fordomatic fluid

[Brian54]

I realize that this topic has been covered before but I need it revisited----------How many quarts does a 1954 Fordomatic trans take with convertor and also without ? Thanks for any input .

[Merc Cruzer]

This should answer the question:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...mission+gasket

51-54 = 9 to 9 3/4 qts
55 - 10 1/4 qts
55 Turbo Drive = 10 qts.

When I changed my fluid on my 53' Mer-O-Matic I got approx 2 cups out of the converter. The car sat over night, so if you are doing it hot you might get more. I do recommend, doing it cold, as it is very messy and the hot fluid is not fun to deal with, but that is your choice.

[Daves55Sedan]

The '56 Ford-o-matic shop manual says 5 quarts. But I found another source that says 19 pints. That is equivalent to about 4-3/4 quarts, right? Use Mercon fluid).
I am more comfortable with 4-3/4 quarts, since this raises the level of fluid right at the center between the marks on the dipstick. Keeping the fluid level here, I have never had any fluid blowing out or blowing seals and the transmission operates properly.
Check fluid level by running engine at idle with gear select level in neutral and fill to in-between the markings on the dipstick.
If you have completely drained fluid and are filling it from dry, idle the engine with foot on the brake and run through all gears first P-R-N-D-L, then shift back into neutral to check fluid level at the dipstick.

[Merc Cruzer]

56 Ford Owner's Manual

[GLAmes]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

The '56 Ford-o-matic shop manual says 5 quarts. But I found another source that says 19 pints. That is equivalent to about 4-3/4 quarts, right? Use Mercon fluid).

19 pints is 9 1/2 qts.

For the OP, I found Type A at NAPA. That is the flavor of ATF called for in the service manual. I started out with a full case. Because I also used some in the power steering and some was lost I can't tell you how many qts it took to fill my transmission. I kept adding a bit at a time after the initial 8 qts until it was at the proper level.

[Merc Cruzer]

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Originally Posted by GLAmes

19 pints is 9 1/2 qts.

For the OP, I found Type A at NAPA. That is the flavor of ATF called for in the service manual. I started out with a full case. Because I also used some in the power steering and some was lost I can't tell you how many qts it took to fill my transmission. I kept adding a bit at a time after the initial 8 qts until it was at the proper level.

I had an issue at O'Reillys, when I bought Type F. It was all out dated. I had to go to NAPA (two stores) to get two cases (6 each).

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...+fluid&page=10

Post #182

[GLAmes]

How does transmission fluid get out dated?

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by GLAmes

How does transmission fluid get out dated?

https://go4trans.com/technical-trans...mission-fluid/

https://www.machinerylubrication.com...t-storage-life

[GLAmes]

That's an interesting read considering other sources say oils and fluids have no expiration. And how does that jive with my wife's last minivan, a Toyota, her current mini van, a Chrysler both of which have no fill port (dipstick) and no manufacture's service interval? My 2019 Ram also doesn't have a service requirement for the transmission fluid. It does not have a dipstick either, thus no fill port.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by GLAmes

That's an interesting read considering other sources say oils and fluids have no expiration. And how does that jive with my wife's last minivan, a Toyota, her current mini van, a Chrysler both of which have no fill port (dipstick) and no manufacture's service interval? My 2019 Ram also doesn't have a service requirement for the transmission fluid. It does not have a dipstick either, thus no fill port.

Sounds like the manufactures version of planed obsolescence.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by GLAmes

That's an interesting read considering other sources say oils and fluids have no expiration.

Oil and hydraulic fluid becomes contaminated by metal wear of moving parts and in the case of oil, un-burned fuel and carbon adds to the contamination.

Originally Posted by GLAmes

my wife's last minivan, a Toyota, her current mini van, a Chrysler both of which have no fill port (dipstick) and no manufacture's service interval? My 2019 Ram also doesn't have a service requirement for the transmission fluid. It does not have a dipstick either, thus no fill port.

It is no surprise that some transmissions might not have a dipstick or fill port. They require you to take the car to a shop so they can charge you $1000 to vacuum out the fluid and refill it.
The modern hydraulic fluids for use with automatic transmissions have been changing a lot and have different characteristics to fulfill the mfr's specifications of the trans mfr. They may not want you to buy the wrong fluid at the auto parts store which might not perform to the requirements of your transmission.
I am sure that your owners manual does include a variety of scheduled services for different components of your vehicle which they recommend be performed at the dealer for a premium $$$.
My 2007 Ford F150 pickup with AOD does have both a dipstick and fill port and does tell the exact type of transmission fluid to use (Mercon V).
Interestingly enough, when the truck had been run 50K miles, I started having trouble with the transmission. I took it to the shop, thinking it was something major. All it needed was a fluid change and it was good as new.
I was astonished. I have been driving my '55 Ford Fairlane with Fordomatic daily and haven't changed the fluid (Dextron/Mercon) for 20 years and never had a problem. That's well over 200K miles.

