i was paid. he offered me half what he owed, and at the wise advice of my lawyer "somethin is better than nothin" so i took it. bum #3 never paid a dime, and i have let it run out... dont care to worry about it. hopefully i have gotten smarter and there will be no #4. i have to add for fun, in all 3 cases the judge said "i find that mr swanson is a reliable witness, and mr --- is not. while you cant take that to the bank, i feel good with the memory

"cas3" - This corresponds to my experiences 100%. It seems that the courts don't want to make a decision, but would rather "compromise" and make everyone unhappy. No wonder there are so many "Lawyer Jokes".

[TJ]

Originally Posted by tubman

"cas3" - This corresponds to my experiences 100%. It seems that the courts don't want to make a decision, but would rather "compromise" and make everyone unhappy. No wonder there are so many "Lawyer Jokes".

If you want a good laugh go to "You Tube" and listen to a song by Charlie Sizemore titled "No Lawyers in Heaven".

[Paul Bennett]

I was just notified by Whitepages that GARY HOWARD and his relatives HAVE MOVED!
Apparently he needed to sell his house. Once upon a time I engaged Whitepages for phone numbers and home address. Yes I'm out $4000 but sleep better and put that page of my life behind me. If his conscience bothers him and he returns my deposit, I will accept it. But I won't spend any more on the chase.

[deuce_roadster]

Wise of you Paul. I am reminded of this quote:

“Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”

― Confucius

[50fordcoupeman]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Wise of you Paul. I am reminded of this quote:

“Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”

― Confucius

Well said!!

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Wise of you Paul. I am reminded of this quote:

“Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”

― Confucius

Very wise words indeed!