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Old 06-28-2017, 02:33 PM   #1
Kube
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Default Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Okay, some of you guys seem to enjoy my pain so I'd thought I'd share my current project progress with you.
I wrestled this particular '40 out of the basement of a barn many years ago. While I typically complete most projects in a year or two, other things got in the way so this one has sat in the corner for most of the past nine years. I did manage to get a lot accomplished during those past years but now (finally!) I will be completing this restoration.
Some may have noticed the title of this thread, specifically the "rare". Why rare?
This is one of 111 - '40 Ford convertibles built with a factory installed Mercury engine. This one came with supporting documentation, the cowl tag, etc.
While it was quite rough when I'd acquired it, because of the extreme rarity, I simply had to have it. So, perhaps foolishly, I overlooked the monumental task before me.

My intention is to restore this car to the highest degree of quality and authenticity that I am capable of. That includes of course restoring it as the original "letter of build" clearly indicates.

My hope is to have this one ready for Dearborn, 2018.

I will make a number of separate posts this evening to bring this project "up to date".

Attached herein are photos of the vehicle upon purchase. I know, I know... "What was I thinking?"
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PB190007.JPG (122.3 KB, 894 views)
File Type: jpg project 40.JPG (145.4 KB, 871 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0437.jpg (73.0 KB, 928 views)
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
Okay, some of you guys seem to enjoy my pain so I'd thought I'd share my current project progress with you.
I wrestled this particular '40 out of the basement of a barn many years ago. While I typically complete most projects in a year or two, other things got in the way so this one has sat in the corner for most of the past nine years. I did manage to get a lot accomplished during those past years but now (finally!) I will be completing this restoration.
Some may have noticed the title of this thread, specifically the "rare". Why rare?
This is one of 111 - '40 Ford convertibles built with a factory installed Mercury engine. This one came with supporting documentation, the cowl tag, etc.
While it was quite rough when I'd acquired it, because of the extreme rarity, I simply had to have it. So, perhaps foolishly, I overlooked the monumental task before me.

My intention is to restore this car to the highest degree of quality and authenticity that I am capable of. That includes of course restoring it as the original "letter of build" clearly indicates.

My hope is to have this one ready for Dearborn, 2018.

I will make a number of separate posts this evening to bring this project "up to date".

Attached herein are photos of the vehicle upon purchase. I know, I know... "What was I thinking?"
My God, you are really gonna have to get-on with some of that "anal-ness" I spoke about earlier to pull this one off, Kube. Just where in the heck do ya start with a mess like that? I'm kind'a convinced from your past performances that there's probably no doubt, you'll pull this one off just fine. DD
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

The actual car looks pretty straight and original.
With a new floor installed it would be half-way there.
Good luck.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

It looks a lot better then some of the other "project" 40 convertibles i have seen for sale lately.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

V8coopman, and SwoopNZ, Believe me, there have been PLENTY of times in the past nine years I have asked myself "Self, WTF were you thinking"? The answer nearly always came back very much not to my liking.
To kind of play "catch up" on this project I can tell all that nearly everything related to this car sans the body and paint is done. Engine, trans, well, the entire drivetrain are done. Highly detailed and awaiting installation. The interior panels, seats, dash, moldings, etc. are done. Steering column, steering wheel... the list goes on and on. There are literally 22 boxes cataloged and stored in my basement along with all the items too large to box. ALL of it is done - detailed and ready to install.
Through the years, while restoring other cars, I have managed to spend a few hours here and there on sub-assemblies for this project.
In reality, there is very little to do other than the finish body and paint. The hood and fenders already have the guide coat on them. Once the body is where I want it, I'll get the fenders and hood aligned and blocked out.
Oh, the frame still needs to be restored. I'll get that done before any paint work on the body.
The photos attached herein depict pretty much where the body currently is at.
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File Type: jpg DSCN2122.jpg (51.4 KB, 697 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN3518.jpg (78.0 KB, 710 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN3519.jpg (80.3 KB, 671 views)
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

That car looks like where the phrase "ambitious project" was started. Did come with the original engine?...... Mark
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

The trunk lids on this model never seem to "look right". Yep, the design (in my opinion) fell short of what it could / should have been.
To make it to my liking, this lid was actually cut in to four sections. A little "shrink" here, a little "stretch" there and this one fits about as perfect as they get. It closes and latches under it's own weight from just an inch above the catch.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:44 PM   #8
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That car looks like where the phrase "ambitious project" was started. Did come with the original engine?...... Mark
Nope - the Mercury was long gone unfortunately.
On the fortunate side of things, I had a '40 Merc block and rebuilt it properly. Locating a pair of NOS high compression aluminum heads took a long time and lightened my wallet considerably. Still, the "build letter" specified those particular heads so another "had to have" item.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

I must say how much I admire your tenacity and dedication to this important project. Many of us here in New Zealand start projects in similar or worse states than your '40. I look forward to possibly seeing it at 2018 Grand National meet in Dearborn next year.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:34 PM   #10
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Well done, Sir!

Keeping it with the Merc may have been a few $$ more, but it's the berries.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

I'm curious what a 1940 Ford convertible cowl tag say that tells you it had a Mercury engine. I know very very little about the 40s. That's really neat.

Also, do those aluminum heads say Mercury somewhere? 99T heads or something?
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:12 PM   #12
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"Kube": You are amazing.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:23 PM   #13
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Following along. I am appreciative of your build threads and seeing the progress and quality of work and detail. Thank you.

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Old 06-28-2017, 05:24 PM   #14
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"Kube": You are amazing.
If "amazing" means "insane"- okay... we agree.
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:00 PM   #15
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Looking good!
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:12 PM   #16
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Wow!!! This is great. Looking forward to seeing this car at Dearborn 2018.
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

That is a pretty engine..... I've read your posts where you mention selling the vehicles you restore. I'm curious, do you keep any? Do have an early Ford that you drive?.... Mark
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Top notch work Kube. Good for you for saving it.
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:06 PM   #19
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That is a pretty engine..... I've read your posts where you mention selling the vehicles you restore. I'm curious, do you keep any? Do have an early Ford that you drive?.... Mark
I've saved many and sold even more. I have also done a number of them specifically for others.
To be quite frank, I have never really enjoyed driving them very much. I DO enjoy the restoration process immensely. From the research to the gathering of parts to the disassembly of each and every component to the restoration of those components and finally the assembly - the true "icing on the cake".
I know my OCD (obsessive / compulsive) behavior drives me to do this but I feel fortunate in that I am able to. Each project is a self test of sorts to see what I am capable of.
I know... strange indeed
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:12 PM   #20
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Top notch work Kube. Good for you for saving it.
I only hope this one ends up in good hands eventually. Being one of just 111, it is in a way a piece of history.
A total (all models) of 4182 - 1940 Fords were factory equipped with the Mercury engine. Most of them were Tudor sedans.
I knew of only one other convertible to exist built this way. I had witnessed it about ten to twelve years ago in New York. I have since lost track of it.

I had sold a deluxe coupe a few years ago that I had restored. That was also a documented "Merc" car. I know of only one other of those to still exist. It is near here (I ain't tellin') but is super rough. Still, it is documented since new so if and when I am able to acquire it - I most likely will.
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Maybe we went over this before but like Jason in TX I am wondering what cowl tag do you have, maybe a picture of it. My 40 convert project (for sale in the swap forum) has nothing like that.
I am CERTAIN your car will be stunning! And yes, you already have put LOTS of time into it.
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Old 06-28-2017, 08:21 PM   #22
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@Kube
My good friend is a custom modeler and will spend hundreds of hours building a model.......he said the first step to rehabilitation is recognition!!!!! Nice car and great work so far.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:04 PM   #23
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I'm curious what a 1940 Ford convertible cowl tag say that tells you it had a Mercury engine. I know very very little about the 40s. That's really neat.

