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Old 09-07-2011, 01:04 PM   #81
nemw001
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Thank you all for the help - many minds = many outlooks on same issue - sometimes we all develop tunnel vision and need a new perspective - again -Thanks.
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Old 09-07-2011, 01:20 PM   #82
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Default Re: 1937 No start

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Had timing cover off, so lined up timing marks on the cam / crank gears - then pulled #1 and #6 plugs to be sure that valves were closed, precautionary move, the "wider" part of distributor drive facing down and narrower one up - the "slot" was pointing at about at 11 oclock - and -==> inner rotor facing at 6 oclock and outer one at about 1 oclock<==- probably means that the distributor / rotor alignment is wrong?? Hence firing with valves open?? I then barred engine over with ditributor on until inner rotor was pointing at about 11 oclock atthe #1 tower on inner cap I had previously marked the distributor housing inside to assure rotor would be pointing to it and checked valves - #1 intake was open - it appears the cam / dist "sync" is out about 45 degrees?? Is that possible??
You must also make sure that timing mark on hub of cam (usually a line) is lined up with timing mark (also usually a line) on steel insert that is molded into the ID of the fiber gear. As someone else mentioned, the timing gear could have slipped on what's normally a pressfit on the cam hub.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:01 PM   #83
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Default Re: 1937 No start

To double check any internal timing when at TDC turn 1 full turn at that time the intake starts to open and about 6degs later the Exhaust closes.
The car did run so i doubt its in side.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:20 PM   #84
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Answer to post 76 NO, and dont waste your time pulling the heads. Here is a picture of what it should look like. If your cam is installed correctly like you said it was the system looks like this. The next picture is of the correct position of the distributor rotor. The rear rotor contact points approximately 11 o'clock and that is the number one spark plug wire. The distributor rotates counter clockwise and the front rotor then indexes to fire the #5 cylinder which is the front cylinder on the driverside, that is on the front terminal contact at about the 7 o'clock position marked 5 on the driver side cap. Looking at the distributor the the front rotor contact would be pointing down towards the 5 o'clock position. I still think you need to check the wires in the cap for the correct sequence.
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File Type: jpg 37 dist.jpg (77.9 KB, 73 views)
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:42 PM   #85
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Default Re: 1937 No start

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(Never done it myself, but could he have installed the wrong distributor caps? Early v. late? Too late to go out to the shop and try to see how they'd fit.)

Hoop, I have two 37 distributors and I noticed previously that the distributor caps were different and didnt think too much of it. are you saying that these particular distributor caps have to work with a particular rotor and that they are not interchangeable? I guess luckily i never mixed them up....thks bob
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:56 PM   #86
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Default Re: 1937 No start

"- it appears the cam / dist "sync" is out about 45 degrees??"

Maybe just a coincidence ... 45 degrees .... what's 360 degrees divided by 8 (cylinders)?

That's one whole spot off ... ?

Bob, 37forddr, early and late have two different part numbers but haven't had time to check to see if the early one will slip into the later case. The tabs fit into different slot locations ... for the time being consider I don't know what I'm talking about.

Edit for additional info:

Found some early terminal caps, the inside ones. It is possible to fit these into the later case. If so, the #1 plug wire will be in the forward top position ... 45 degrees off. The tabs are different, but if someone were not aware that there might be a difference, could make it go together.

Late terminal caps should have a part #68-12113. My early ones have no number but it should be 18-12113. I suggest looking for the part number on the inner side toward the rotor.

Would definitely cause the problems described.
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Last edited by Hoop; 09-07-2011 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:32 PM   #87
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Dick Now thats what i was looking for.If you were to look from side with rotor to you and draw a staight line the wide clot would be farthes and small end points to you.
Or wide slot at 12 oclock and rotor a 6 oclock.
Its this correct.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:54 PM   #88
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Car was starting and running then ,not starting when warm ( as a result of the coil or condensor ) After rebuild of dizy will not start at all . You should Swap out the distributor. bad or wrong rotor (37type ).or points timing .It did have a new faulty condenser put in it . ??

Car was starting and running fine - then - started to be hard to start and would start and run BUT then when warm would not start - SO I checked for fuel, air, spark and there was NO spark at all coming out of rotor / distributor - so I sent distributor out to VanPelts for overhaul - got it back and now will just pop thru carb - then I took dist. off of car and put in vice and ran aux. pwr to it and there was internmittent spark and it was orangish - so I swapped out condenser, which was new with dist. overhaul, and got nice steady bue / white spark - as you can see by my replies I am trying to keep updated as I try things out. Thanks.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:59 PM   #89
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Sure sounds to me like the original problem was a BAD condensor and now mixed parts have caused the rest of the problem. Sure would be good if you could borrow a running car dist and conduits to check things out.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:11 PM   #90
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Default Re: 1937 No start

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"Could be rotor on backwards."