[Daves55Sedan]

If you do find type A ATF nowadays, it is not the same blend as the original type A which used whale oil as it's lubricating property. Yes you can sometimes find it in farm supply stores too.
I would recommend that before buying, you compare the ingredients with the specifications of the original blend if you can find them on the internet.

[GLAmes]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Oil and hydraulic fluid becomes contaminated by metal wear of moving parts and in the case of oil, un-burned fuel and carbon adds to the contamination.

I am sure that your owners manual does include a variety of scheduled services for different components of your vehicle which they recommend be performed at the dealer for a premium $$$.
My 2007 Ford F150 pickup with AOD does have both a dipstick and fill port and does tell the exact type of transmission fluid to use (Mercon V).

I send my engine oil samples from my work truck ('97 Dodge/Cummins) to a lab for analysis every 15,000 miles. If it is not high with contaminates (wear metals, silicon, soot, fuel or water) I don't drain it. The current oil is at 34,000 miles. I also sample gear box oil, but not nearly as frequently. The owners manual for it specifies 48 months or 48,000 miles for automatic transmission drain and adjustment. Thankfully I have a manual transmission in it. It also specifies 3000 mile engine oil changes. That is a throwback to the 50s when oil was in bottles next to the gas pumps and of poor quality. Technology improved the oil but hasn't changed people's perception that it has to be drained long before it is actually unserviceable. The oil companies are happy to prolong the myth that oil "wears out" when it fact it never wears out. Contaminates are what makes oil unusable and proper filtration captures those contaminates. Using bypass filtration there are 18 wheelers that go over 300,000 miles between oil drains.

As I stated the owners manuals of the minivans or my 2019 Ram do not show any service criteria for the transmissions. Perhaps it is planned obsolescence, or perhaps the filtration and quality of current transmission fluids has made scheduled drains obsolete. I guess I'll find out because I keep vehicles until the wheels fall off. My '97 Dodge has 1.4 million on it, I customized my '67 Chev 30 years ago and still have it and I believe the computers in the Ram will fail long before the transmission does. The '67 has a turbo 350 in it that hasn't had an oil and filter change in 20 years.

[GLAmes]

Also, I apologize if I come off as contrary or argumentative. I have always questioned "why". Some things just don't make sense. How does a bottle of oil on a shelf lose it's properties? Why, in the 60 years I've been driving and turning wrenches, haven't I ever heard of oil or transmission fluid being out of date? I know why filters can go out of date so I don't buy them in bulk like I do oil. Puzzling.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by GLAmes

Also, I apologize if I come off as contrary or argumentative. I have always questioned "why". Some things just don't make sense. How does a bottle of oil on a shelf lose it's properties? Why, in the 60 years I've been driving and turning wrenches, haven't I ever heard of oil or transmission fluid being out of date? I know why filters can go out of date so I don't buy them in bulk like I do oil. Puzzling.

I have been amazed, on what I have learned, just changing the transmission fluid on my 53' Merc. This hasn't been the first time either and doubt it will be the last!

"If it doesn't make sense to you ask until it does."

[5851a]

So far I've lived through type A, F, CJ, type H,
Mercon 4, 5 ,XP. I have 5 different type of antifreeze in the garage to cover DD. Tired of all the changes and fits all don't work in fit's all. Anyway everything here living off of type F and green antifreeze.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by 5851a

So far I've lived through type A, F, CJ, type H,
Mercon 4, 5 ,XP. I have 5 different type of antifreeze in the garage to cover DD. Tired of all the changes and fits all don't work in fit's all. Anyway everything here living off of type F and green antifreeze.