Also, do those aluminum heads say Mercury somewhere? 99T heads or something?
The convertibles were to receive a tag on the cowl that indicated body number - nothing more. Some folks have told me their convertible never had one and had shown no sign of one. I can't argue with that. I can tell you that the convertibles were supposed to get a cowl tag.
The heads do not have Mercury upon them. They do have the "T" on the face of them, as do all 1940 Mercury heads. On the top "side" are the part numbers typical of all heads. these of course are 99AS 6049 and 6050.
I have documentation that dictates this was a special order car with the Merc engine.
If anyone is so interested, I would explain the process that was necessary to acquire a '40 Ford built in this fashion back in the day.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:08 PM   #24
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@Kube
My good friend is a custom modeler and will spend hundreds of hours building a model.......he said the first step to rehabilitation is recognition!!!!! Nice car and great work so far.
Laughin' my butt off. Only because your friend is so correct. I recognized my "sickness" decades ago. Not sure I've come too far on the road of rehabilitation though. I do feel fortunate in that it (the OCD) has manifested itself within me to produce as close to perfection as I can manage in the things I do. Came in handy when I was a tool & die maker
Many folks as you surely know have their OCD manifested in much less productive ways, like washing their hands 200+ times per day (example).
Like I said... I am fortunate that mine manifested itself in to something I enjoy so much.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:25 PM   #25
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Was the tag in the upper LH part of the firewall near the top. there are 3 tiny holes that never had any drive pins in them up there on my convertible that have Mandarin maroon paint in them. I vaguely remember asking you about these holes in the past. These holes are above where the wiring comes through the firewall. the 2 holes most inboard of the car are exactly 1/2" apart then the other hole is exactly 2" outboard of the outboard most hole of the ones that are 1/2" apart. All 3 of these holes are in a line parallel to the floor or I guess level. Under close examination, the holes appear to have original paint in them.
No number under the V reg like my woodie cowl either. Maybe this was a Friday car and missed the tagging.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

I had sold a deluxe coupe a few years ago that I had restored. That was also a documented "Merc" car. I know of only one other of those to still exist. It is near here (I ain't tellin') but is super rough. Still, it is documented since new so if and when I am able to acquire it - I most likely will.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:21 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
The trunk lids on this model never seem to "look right". Yep, the design (in my opinion) fell short of what it could / should have been.
To make it to my liking, this lid was actually cut in to four sections. A little "shrink" here, a little "stretch" there and this one fits about as perfect as they get. It closes and latches under it's own weight from just an inch above the catch.
I agree totally. I commend you for picking up what the manufacturer dropped the ball on.

I can still recall as a youngster thinking as how the forty coupe was the coolest thing ever made. I loved the tudor as well. One Sunday while pedaling my bike, as I rounded a bend I spied a convertible for the first time. In my excitement I approached the driver to see if he would be interested in making some kind of deal. Turned out he was just borrowing the car and took his two girlfriends for a ride but was now stuck with steam rising from the radiator.


Anyway, to shorten the story as I walked behind the car and viewed the trunk lid, I thought, 'a drop top is nice, but not the excellence radiated by the coupe'. Oh welll...

Kudos for tackling this hiccup. It certainly wasn't a small task.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:59 AM   #28
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I applaud you for bringing back history one car at a time.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:02 AM   #29
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Was the tag in the upper LH part of the firewall near the top. there are 3 tiny holes that never had any drive pins in them up there on my convertible that have Mandarin maroon paint in them. I vaguely remember asking you about these holes in the past. These holes are above where the wiring comes through the firewall. the 2 holes most inboard of the car are exactly 1/2" apart then the other hole is exactly 2" outboard of the outboard most hole of the ones that are 1/2" apart. All 3 of these holes are in a line parallel to the floor or I guess level. Under close examination, the holes appear to have original paint in them.
No number under the V reg like my woodie cowl either. Maybe this was a Friday car and missed the tagging.
Your memory is no doubt much better than mine. Still, I do recall you and I had a lengthy discussion about these tags.
Of course I can't say with any proof what actually transpired in the various assembly plants on any given day. We all know these cars were mass produced at a quick rate. There is no doubt many things that were supposed to happen were overlooked or simply ignored.

The dimples you describe on your firewall are exactly what were utilized to locate and attach these tags.
I have attached a photo of the tag that was present on my (former) Merc equipped Ford coupe. This tag, the matching serial number, trans number and title number offer only more confusion. I was never able to figure out what the "PC" was. Nor was I able to find anything in the Archives in this respect.
The stamped numbers in your firewall have been witnessed on other cars as you certainly know. They have been witnessed on closed cars as well as wagons. So, what does that mean?
I think it is obvious that no definitive process was strictly adhered to in 1940.
I firmly believe we will most likely never know with certainty what the tags and stamped number process was supposed to have been.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Since you had that tag on a coupe with a merc engine and a convert with a merc engine I wonder if the tag was a notification to the assembly personnel that there was an exception on this vehicle to be checked on a build sheet travelling with the car ie different engine? I haven't seen a tag like that on any other 40. I agree with you, we probably will never really know for sure. Thanks Mike. There is no doubt this convertible will be special. What color was it originally?
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:33 AM   #31
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The convertibles were to receive a tag on the cowl that indicated body number - nothing more. Some folks have told me their convertible never had one and had shown no sign of one. I can't argue with that. I can tell you that the convertibles were supposed to get a cowl tag.
The heads do not have Mercury upon them. They do have the "T" on the face of them, as do all 1940 Mercury heads. On the top "side" are the part numbers typical of all heads. these of course are 99AS 6049 and 6050.
I have documentation that dictates this was a special order car with the Merc engine.
If anyone is so interested, I would explain the process that was necessary to acquire a '40 Ford built in this fashion back in the day.
We've discussed this before,but my 2 40 convs.never had cowl tags as near as I can tell.The one has holes for a tag,and the firewalls are different from each other.My 40 coupe has the same firewall as one of the convs.,but the firewall that is in the other is the same as the one you pictured a while back.
The engine in one has aluminum Canadian heads with a 4 barrel intake and headers.The modifications to the engine was done before 1968.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:00 AM   #32
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Kube,

When it's done I'll treat you to the first tank of petrol ! (gas in your language)....PROMISE !
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:08 PM   #33
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

PC could have meant a lot of things. Production Code, Production Change, or Police Car just to name a few. What it actually means doesn't matter as much as just having it correct for all it had in its original form.

It looks like you have worked a lot of the issues with the body out so far. Sticking to schedule, your likely not to far off from the goal you set. This will certainly be an interesting project to finish up.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:16 PM   #34
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Since you had that tag on a coupe with a merc engine and a convert with a merc engine I wonder if the tag was a notification to the assembly personnel that there was an exception on this vehicle to be checked on a build sheet travelling with the car ie different engine? I haven't seen a tag like that on any other 40. I agree with you, we probably will never really know for sure. Thanks Mike. There is no doubt this convertible will be special. What color was it originally?
The tag on the coupe was unlike any I'd ever seen either. In fact the serial number on that car beginning with "PC" I'd never seen before (or since).
The tags I have seen on convertibles simply indicated body number. I have attached herein the tag from this car.
Another oddity I have noted is that this car and the one I knew of in New York both had "99" stamped in to the firewall, my coupe did not.
The "99" stamp would in my opinion be the "note" to the assembly line worker to install the Merc engine.
What do I know? Not much when it comes to these Merc powered Fords. it seems there was not much of a definitive method of production.

This car was built Lyon Blue and shall be once again.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

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We've discussed this before,but my 2 40 convs.never had cowl tags as near as I can tell.The one has holes for a tag,and the firewalls are different from each other.My 40 coupe has the same firewall as one of the convs.,but the firewall that is in the other is the same as the one you pictured a while back.
The engine in one has aluminum Canadian heads with a 4 barrel intake and headers.The modifications to the engine was done before 1968.
There was an "early" firewall and a "late" firewall... both somewhat different from one another. No doubt one of your cars was an early build. That would explain the differences you note.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:21 PM   #36
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PC could have meant a lot of things. Production Code, Production Change, or Police Car just to name a few. What it actually means doesn't matter as much as just having it correct for all it had in its original form.

It looks like you have worked a lot of the issues with the body out so far. Sticking to schedule, your likely not to far off from the goal you set. This will certainly be an interesting project to finish up.
I too have came up with the possibilities you mention. Still, I could never find any documentation that would support any theory.

I will build this exactly as the "build letter" showed it to be ordered. No radio nor heater will make it kind of odd for a convertible as it seems most seen at a show these days are loaded with accessories.
The "build letter" did not call out for either so this car won't be getting them.