Even I cannot install the rotor backwards on this distributor. PLUS, Mac Van Pelt rebuilt it. Unless "nemw" took it apart and really screwed with things ... which it doesn't sound like he did.

The best that we know is that the spark is occurring when the piston is NOT at the proper place in the stroke. There is a weak attempt to fire on partial compression.

This is the result of either a spark timing problem or a timing gear issue.

Some of us have experienced both ... others are guessing.

The guessing confuses "nemw" ... not to mention true experts like Dick having a complete brain cramp and telling us that the exhaust valve opens right after TDC of the compression stroke. (We all have busy days. I can't find my other sock this morning.)

I posted the quickest, easiest way to check for a timing gear problem. You may only have to check one cylinder. If the valves are not opening/closing correctly at the top of the exhaust/intake stroke, you've found the problem.

The other possible source of the problem is what "nemw" did with the distributor AFTER he got it from Mac. Wiring, caps, etc have been suggested.

You have to clear up one suspect area then focus on the other.

It's going to turn out to be a simple problem made complicated by "nemw's" being unfamiliar with flatheads and a plethora (my wife likes that word) of forum advice.

Now, I'm going to find my other sock.
NO a rotor cannot be installed backwards.It wont go all the way down so you couldn't reinstall back in the outer housing.Its impossible. ken ct.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:27 PM   #91
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Did Mac install new inner caps or did you use your old ones.You can tell if their the right ones by installing 1 side and leave the other side open [no caps] Look through the contacts on the inner cap should line up with the blade of the rotor when you turn the toung by hand. They will almost touch on the way around.If not you have the wrong inner plates.Just hunting all possibilities.Rotor bakealite rotor must have like steps on it not smooth like earlier ones 36 and down. ken ct.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:36 PM   #92
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Point of information, You cannot mix contact caps between early and late design The spacing and indexes are different to the point that they will not work together, The early 32-36 contact caps index pin positions between the wide portion of the contact pins and the 37-41 cap has the index pin located between the narrow side of the contact cap. So they could not be incorrectly installed.
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:17 PM   #93
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Based on Hoops last post, I just remembered that a friend of mine had once inadvertently put the later '37 inner/terminal caps in his '36 distributor and his engine ran or tried to run very poorly. It is possible that you have the reverse scenario, '36/earlier inner caps in a '37 distributor. It is now sounding a lot like something is not right with that rebuilt distributor. If you only had a known good '37 distributor that you could put on temporarily to try it out.
When this '37 finally gets fixed and runs well, we should all go and have a beer together.

Edit note: Well....based on Dick's last post my friend did the impossible....I guess
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:46 PM   #94
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Default Re: 1937 No start

dick spadaro is dead right about the caps the early & late are indexed different. but knowing what people are capable of who knows
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:46 PM   #95
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Default Re: 1937 No start

OK , i would have to agree that nothing is worse than a engine that wont run , we have all had them and 99.9% of the time its something simple.
After almost a hundred replys heres my offer.

Send me your address and i will build you a fresh 37 distributor ( with a twist), mine will use a remote coil, coil wire and come to you assembled with coil adapter, coil ,condensor and coil wire. (no charge)
All you need to do is install, run a single battery wire to the coil power lead and crank the engine using your caps and wires .
This will aleviate the distributor, coil etc that you are using now. If the engine now runs send me the unit (complete ) on the car now and i will disect, fix and return....

Fair enough ???? Can get it out to you tomorrow afternoon.........

I have got to assume that the wires after this much work are correct .
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:56 PM   #96
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Default Re: 1937 No start

I have seen several rotors that were shorted through to the shaft??? G.M.
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:02 PM   #97
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Default Re: 1937 No start

sounds like distributor is set up wrong....or something is wrong with the distributor....take Bubba up on his offer and then you'll know whether it is the distributor or not...hopefully....good luck....Mike
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:08 AM   #98
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Default Re: 1937 No start

,I am sure Mac does a great job but any thing can happen with theses old cars its just something to look at .GMs right about Rotors . Here is a picture of two Rotors the large one #@*32 to 36 held me on the road for two hours the customers 34 just would not go up a hill it just crackled and popped . .I had limited tools on board, but with the aid of finger nails as screw drivers I managed to get the Dizy of and put tape around the shaft like so. and get home it went like a train.the rest of the way ,
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Old 09-08-2011, 04:50 AM   #99
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Marc, just double check the part numbers on the inner terminal caps and eliminate that possibility ... humor me.
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:55 AM   #100
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Default Re: 1937 No start

Note If there is one bad one be on look out for more,just think 100 more pieces of junk.
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