Personally, I'm very carefull about types of anti-freeze to use, especially as far as mixing with the factory installed type.
My 2007 F150 says NOT to mix with other types. They may be saying that just so you'll buy their Motorcraft brand. But when I went looking at the chain auto parts store, they had both the proper type Motorcraft brand ATF and anti-freeze on the shelf, so it made my decision easy.
I'm still opposed to using type F fluid in my Fordomatic. I never heard it being recommended for Fordomatics by any transmission shop or other technical source, and heard too many complaints about hard shifting.
Yes, I hate having to use different type of fluids, but at least I have two cars that use the same and have zillions of interchangeable parts.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

56 Ford Owner's Manual

NOTE -

Mid-1956 production saw the intro of the coolant cooled V8 trans so the refill amounts should be different for an air-cooled vs coolant cooled transmission.

Note PRINT DATE (QTR) of 1956 OWNERS MANUAL.

[Gene F]

Is this the stuff you got at NAPA? It's called TYPE-FA These are the recomendations on the website. They have the TypeF of course. They do have another one that is A-Type (full synthetic) and it says it is not recomended for type F style transmissions. It's made by Lucas.

So what did they sell you?

By the way, the "buyers guide" on the NAPA website list all kinds of applications for the use of FA. It lists Fairlane 500 1957 - 1970. My car is a 1957.


*******************

NAPA Type F is a transmission fluid specifically engineered to protect and prolong the life of automatic transmissions. It is designed for use where Ford specifications M2C33-F, M2C33-G and Ford Type F fluids are recommended. Other applications include air compressors, general purpose hydraulics and power steering system.


Provides excellent resistance against clutch slippage for extended transmission life
Provides excellent resistance to fluid oxidation/breakdown at high temperatures
Approved for 1980 and earlier Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles
Approved for use in Mazda, Saab, Toyota, Volvo and other Japanese and European vehicles requiring a Type F fluid

[5851a]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Personally, I'm very carefull about types of anti-freeze to use, especially as far as mixing with the factory installed type.
My 2007 F150 says NOT to mix with other types. They may be saying that just so you'll buy their Motorcraft brand. But when I went looking at the chain auto parts store, they had both the proper type Motorcraft brand ATF and anti-freeze on the shelf, so it made my decision easy.
I'm still opposed to using type F fluid in my Fordomatic. I never heard it being recommended for Fordomatics by any transmission shop or other technical source, and heard too many complaints about hard shifting.
Yes, I hate having to use different type of fluids, but at least I have two cars that use the same and have zillions of interchangeable parts.

I just use the type F and green antifreeze in my pre 80's cars. Ford already has changed the color and content of coolant twice in my 2012 and 2005, orange, pink, gold. What did they do, hire someone from Sherwin Williams?

[GLAmes]

The type A I bought from NAPA is made by Pure Guard part #P024 Made in the USA.

[KULTULZ]

Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Transmission Fluid

Multi-vehicle transmission fluids are becoming more and more popular in the marketplace. Oil marketers design these fluids for a wide range of automatic transmission types. While they are not licensed by any specific auto manufacturer, they are designed to provide superior performance and protection. They are formulated with the latest additive technology and their performance is typically supported by extensive field testing. Most multi-vehicle transmission fluids utilize synthetic base oils.

SOURCE - https://team.valvoline.com/diy/how/s...f-your-vehicle

INSERT -

TYPE F Transmission Fluid

This fluid meets old Ford specification and is not commonly recommended for today’s transmissions. This may be the fluid of choice of older Ford classic cars, racing or hydraulic applications.

SOURCE - https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united...ses-types.html

There is no FORD SPECIFIED FA ATF. It is an aftermarket term.

Unless the fluid container displays the manufacturers license no. (FORD-GM-MOPAR) (to show blending compliance) , it is not factory approved, period.

************************************************** ***********

And the CAPT. AHAB - MOBY DICK SYNDROME has to be forgotten as whale oil was (is) not compatible with modern (1967- ) transmissions.

DESCRIPTIVE ARTICLE CONCERNING WHALE OIL USAGE -

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/725.cfm

[Gene F]

Kultulz, what EXACTLY do you use, and where do you get it?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Kultulz, what EXACTLY do you use, and where do you get it?

I personally only use MOTORCRAFT AT FLUIDS. It is readily available on AMAZON and such. I usually go to a MOTORCRAFT DISTRIBUTOR to buy.

[LOWRIDER]

Originally Posted by 5851a

I just use the type F and green antifreeze in my pre 80's cars. Ford already has changed the color and content of coolant twice in my 2012 and 2005, orange, pink, gold. What did they do, hire someone from Sherwin Williams?