The letter did not specify tires. I am still on the fence as to what I might install. They will be the optional 6:50 but whites or blacks?
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:58 AM   #37
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Kube, If I were closer I'd love to come help you and learn at the same time. I have the feeling though that you would kick my ass out of the shop! Project looks good so far. Hopefully we get to meet up in Dearborn.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:21 PM   #38
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First class work Kube ,it will be all worth it in the end .Ted
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:19 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Kube

In 1935 ford had a Phaeton coupe, why not in 1940?
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Old 07-01-2017, 12:26 PM   #40
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The convertibles were to receive a tag on the cowl that indicated body number - nothing more. Some folks have told me their convertible never had one and had shown no sign of one. I can't argue with that. I can tell you that the convertibles were supposed to get a cowl tag.
The heads do not have Mercury upon them. They do have the "T" on the face of them, as do all 1940 Mercury heads. On the top "side" are the part numbers typical of all heads. these of course are 99AS 6049 and 6050.
I have documentation that dictates this was a special order car with the Merc engine.
If anyone is so interested, I would explain the process that was necessary to acquire a '40 Ford built in this fashion back in the day.
The heads on one of my 40 convs.have C7RA6050B made in Canada and are aluminum.
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Old 07-01-2017, 12:33 PM   #41
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Your memory is no doubt much better than mine. Still, I do recall you and I had a lengthy discussion about these tags.
Of course I can't say with any proof what actually transpired in the various assembly plants on any given day. We all know these cars were mass produced at a quick rate. There is no doubt many things that were supposed to happen were overlooked or simply ignored.

The dimples you describe on your firewall are exactly what were utilized to locate and attach these tags.
I have attached a photo of the tag that was present on my (former) Merc equipped Ford coupe. This tag, the matching serial number, trans number and title number offer only more confusion. I was never able to figure out what the "PC" was. Nor was I able to find anything in the Archives in this respect.
The stamped numbers in your firewall have been witnessed on other cars as you certainly know. They have been witnessed on closed cars as well as wagons. So, what does that mean?
I think it is obvious that no definitive process was strictly adhered to in 1940.
I firmly believe we will most likely never know with certainty what the tags and stamped number process was supposed to have been.
I've heard of P being stamped ahead of the vin no.meaning police car,buf haven't seen one.
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Old 07-01-2017, 01:07 PM   #42
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The heads on one of my 40 convs.have C7RA6050B made in Canada and are aluminum.
Sounds like a much later engine than 1940.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:41 PM   #43
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

All of those AS type special high compression heads are a bear to find. A person would have to turn over a lot of stones to find those plus a lot of shekels to buy them when they do. Most of them likely were worn out on the race tracks back in the day.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:25 PM   #44
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All of those AS type special high compression heads are a bear to find. A person would have to turn over a lot of stones to find those plus a lot of shekels to buy them when they do. Most of them likely were worn out on the race tracks back in the day.
Rotor, I am nearly embarrassed to say how much those cost me. They are NOS and only required glass beading and a high temperature clear coat.
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Old 07-02-2017, 09:02 AM   #45
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Hey Kube - really fun post (I know nothing about 40' Ford cars - except the engines). I have a 40 Merc Coupe - obviously a different beast all together. Mine is unrestored, but I have everything for it except an original 40 Merc engines. I'm not into stock engines, so that is not a concern for me. Like you, I think I have a big dose of OCD when it comes to how I work, my attention to minute details, things I obsess with, etc.. In truth, sometimes it is the most minute detail of something that captures my interest the most. LOL!

I think I enjoy the research, problem solving and work more than the driving. But, I must say that starting a new high-performance flathead for the first time - is always Christmas for me! The long work that goes into the build, getting ready for the first fire, the anticipation, the anxiety, etc -- it brings me back to being a 15 year old kid when I fired up my first 286 cube flathead. Funny how we just love the details of building things . . . but when they're done, we really want to just do it again . . .

Great work and thanks for sharing!
B&S

Here is the 41-42 Merc Engine for my 32 - another '6 month' engine build that took 2 years!
IMG_1372 copy.jpg
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:18 AM   #46
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B&S, that is the same engine color I am using on a 48 engine for a 33 project. Love the color!
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Old 07-02-2017, 12:11 PM   #47
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Nice but just takes cubic dollars!
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:12 AM   #48
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Sounds like a much later engine than 1940.
The prefix would indicate 57,but I didn't think that heads were being produced that late.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:32 AM   #49
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The prefix would indicate 57,but I didn't think that heads were being produced that late.
The heads were produced in to the mid to late 60's.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:40 AM   #50
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Hey Kube - really fun post (I know nothing about 40' Ford cars - except the engines). I have a 40 Merc Coupe - obviously a different beast all together. Mine is unrestored, but I have everything for it except an original 40 Merc engines. I'm not into stock engines, so that is not a concern for me. Like you, I think I have a big dose of OCD when it comes to how I work, my attention to minute details, things I obsess with, etc.. In truth, sometimes it is the most minute detail of something that captures my interest the most. LOL!

I think I enjoy the research, problem solving and work more than the driving. But, I must say that starting a new high-performance flathead for the first time - is always Christmas for me! The long work that goes into the build, getting ready for the first fire, the anticipation, the anxiety, etc -- it brings me back to being a 15 year old kid when I fired up my first 286 cube flathead. Funny how we just love the details of building things . . . but when they're done, we really want to just do it again . . .

Great work and thanks for sharing!
B&S

Here is the 41-42 Merc Engine for my 32 - another '6 month' engine build that took 2 years!
Attachment 321469
Wow! Finally! A guy that thinks somewhat like me. There are now officially two of us (maybe).

Seriously B&S, thanks for sharing.
When on occasion I reminisce, there were clear signs of my OCD at a very young age. I don't believe there was a label for it back then other than maybe "odd boy".
To this day I have all of my Matchbox toy cars in the boxes (of course) and all in perfect condition. Nope, couldn't play with them. Just took them out of the boxes, looked at them and put them back.
Kind of the same thing now only the "matchboxes" are much larger and much more costly. The box has become an enclosed trailer

I have been fortunate in life. Lots of worse things than OCD. Plus, mine manifested itself in a productive way.

You keep on enjoying the hobby as you do. I have taken quite a bit of poopy from those that simply don't understand the reward of all that research and hours making the car as perfect as possible. Hey, I love it and it brings me a lot of enjoyment. So, what's wrong with that?
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:17 AM   #51
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Another great build!

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Old 07-03-2017, 10:58 AM   #52
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[...
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:09 AM   #53
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...

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Old 07-03-2017, 08:02 PM   #54
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Wow! Finally! A guy that thinks somewhat like me. There are now officially two of us (maybe).

Hey, I love it and it brings me a lot of enjoyment. So, what's wrong with that?
Hey Kube - we're kind of kindred souls. I think I've always questioned the status quo and wanted to know 'why and how', not just 'what'. So I've always chased the details - trying to find out what I'd consider my own 'personal truths'. I was fortunate growing up in SoCal, guys like Isky, Joe Reath, Joe Hunt, Snuffy Smith and others sort of took me under their wings --- and they encouraged me to question and not just 'believe' what was considered gospel (even by them). Great mentors who taught you to question, research, experiment, fall-down, get-up and do it again.

I remember when I was about 20 years old (Ed Isky was about 65) - I had been studying Harley KR race flatheads (neighbor built a bunch of them - and had "all the good stuff"). So I go to see Ed and I say - "I want to make a roller cam for a flathead Ford" -- he says to me "roller cams don't work in flatheads" . . . and I say right back . . . "Well, that is funny, the Harley KR has won about 15 of 19 Daytona's and every dang one had a roller cam???". So - he agreed to work with me to build a couple . . . and one of them is in that engine that I posted a picture of earlier. I just saw Ed at the PRI show in Indy in December - we had a good ole' time reminiscing about me being a young kid, questioning his 'truths' and he being willing to explore them further. That is one of the GREAT things about that man, as smart and successful as he's been - he's still willing to keep listening, experimenting and learning (not many folks like him). I was blessed to have those experiences.

In the end, I think it is the core traits of curiosity, problem solving, relentlessness and striving for 'perfection' . . . that drives goofy bastards like us. (Sorry about including you in that!). I think I've learned more from wanting to know 'why', then from the easy answers that were given (even by the best of the best). That is how you learn . . .

Best of luck with your projects, if I can ever help you with your flathead work, drop me a note!

Cheers,
B&S

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Old 07-04-2017, 10:24 AM   #55
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To resurrect a Lazarus type car or even just an engine carries a lot of satisfaction with it but to watch it deteriorate is equally painful. I understand the pain but I gave up worrying about it a long time ago. I restore helicopters to their best possible condition only to see their owners take them out and wear them back out all over again. It's harder for me to watch the older ones like the Bell 47 deteriorate because they are a lot harder to repair, rebuild, and source certain parts for them now but I don't lose sleep over it any more. I'd have changed professions a long time ago if it did bother me. What, and get out of aviation? No way Jose! Same with auto & motorcycle restoration. I just wish I had a large enough place to preserve all the junk I want to stay nice while I'm still above ground. I'm afraid it would take more acres than I could maintain.

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Old 07-15-2017, 09:18 AM   #56
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Man oh man, just never enough time in a day... I am back at this project with the goal remaining of Dearborn, 2018.
Obviously all new floors, tool tray and tail pan. Cleaned up the inside of the quarters as best I could. Later, I'll apply sound deadening in all places that will be well hidden once the car is assembled.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:34 AM   #57
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Just curious where you sourced the floor pans. There aren't a lot of them being made now days.
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:01 PM   #58
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Just curious where you sourced the floor pans. There aren't a lot of them being made now days.
Floor was from Hershey. Tool tray is reproduction.
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:28 PM   #59
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Looking good for sure!
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Old 07-23-2017, 03:11 PM   #60
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Managed to get the body in prime last Friday. Doors and trunk lid fit beautifully.
Next step is to reinstall doors and fit top mechanism perfectly. After that I'll remove the top assembly, doors and trunk lid and after bracing the body, put it on the rotisserie.

Some of you may notice my OCD showing through in the way I have to get the inside of the body as nice as the outside. I know no one will ever see these areas once the car is complete but I'll always know... can't help myself.

This will be the fourth '40 convertible I've done. it took me the first two to think smart enough to keep the jigs I'd made to brace the body. I kept thinking "this will be the last one" and threw the jigs away not once, but twice. Duh.
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:24 PM   #61
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Yippee! Made huge strides today. Finally feels like I have "turned the corner".
Top assembly fits perfectly and is now ready to disassemble (again) and refinish.
Removed the doors (again) after making certain (again) that all the gaps are perfect.
Hopefully I'll be painting the inside of the body shell next week. Then I'll brace it well and put it on the rotisserie so the bottom and outside can be painted.
These are the type of days when I start to feel the rewards of all the work done to date.

Going back out there for a few hours. Why not? Kind of on a roll
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:43 PM   #62
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Yippee! Made huge strides today. Finally feels like I have "turned the corner".
Top assembly fits perfectly and is now ready to disassemble (again) and refinish.
Removed the doors (again) after making certain (again) that all the gaps are perfect.
Hopefully I'll be painting the inside of the body shell next week. Then I'll brace it well and put it on the rotisserie so the bottom and outside can be painted.
These are the type of days when I start to feel the rewards of all the work done to date.

Going back out there for a few hours. Why not? Kind of on a roll
Mike, when you finally get done, get a Lone Star Long Neck to break across the grill.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:55 PM   #63
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Should be another Dearborn winner coming out of Kube's garage! Patience pays off! Ken
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:17 PM   #64
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Mike, when you finally get done, get a Lone Star Long Neck to break across the grill.
I believe I've heard that Mike only sips Korbel....no Long Necks on the premises. DD
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:41 AM   #65
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I believe I've heard that Mike only sips Korbel....no Long Necks on the premises. DD
Sips? You heard wrong.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:15 AM   #66
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Good job Kube, I like what you do on your lunch hour.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:10 AM   #67
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I see lots of bare metal and may have missed what was used to blast/strip. I have what I believe to be some great metal on my coupe and want to do the stripping as the body disserves. Way nothing rare except as to condition but still worth it. Please share that detail. Fred A
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:59 AM   #68
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I see lots of bare metal and may have missed what was used to blast/strip. I have what I believe to be some great metal on my coupe and want to do the stripping as the body disserves. Way nothing rare except as to condition but still worth it. Please share that detail. Fred A
I prefer plastic beads (blasting) for the body, fenders, etc. Chemical stripping scares me as I have seen too many times the residual effect of the stripper not being thoroughly removed from seams, etc.
The plastic beading will not pit the sheet metal nor warp it in any way. And although it won't remove heavy rust, those areas are always replaced with new metal anyway.
To remove the undercoating on the inside I use a lot of elbow grease, some heat (carefully so as not to warp metal) and finally, lots of solvent.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:24 AM   #69
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This is really neat. Thank you for sharing the pictures.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:48 PM   #70
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Sips? You heard wrong.
I tried to refrain from using the word "guzzle". DD
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:25 PM   #71
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I tried to refrain from using the word "guzzle". DD
Funny as heck... but perhaps more appropriate than "sip"
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Old 09-22-2017, 03:13 PM   #72
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Kube, with you doing the restro, we know it will always be "right-on"...
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:53 PM   #73
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

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Kube, with you doing the restro, we know it will always be "right-on"...
Thanks for the kind words.
Today was another good day in the shop. makes the countless hours leading up to this moment somehow erase from my memory. Well, not completely but somewhat
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Old 09-23-2017, 02:59 PM   #74
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Kube, Thank You for sharing your pictures they are very helpful, especially the body shell pics. look forward to more!
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Old 09-23-2017, 04:36 PM   #75
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Kube I have a bolt in body support bracketry that I used on both of my 40 convertibles bodies that has a centered location for a engine cherry picker.I'm not going to need again,and someone like you shud have it.I can send you a picture of it via e-mail or text maybe.
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Old 09-23-2017, 05:11 PM   #76
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Kube I have a bolt in body support bracketry that I used on both of my 40 convertibles bodies that has a centered location for a engine cherry picker.I'm not going to need again,and someone like you shud have it.I can send you a picture of it via e-mail or text maybe.
Mighty kind of you and thanks for the very gracious offer.
I have a jig that I'd made a few convertible (restorations) ago that bolt within the body. With it, I have no fear that the body will flex at all, even being rotated on the rotisserie.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:45 PM   #77
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I have to say I haven't seen anyone that does high quality work like this within restorations. There aren't many with the knowledge or fortitude to find the right answer when it comes to restoring. As always keep the posts coming. It gets me excited to work on my project!!! Can you give an update on the truck you did last? Was it a keeper or did you sell it?
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:45 PM   #78
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Bending this thread a little I notice on the online classified section of the V8 Club a gorgeous 40 Standard Tudor. While you are not named it's inferred that you are the restorer. Last month the price was 32K. Now it's down to 30K. Still no takers. What's happening to the V8 market? Care to comment? Bill
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:51 PM   #79
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Bending this thread a little I notice on the online classified section of the V8 Club a gorgeous 40 Standard Tudor. While you are not named it's inferred that you are the restorer. Last month the price was 32K. Now it's down to 30K. Still no takers. What's happening to the V8 market? Care to comment? Bill
Bill, I'd simply owned that car - as in "I'd purchased it, kept it for some time and subsequently sold it". I had NOTHING to do with its restoration.
I am not thrilled about how my name was used in that ad...
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:25 PM   #80
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Kube I have a bolt in body support bracketry that I used on both of my 40 convertibles bodies that has a centered location for a engine cherry picker.I'm not going to need again,and someone like you shud have it.I can send you a picture of it via e-mail or text maybe.
Milt,
I thought you may get a kick out of my bracketry. This is the third convertible I've done using this.

Managed to get the guide coat on the outer body today. Tomorrow I'll remove the trunk lid and bracketry and wet sand the inside of the body. I hope to be able to paint the inside by this weekend.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1040168.jpg (52.3 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg P1040169.jpg (43.7 KB, 229 views)
File Type: jpg P1040170.jpg (53.4 KB, 237 views)
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:39 AM   #81
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well built structure
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:28 AM   #82
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Great work as always Kube - I just enjoy your posts and the quality of your work. You obviously have a bit of OCD tendencies like me! LOL
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:22 AM   #83
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

I've always been curious as to how Ford
put these convertibles together originally.
Did they use something similar to what Kube
uses or something else?
Ken
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:02 PM   #84
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Well, the inside of the body got painted the other day. Almost a shame to be covering it up later on. I will install Acoustashield® in the inner body in all areas that won't show - quarters, cowl, doors. Although this car is unlikely to see many road miles, the added insulation makes the car seem more "solid" and just in case this car ever does turn in to a daily driver, the insulation will most certainly quiet the interior down a bit.