My sister was a chemist at a small oil company that supplied different type lubricants to shops and manufacturers in the metro Detroit area. She received a call one time that a cutting oil they supplied didn't work like it should. When she talked to the foreman he said "this new stuff is blue and doesn't work like the old red stuff". No problem. She had a batch made up the same way and just added a dye to make it red. Guy called back and said it works great now.

[Gene F]

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My grandfather brother pull a stent driving a tanker truck. For premium they used to get up on top of the tanker with a gallon jug of red dye and a ladel before they left on the delivery. Hard to tell if there were additives in there or not. This was like a zillion years ago.

[KULTULZ]

It was most likely EXXON (ESSO) as if you used it the red dye would spit out of the bowl vents and make the top of the carb red.

And then there were the tiger hairs ...

[KULTULZ]

The oil companies are happy to prolong the myth that oil "wears out" when it fact it never wears out. Contaminates are what makes oil unusable and proper filtration captures those contaminates.

How does one renew the detergent/dispersant packages ...

Using bypass filtration there are 18 wheelers that go over 300,000 miles between oil drains.

True, but ...

They are subject to frequent oil analysis, filter changes and make-up oil keeps the detergent/dispersant packages good.

To me, it is a lot cheaper to frequent quality oil/filter changes (especially today's engines) rather that pay repair/replacement costs.

[GLAmes]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

How does one renew the detergent/dispersant packages ...



True, but ...

They are subject to frequent oil analysis, filter changes and make-up oil keeps the detergent/dispersant packages good.

To me, it is a lot cheaper to frequent quality oil/filter changes (especially today's engines) rather that pay repair/replacement costs.

My sample analysis tells me when the additive package is low. It never is, mainly because at a bit over 500,000 miles this engine burns and leaks about a qt ever 2500 miles so the makeup oil, as you stated, renews it. Filter and analysis for me is in the $50 range. I change the filter and do analysis at 15,000 mile intervals. Oil filter and new oil is about $115 and I don't have the advantage in knowing the health of my engine or if there are contaminates present. Without analysis you are more likely to encounter repair/replacement costs. Therefore it is not cheaper to just frequently change the oil.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by GLAmes

Without analysis you are more likely to encounter repair/replacement costs.

True.

Therefore it is not cheaper to just frequently change the oil.

Well, that is a matter of opinion and I don't see an IMO in your statement.

What was being described in the discussion above was HEAVY DIESEL and fleets use that method to save $$$. If an engine or two fails, it is absorbed into operating costs.

Is your vehicle gas or light diesel?

BTW - Good thought on filter change with extended drain intervals ...

[GLAmes]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Well, that is a matter of opinion and I don't see an IMO in your statement.

OK. IMO spending $50 every 15,000 miles costs less than spending $115 every 5000 to 6000 miles.

[GLAmes]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

What was being described in the discussion above was HEAVY DIESEL and fleets use that method to save $$$. If an engine or two fails, it is absorbed into operating costs.

Is your vehicle gas or light diesel?

Actually that method is used by small fleet owner/operators many of whom only have one truck. Large fleets like Swift or Wal-Mart don't do analysis. They just buy new trucks when the old ones get to 600,000 miles or so.

Mine is a medium duty diesel, 5.9 Cummins.

[rotorwrench]

Most modern motor oil has the microscopic polymer plastic added to it so that is will have more viscosity hot that it will when cold. That stuff wears out withing about 3000 miles. Comparing motor lubricants to ATF is not a good idea. Motors make combustion byproducts and transmissions don't.

Transmissions rely on clutch plates and bands to hold against torque so the fluid is made to aid in achieving that goal as well as lubricate bearing surfaces and valves. Clutch plates have evolved a lot over the years. Ford started out with bronze on steel for friction and slowly evolved to composite linings on steel. Most ATF products have friction modifiers to ease the lock up of friction surfaces and make the shift softer and less harsh. Ford Type F has no friction modifiers to speak of and makes for harder and possibly more harsh friction lock up. Ford wanted to make sure that there older designs than still used metal on metal friction lock up would not slip much. Slippage ruins these types of friction plates fairly quick. Racers like fast and hard shifts so type F is still used for that purpose as well.

[Gene F]

Rotorwrench makes a good point. If I may add... In the ATF world I always heard that the Type-F formula was more gripppy, and the new formulas were more slippery BY FAR.

I have been told that when selecting lubricants you should go in this order:
1 select a formula (when in doubt ask the MFG)
2 viscosity
3 a brand you trust
4 consider price

It seems that most people work this list backwards. I know my Dad always did! LOL LOL LOL