Next? I'm already working on the frame. Once that's painted (soon I hope) I will assemble the chassis. I have ALL of the pieces for the chassis rebuilt / refinished and as such, ready to install.
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File Type: jpg P1040184.jpg (53.0 KB, 284 views)
File Type: jpg P1040185.jpg (58.2 KB, 285 views)
File Type: jpg P1040186.jpg (52.0 KB, 271 views)
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:10 PM   #85
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I've always been curious as to how Ford
put these convertibles together originally.
Did they use something similar to what Kube
uses or something else?
Ken
Ken, I am quite certain a number of jigs would have been used to quickly locate respective body panels for welding. No doubt the jigs would have been designed to install and remove as quickly as possible as these were "low end" vehicles and speed / efficiency of the build process would have been important.
"Production gaps" between doors, cowl / quarters were often not very even but certainly "good enough" for a high volume production setting.

My fixture is quite time consuming to install. However, it's necessary (in my opinion) as I am building these cars to a degree of perfection not considered in 1940.
This particular build the body had been bolted directly to the frame (no shims / no pads) when I was getting the gaps as perfect as I'm able. When the body is finally assembled "permanently", it'll be easy to repeat the gaps with the addition of the factory body to frame pads.
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:25 PM   #86
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Mike,

Great work and progress. I think you are only one of three that I'm aware of who wet sands inside the body.
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Old 10-19-2017, 02:38 AM   #87
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I'm serious when I say this, I can't walk away without expressing it. GOLLY GEE!
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:31 AM   #88
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Outstanding !!!!!!
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:09 AM   #89
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Mike,

Great work and progress. I think you are only one of three that I'm aware of who wet sands inside the body.
There are two others as sick as me? You would be one no doubt. Who's the third poor soul?
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:54 AM   #90
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Your talent and dedication is inspiring. Once again "Great Job"!
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:51 AM   #91
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Milt,
I thought you may get a kick out of my bracketry. This is the third convertible I've done using this.

Managed to get the guide coat on the outer body today. Tomorrow I'll remove the trunk lid and bracketry and wet sand the inside of the body. I hope to be able to paint the inside by this weekend.
My jig is less involved.It has 6 mounting locations to keep the body from spreading,2 at both sides of the cowl,2 on both sides behind the doors,and 2 by the trunk hinges.It has a cross plate with cheese holes so you can attach a cherry picker.Who ever buys my 40 conv. basket case will undoubtly want the jig.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:57 AM   #92
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My jig is less involved.It has 6 mounting locations to keep the body from spreading,2 at both sides of the cowl,2 on both sides behind the doors,and 2 by the trunk hinges.It has a cross plate with cheese holes so you can attach a cherry picker.Who ever buys my 40 conv. basket case will undoubtly want the jig.
I'd send pics,but don't know how to submit them.
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Old 10-19-2017, 12:58 PM   #93
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There are two others as sick as me? You would be one no doubt. Who's the third poor soul?
SOMEWHERE, some time back, I heard or read that the paint and finish on the inside of the dash (firewall) and behind the instrument panel on that blue '40 coupe in your avatar is every bit as nice as the paint and finish on the outside of the car. Can't be true, no? DD
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Old 10-19-2017, 04:53 PM   #94
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Was that Bill Sutton's Car ?? Kerk
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:38 PM   #95
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SOMEWHERE, some time back, I heard or read that the paint and finish on the inside of the dash (firewall) and behind the instrument panel on that blue '40 coupe in your avatar is every bit as nice as the paint and finish on the outside of the car. Can't be true, no? DD
You my friend have a fantastic memory. I went crazy on that restoration and yes, I wet sanded the entire inside (body).
So go ahead... laugh
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:40 PM   #96
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do you still need the door lock springs ? I have them John.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:42 PM   #97
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do you still need the door lock springs ? I have them john.
yes! Yes! Yes!
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:34 PM   #98
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Mike,

In my case it is my very good friend, Larry Jordon, and the third would be Mike McKennett of Portland, OR.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:56 AM   #99
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Mike,

In my case it is my very good friend, Larry Jordon, and the third would be Mike McKennett of Portland, OR.
On a serious note Dave, I can't imagine doing a full and proper restoration without making the inside (body) as nice as the outside.
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:23 PM   #100
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Yep, I'm still at it. The last three months of each year requires me to be out of my shop much of the time. Still, I manage when I can to "hide" in there.
I've managed to get a number of small pieces refinished. Things like hood supports, trunk supports, grille louvers, etc.
I have the grille nearly assembled. Cost a small fortune to get the center sections plated. I had a pair of NOS but they were a bit pitted - not worthy of this restoration in my opinion.

My most recent accomplishment is restoring the springs. I always start with NOS as they restore the proper ride height as well as the engineered handling characteristics.

I disassemble the NOS springs and glass bead each individual leaf. I then have each individual leaf powder finished.
I install NOS perch pins as I have found the repops to be of poor quality. The Ford pins are between .004" + .007" oversize and as such require a special tool to install them properly. Without that somewhat extreme press fit, the spring will not rebound as engineered.
I apply a bit of grease to the ends of each leaf when reassembling them. Once assembled the difficult process begins. That's installing restored covers.
As many no doubt realize the covers were "stock" on all 1940 Ford Deluxe models.
Installing these covers requires the spring assembly to be flat.
I've attached a few "before" photos for those so interested in this process.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1040189.jpg (46.3 KB, 183 views)
File Type: jpg P1040191.jpg (60.0 KB, 172 views)
File Type: jpg P1040244.jpg (54.7 KB, 174 views)
File Type: jpg P1040246.jpg (40.2 KB, 191 views)
File Type: jpg P1040251.jpg (34.5 KB, 224 views)
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:24 PM   #101
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Here's some "after" photos...
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File Type: jpg P1040254.jpg (41.9 KB, 228 views)
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:08 AM   #102
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I always look forward to an early spring. I hope the next is as nice as yours'!
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:43 AM   #103
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Thanks for the write-up, Mike. Tell me, what sort of material are the covers made from, and how do you apply it?

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Old 01-22-2018, 11:05 AM   #104
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Hey guys! Well, I'm finally back at this project. Between the holiday's and health issues it's been a tough recent past.
Anyway, I managed to get the frame done and have started to assemble it. I typically have all of the subassemblies done and ready to install so this process goes rather quickly.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:08 AM   #105
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I'm also back at the (main) body. The inside of this is already painted. The outside, sans the bottom, has the guide coat applied. The bottom, as can be seen here, needs little to bring it to the same point. I'm hoping I can get this painted within the next few weeks.
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File Type: jpg P1040278.jpg (49.0 KB, 152 views)
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:12 AM   #106
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Thanks for the write-up, Mike. Tell me, what sort of material are the covers made from, and how do you apply it?

Mart.
Hi ya Mart,
See post #100 for a fairly thorough explanation of how I install these covers. As original, they are simply galvanized sheet metal.
These reproductions have been duplicated (exactly) from original sets.
The first time I'd installed a set it took me better than two hours. I can now do a set in about 1/2 hour.
I've learned a few tricks though past trials and tribulations
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:18 AM   #107
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Kube, Beautiful work! My question is in regards to the frame vs the body. I have tinkered with replacing sheet metal panels over the years, but it escapes me on how you would restore 10 guage steel frame rails. This era Ford frame is notorious for having rust between the riveted rails especially in the "S" bend at the rear of the frame. I saw your beginning photos so I am sure there was some rust. Do you remove all the rivets and reassemble the frame? What paint do you use to paint your frames?
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:02 PM   #108
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Kube, Beautiful work! My question is in regards to the frame vs the body. I have tinkered with replacing sheet metal panels over the years, but it escapes me on how you would restore 10 guage steel frame rails. This era Ford frame is notorious for having rust between the riveted rails especially in the "S" bend at the rear of the frame. I saw your beginning photos so I am sure there was some rust. Do you remove all the rivets and reassemble the frame? What paint do you use to paint your frames?
This particular frame had rot directly beneath the battery box. After cutting back to solid metal and removing any necessary rivets, I butt weld in a piece of steel of the exact same thickness of the adjoining frame area.

I did have to replace a piece in that "S" bend you'd referred to a past restoration. I use the same method as anywhere else on a frame - cut out the offending area, remove rivets as necessary and butt weld in steel of the same thickness. This area is difficult to do as you know.

I use single stage paint on the frames for the finish coat. For the prep, etching primer and primer (of course) followed by (too) many hours of wet sanding.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:44 PM   #109
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You make it sound so easy!!!! But how do you get the round bend at the top and bottom of the frame rail. These were pressed by Ford on huge presses, this is the area that's not often duplicated by the aftermarket frame guys. Who just three pieces of steel to form the "C" channel. And although they look pretty flat and straight from a side profile, there more than a few curves and bends pressed into the frame rails..
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:57 PM   #110
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Kube, the chassis and underfloor pics look fantastic.

Kube, If I post any pics, please don't look at 'em, might put you off your lunch.

Re the curve on the edge of the frame, when I did a similar job I cut the patch piece from a piece of square tube and used the curved edge to simulate the curve on the frame rail. I used about 1/2" of the one side and made the join that far down the side. I imagine Mike does it a lot tidier, though.

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Old 01-22-2018, 03:03 PM   #111
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You make it sound so easy!!!! But how do you get the round bend at the top and bottom of the frame rail. These were pressed by Ford on huge presses, this is the area that's not often duplicated by the aftermarket frame guys. Who just three pieces of steel to form the "C" channel. And although they look pretty flat and straight from a side profile, there more than a few curves and bends pressed into the frame rails..
Being a retired tool & die maker has its advantages
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:21 PM   #112
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Kube
You remind me of my neighbor, He was a GS-14 machinist at the local Navel Refit Facility....he was having a garage/shop built at his house and it was driving him nuts from the foundation to the framers to the trim carpenter how "cavalier" they were being a 1/16th to 1/8 off!!!! Nuts I tell you, drove him nuts!!!! My other buddy who is a "professional" model builder (or at least that's what I call him, he actually does it for fun) he has spent 100 hours on a paint job on a 1/24th model. My best friend said he can "pick fly crap outta pepper".......I showed him your work and He said to tell you the first step to recovery is recognition!!! He loved your work by the way....I will have to post a few of his models he builds, like your work...phenomenal!!!!!

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Old 01-22-2018, 05:27 PM   #113
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Kube
You remind me of my neighbor, He was a GS-14 machinist at the local Navel Refit Facility....he was having a garage/shop built at his house and it was driving him nuts from the foundation to the framers to the trim carpenter how "cavalier" they were being a 1/16th to 1/8 off!!!! Nuts I tell you, drove him nuts!!!! My other buddy who is a "professional" model builder (or at least that's what I call him, he actually does it for fun) he has spent 100 hours on a paint job on a 1/24th model. My best friend said he can "pick fly crap outta pepper".......I showed him your work and He said to tell you the first step to recovery is recognition!!! He loved your work by the way....I will have to post a few of his models he builds, like your work...phenomenal!!!!!
Every time I start to believe I am truly crazy, I hear about a guy like your best friend and think "now that guy is crazy"!
As long as there are guys spending a 100 hours on a 1/24th model kit paint job, "I'm okay".

When I built my last home, I was a lot of "hands on" and like your neighbor, I was insistent that the house be "true". Let me tell ya, it was...

In all seriousness, this retentiveness is not what some might think is such a good thing. The drive to perfection has an impossible arrival point. There simply is no such thing as "perfection". Still, I'll keep chasing it

Thanks for your kind words!
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:28 PM   #114
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

If your happy with something, most of us here know it's got to be pretty damn close to as good as it gets. Not a thing wrong with that as long as your OK with it. That's going to be one damn fine car when you're as close to done as you care to get. The rest of us will just drool a bit with a look of awe. It's rare to see them so close to factory show room fresh.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:04 PM   #115
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Where do you get the spring covers from? I need to replace mine.
Thanks,
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:40 AM   #116
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Mike,
Looks great! You get a big thumbs up from the hillbilly here in TN (me). I admire the attention to the details.

Question.... Typically when you do a 1940 do you prefer to install the steering gear before or after the body is set?
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:37 AM   #117
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Mike,
Looks great! You get a big thumbs up from the hillbilly here in TN (me). I admire the attention to the details.

Question.... Typically when you do a 1940 do you prefer to install the steering gear before or after the body is set?
Mike,
Thanks for the kind words.

I install the gear prior to the body drop. Makes my life so much easier. I don't tighten the gear to the frame until the instrument panel is completely installed.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:56 PM   #118
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Beautiful
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:12 PM   #119
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Got the bottom of the floor primed today. I hope to have it painted in the next few days.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:23 PM   #120
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Simply unreal. I guess I've got lots of work to do on this '40 project of mine!
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:02 PM   #121
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Beautiful
Thanks Chris!
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:13 PM   #122
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Mike,

Super; now the fun part, wet sanding.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:32 AM   #123
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Thought you guys may find this sway bar interesting. It's the first design used in 1940. VERY rare these days as most (nearly all) that were installed (well in to January, 1940) had been swapped at dealerships for the second and final design you are most familiar with.
I've seen three of these assemblies in all of my years. One was on the last coupe I'd restored and one is on a car not far from here.
These may be as rare as the electric clock - perhaps more so.
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:58 AM   #124
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Even from the bottom side, the 40 Ford has sexy body lines!
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:06 PM   #125
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Mike if it’s already covered In this thread I apologize for asking, but a mercury in a Ford question. Would the engine be ford green or the mercury engine color when installed in a 1940. Whilst on this topic what does the original mercury color look like? Blue?
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:57 PM   #126
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Mike if it’s already covered In this thread I apologize for asking, but a mercury in a Ford question. Would the engine be ford green or the mercury engine color when installed in a 1940. Whilst on this topic what does the original mercury color look like? Blue?
Ford did not start painting the Merc engines blue until 1941 I believe. Before that, they were green.
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Old 01-26-2018, 09:42 AM   #127
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Just stamping the blocks with a "99" wasn't working out to ID them at the factory so the dark blue color change was the what they came up with. It probably was in late 1940 or early 41 when they changed the casting cores and shell mold to the later design which eliminated the core sand holes in the pan rail and changed the profile of the intake deck to have the raised appearance. The 239 engines kept this color thru 1948.

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Old 01-26-2018, 12:02 PM   #128
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Just stamping the blocks with a "99" wasn't working out to ID them at the factory so the dark blue color change was the what they came up with. It probably was in late 1940 or early 41 when they changed the casting cores and shell mold to the later design which eliminated the core sand holes in the pan rail and changed the profile of the intake deck to have the raised appearance. The 239 engines kept this color thru 1948.
Very good and accurate information Rotor... as usual!
To add a bit: The so called "program" with which a person might get a Merc engine installed in a '40 Ford was unofficial in 1940. That, and the very cumbersome requirements to even seek permission for such an install no doubt kept the number so built extremely low.
In 1941, this "program" became official but remained largely "unannounced". The number of '41 Fords built with a Merc engine was quite a bit higher than the previous year.

NO 1939 Fords were built with a Mercury engine. Sorry guys - it simply didn't happen.
As a side note of sorts, the "raised deck" blocks were not introduced until August 1940, far too late to have been installed in any 1940 Ford.

By the way, I have witnessed first hand a total of four (well documented) 1940 Fords built with a Mercury engine. All engines were painted green as were the transmissions. I had owned one of these cars and still own one other.
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:17 PM   #129
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Mike,

Super; now the fun part, wet sanding.
All done! Took only about twelve hours. Got the color on it a couple of hours ago.
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:21 PM   #130
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Mike,

Looks great; no grass growing under your feet!

Dave
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:01 AM   #131
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I managed to get the "rear" assembled and installed in the car late yesterday. I am so thrilled this car is coming together.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:20 AM   #132
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Mike,

I am sure you have been asked this a hundred times but I'll ask once more; what paint do you use on the frame and suspension? Thanks.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:23 AM   #133
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Kube,

Your top notch. One word "amazing". I'm 74 over the years I have done a number of restorations, lots of work. I don't have the drive and time to do any more. I'm still working full time at my business. Wish I could still burn the midnight candle ! Keep up the posts. By the way I have a friend that just purchased a 39 convertible coupe, would you know where the spare tire was keep on them? Frank pkny
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:25 AM   #134
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Mike,

Looks great; no grass growing under your feet!

Dave
Kube
Also admirable is the determination and the "depth of the well" to keep it going!! As the new F150 commercial says "you don't raise the bar, you are the bar!!"
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:59 AM   #135
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Kube,

Your top notch. One word "amazing". I'm 74 over the years I have done a number of restorations, lots of work. I don't have the drive and time to do any more. I'm still working full time at my business. Wish I could still burn the midnight candle ! Keep up the posts. By the way I have a friend that just purchased a 39 convertible coupe, would you know where the spare tire was keep on them? Frank pkny
Frank, Like you, I'm slowing down a bit as well. Between businesses, horses (lots of them) and well, "life" in general - doesn't leave a lot of time for playing with cars. Still, it's probably my favorite thing besides my wife.

I've attached a photo of the spare tire in a '39 convertible coupe. There is a flap that folds over it once installed. Hope this helps.
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:00 AM   #136
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Also admirable is the determination and the "depth of the well" to keep it going!! As the new F150 commercial says "you don't raise the bar, you are the bar!!"
Thanks for the kind and surely undeserving words.

Sometimes my 'well" seems to be getting quite shallow
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:42 AM   #137
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Sometimes my 'well" seems to be getting quite shallow
I thought that was mayonnaise jars! DD
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:43 AM   #138
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Stiff upper lip you guys; while I only get to work on them every other week and then only seasonally, when I do, sixteen hour days are the norm for this 78 year old.
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:42 AM   #139
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Stiff upper lip you guys; while I only get to work on them every other week and then only seasonally, when I do, sixteen hour days are the norm for this 78 year old.
Sixteen? That sounds about right in total for what I want to do and what needs to be done. Folks question why we eat our dinner around 9:30 / 10 each night. Why? There's stuff to be done!

Dave, I only pray I can do what you do at 78. Good for you my friend!!!
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Old 01-30-2018, 02:20 PM   #140
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Mike,

That's wish for you too, my 'young' friend!
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Old 01-30-2018, 03:39 PM   #141
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Beautiful work, your a top shelf restorer. Thanks for the spare tire post. Frank PKNY
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:12 PM   #142
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Mike,

I am sure you have been asked this a hundred times but I'll ask once more; what paint do you use on the frame and suspension? Thanks.
Hi Ted,

I'm sorry I didn't address this sooner. Sometimes I seem to get scattered.

On the frames and miscellaneous chassis parts I use Mason (brand) single stage gloss black enamel. It holds up very well and provides a deep gloss.
I would not use this on a body panel...
If I recall, it's about $300 or so per gallon.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:12 PM   #143
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Beautiful work, your a top shelf restorer. Thanks for the spare tire post. Frank PKNY
Thanks Frank
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:28 PM   #144
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Great news for me anyway... I'll get the back half of the body painted tomorrow. I'll probably do the front half Thursday.

I also managed to install the transmission / engine assembly to the chassis today.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:44 PM   #145
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Great news for me anyway... I'll get the back half of the body painted tomorrow. I'll probably do the front half Thursday.

I also managed to install the transmission / engine assembly to the chassis today.
I don’t see the pictures......I know you wouldn’t post a “progress report” without pictures......right?????.......Mark
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:09 AM   #146
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I don’t see the pictures......I know you wouldn’t post a “progress report” without pictures......right?????.......Mark
Hey Mark, You are 100% correct. I can no longer seem to upload photos. I have asked Ryan what may be the cause.

I start painting in a few hours
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:42 AM   #147
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delete
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:02 PM   #148
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Finally I've figured out the photo posting issue. Pretty good for a guy who is for the most part camera ignorant.

Anyway, the body is now painted. Monday I'll start wet sanding. That's a time consuming task as most of you realize. I'll go to at least 3500 grit prior to buffing.
This project is finally coming together!
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:47 PM   #149
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You have never mentioned that you have any help in your shop. Do you have any assistance? Bill
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:09 PM   #150
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You have never mentioned that you have any help in your shop. Do you have any assistance? Bill
As I have become older, I have slowly (read: stubborn) accepted the fact I simply can't do it all... at least not as quickly as I once could.
Thus, when I need help, I am not fearful of asking
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:32 AM   #151
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Mike looks excellent!! In regards to a mercury in a ford... is the transmission case a mercury case re-stamped with a ford number?
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:40 AM   #152
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Mike, your process is unmatched and a pleasure to see.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:24 AM   #153
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Mike looks excellent!! In regards to a mercury in a ford... is the transmission case a mercury case re-stamped with a ford number?
Nope, it's a "regular ol' Ford" transmission.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:13 PM   #154
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Dropped the body down today. I am so happy
I hope to pull the jig out tomorrow and start assembling.
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:54 AM   #155
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Mike - I'm getting dehydrated from drooling so much!!
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:31 PM   #156
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I had a blast today! This is the fun part- when it finally starts going together. Now for certain there are not enough hours in the day! I don't want to stop...
Today was spent primarily on the inside of the body. I insulate any areas that will not be seen once the car is assembled. Although this car will most likely never be (road) driven, just in case it does - the insulation makes a huge difference in canceling road noise.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:15 PM   #157
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Heresy!
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:13 PM   #158
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Mike, what color is this car? I can't tell if it is black, Lyon blue or maybe dark green. Maybe my monitor just doesn't show it well enough to tell.
I would say like the others, it meets your high expectations!
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:36 AM   #159
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Mike, what color is this car? I can't tell if it is black, Lyon blue or maybe dark green. Maybe my monitor just doesn't show it well enough to tell.
I would say like the others, it meets your high expectations!
I am far from anything that could be described as a photographer. It's Lyon Blue.
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:04 AM   #160
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Still at it guys! Time, as you all know, is the rarest of commodities. Regardless, I'm making decent progress I suppose.
The doors should be painted very soon. I'll install them and do any final minor alignment that may be necessary and then start to install the top.
In the meantime, I'll complete the dash, etc. installation. Most of the work "beneath the hood" is done.
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:36 AM   #161
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Kube, Have you ever run into the problem of having judges deduct points because your cars look too good?
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:56 AM   #162
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Kube, Have you ever run into the problem of having judges deduct points because your cars look too good?
Oh yeah... I've never argued as I realize these cars were never built to this degree of quality. I take the deduction with a "grain of salt".
On a personal note, I believe deductions for so called "over restoration" causes harm to the Ford Club. Why? There are so few of restoring cars to this degree, the deductions like these discourage some from doing what "we" do.
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Old 03-24-2018, 02:16 PM   #163
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Very impressive!
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Old 03-24-2018, 06:33 PM   #164
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Mike, it's good to have you as the Advisor for 1939 and 1940 Fords, per the V8 Times. Can't think of anyone more qualified!!

Dick.
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:02 PM   #165
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Just read the whole thread; wow. I know a little of the OCD situation as I have a bit of it towards certain things as does my son. Not serious really but if my name is attached to it it has to be really good as I don't do perfect very well but I do do really good. I've paused on my current topic as I couldn't get a panel, that no one would ever see, to align by 1/16 of an inch. I get back to it, find the cure, and then finish it off. Some do good work and others do good enough. The only question I have is regarding the frame, where they gloss from general factory of more satin? Can hardly wait to see the finished product!
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:06 AM   #166
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Just read the whole thread; wow. I know a little of the OCD situation as I have a bit of it towards certain things as does my son. Not serious really but if my name is attached to it it has to be really good as I don't do perfect very well but I do do really good. I've paused on my current topic as I couldn't get a panel, that no one would ever see, to align by 1/16 of an inch. I get back to it, find the cure, and then finish it off. Some do good work and others do good enough. The only question I have is regarding the frame, where they gloss from general factory of more satin? Can hardly wait to see the finished product!
Good morning!

Your question of frame color is a bit difficult to answer. Why? Well, basically it's because there were no names like "gloss black", "satin black", and most certainly no "chassis black" etc. used by Ford. Rather, there were codes that identified the color specifications.
Now here's where it may get "tricky"- what you perceive as "gloss" may not be the same as what I perceive as "gloss".
What I can assure you of is the frame and miscellaneous chassis parts were painted what would most commonly be referred to nowadays as "gloss black". Those of us who have been fortunate to own one or more extremely well preserved '39 - '40 Fords would surely attest to the fact the black had quite a glossy sheen to it - especially those areas "hidden" well from the elements.
There are of course those that possess decently preserved cars and believe that the dulled black remaining on their frames, etc. was the authentic (or close to) sheen applied at the factory.
This is where it is necessary to understand that the frames, etc. were not painted for aesthetic beauty but rather to offer a (limited) protection against corrosion. As such, the paint, what there was of it, would most certainly fade and / or simply "flake off".
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:33 AM   #167
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Ford was so into "black" in the model T days that it was even hard in that time frame. There were two formulas just for Japan Black. Which was which has been debated too.


When I think of over restoration, I recall a local restoration shop that welds metal to intersecting body panels & doors in order to get the gaps perfect in his minds eye. Most Ford cars looked very well assembled in photos of products back in the day but I'm sure they had Friday or Monday cars slip by the inspectors at times. The assembly of the sheet metal was done by guys that did it every day with a quota to be made so I'm sure they knew all the tricks to get the fit on any particular model to the acceptable level of QC. They likely knew better than most that no two cars were exactly the same due to body die wear and other differing manufacturing techniques and quirks. If they had the time, they may have assembled them with a bit more perfection but they just plain had to work with what came down the line. I'm sure things haven't changed all that much in that respect, even in todays cars. It's hard to tell what is actually original and what is over done after the picture gets so murky over all the years since.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:33 AM   #168
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Mike, the car looks great! I personally think over restoration is a silly term.

Your assessment in my opinion of Ford’s black paint used on chassis in engine components is spot on. Take NOS engine pans for example. Those that have been protected from the elements are no doubt a gloss black. The paint technology nowadays is much better and holds a shine for much longer. A little rubbing compound applied to a NOS, or early take off original part usually proves it was originally gloss... with the exception of radiators.

As always excellent job! A Mike Kubarth restoration usually stands out from the crowd!
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:39 PM   #169
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

When I had my 40 judged at the National meet and you were head judge you went out of your way to help me correct what was wrong with the 40 so the next time I had it judge I had all the problems corrected. I want to thank you for your help with my car. I always enjoyed judging with you. you are a good teacher. We need more people like you.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:07 PM   #170
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When I had my 40 judged at the National meet and you were head judge you went out of your way to help me correct what was wrong with the 40 so the next time I had it judge I had all the problems corrected. I want to thank you for your help with my car. I always enjoyed judging with you. you are a good teacher. We need more people like you.
Wow! You made my evening. Thanks so much for the kind thoughts.
I was having a good day - you just made it great!

Are you going to Dearborn?
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:02 AM   #171
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Kube,

Are you or anyone else working on a new EFV8 Club 1940 book? I hate to say it but the current book is not very good. It lacks a lot in detail and glosses over many items. Compared to the 1935 book it is really not that good.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:38 PM   #172
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Kube,

Are you or anyone else working on a new EFV8 Club 1940 book? I hate to say it but the current book is not very good. It lacks a lot in detail and glosses over many items. Compared to the 1935 book it is really not that good.
Seth, I am working on it and I hate to admit, have been for a number of years now. It has required a huge amount of research and should (my God, I hope so) be worth the wait. I'm getting closer and closer to completing this project.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:28 AM   #173
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Seth, I am working on it and I hate to admit, have been for a number of years now. It has required a huge amount of research and should (my God, I hope so) be worth the wait. I'm getting closer and closer to completing this project.
Thanks Kube. I'm looking forward to it. No doubt it will be 1000% better than what we have now. I also understand the huge amount of work involved.
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Old 04-01-2018, 05:04 PM   #174
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Mike, isn't it true that later 30s era Fords up into the early 40s had various body and frame parts that were dipped in paint rather than sprayed? I'm thinking of frames, inner fender panels, transmission covers, engine pans. In the late seventies I restored a 37 Cabriolet and found NOS inner fender panels on which you could see runs in the original paint, which no doubt occurred when lifted out of the paint tank. I recall reading somewhere that frames were dipped too. Legend or true?

Congrats on another beautiful restoration.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:51 PM   #175
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How did you prep the frame? I didn't read that in your postings. I ask because my 40 woody has the typical surface rust (from Vermont) all over it but I am not lifting the body off like you. Did you blast it? Can this be done on my car with the body on? I know that darn media will get into everything.

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Old 04-02-2018, 09:33 AM   #176
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I had my frame sandblasted, w/ the body on, back in the late 70s. They did a very
thorough job. Even the center of the X member was stripped bare. (A fact I did not
discover until later!)
The amount of sand I found in the bottom of the doors is another story.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:17 PM   #177
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How did you prep the frame? I didn't read that in your postings. I ask because my 40 woody has the typical surface rust (from Vermont) all over it but I am not lifting the body off like you. Did you blast it? Can this be done on my car with the body on? I know that darn media will get into everything.

Thanks, Phil Swanson
Phil,
I sand blast the frames quite thoroughly. However, they are bare of any and all "attachments".
With it (frame) attached to the body would frighten me. As you realize, that sand will find places you didn't know existed.
I'm not certain how you would go about this process with the body on - at least not in a prudent way.
Sorry, I just cannot envision a way to keep the sand out of places it CAN'T get in to.
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Old 04-02-2018, 03:27 PM   #178
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^^ Plus there's no way to get the sand to where you do want it.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:54 PM   #179
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Mike, isn't it true that later 30s era Fords up into the early 40s had various body and frame parts that were dipped in paint rather than sprayed? I'm thinking of frames, inner fender panels, transmission covers, engine pans. In the late seventies I restored a 37 Cabriolet and found NOS inner fender panels on which you could see runs in the original paint, which no doubt occurred when lifted out of the paint tank. I recall reading somewhere that frames were dipped too. Legend or true?

Congrats on another beautiful restoration.
My "expertise", if it can be called that, is 1939 - 1940. That being the case, I can't offer any advice of earlier models.
And unfortunately, I can't say with 100% certainty how frames were painted in '39 - '40.
Common engineering / manufacturing sense would dictate to me at least that the frames were dipped and no doubt rotated somehow to avoid runs and "drain" back any excess paint caught in a pocket, etc. I've done a lot of these cars to date and have never found any runs in the factory paint (frame) - although that means little in the way of "proof".
It would require a lot more (wasted) paint to spray the frames and it would be much more difficult to coat all the surfaces properly.
My gut goes with "dipped"... still, I can't say for certain. Sorry.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:41 PM   #180
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My "expertise", if it can be called that, is 1939 - 1940. That being the case, I can't offer any advice of earlier models.
And unfortunately, I can't say with 100% certainty how frames were painted in '39 - '40.
Common engineering / manufacturing sense would dictate to me at least that the frames were dipped and no doubt rotated somehow to avoid runs and "drain" back any excess paint caught in a pocket, etc. I've done a lot of these cars to date and have never found any runs in the factory paint (frame) - although that means little in the way of "proof".
It would require a lot more (wasted) paint to spray the frames and it would be much more difficult to coat all the surfaces properly.
My gut goes with "dipped"... still, I can't say for certain. Sorry.
To add to that.....we know through factory pictures that early Corvette frames were SPRAY-painted with a cheap-ass asphalt-type enamel while standing straight-up on their rear frame horns, and that the MANY runs are definitively apparent as they ran toward the earth. Damned old Fords always did have better factory paint than the Chevies, apparently even on the frames. DD
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:11 PM   #181
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I'm still at it!
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:07 AM   #182
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Kube - your stuff just makes me drool!!!
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:00 AM   #183
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Excellent work. I discovered your thread last week & immediately read it from end to end. I have a 40 convertible project that is a solid shell but is missing its floors. It is good to follow the work of a someone knowledgeable in reconstructing & restoring 1940 Fords.

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Old 07-13-2018, 11:30 AM   #184
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Wow! I didn't realize it's been nearly three months since I've updated this thread.
I have made significant progress.

Some of you may recall that this is a rather rare 40 convertible. Fully documented factory installed Mercury engine with aluminum high compression heads - this car was ordered by a sheriff in Vermont.

The engine is running and sounds like a kitten purring. No leaks I've run the engine through three heat cycles and torqued the heads after each cool down period.
The body is mounted and the gaps are all set as perfectly as I am able to achieve. Even with all of the fitting prior to painting, it seems it's always a pain in the butt to fit after. How can that be? - I ask myself that every time.

The trunk lid fits nicer than any I've ever done previously as well as any I've ever seen.
That took an incredible amount of effort to achieve. It closes and latches under its own weight.


The interior has been completed as well as the top. This is only my fourth (fifth?) top I've ever done. It no doubt takes me much longer than a professional but I'm willing to compare end quality


As soon as I can get a little help installing the hood, I'll get after the front clip soon thereafter. The running boards, rear fenders, etc. take little time after that front clip is installed properly. And yes, that was installed prior to painting as well. But, to reiterate, I'm sure it won't easily go back "in place". They never seem to...


The hood and fenders are painted and ready to install.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:54 AM   #185
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Whats the story on the flathead block in the background of picture #1?

Oh, and yes this project is looking very nice. Well done of course.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:56 AM   #186
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Whats the story on the flathead block in the background of picture #1?

Oh, and yes this project is looking very nice. Well done of course.
That's a 60HP I pulled out of a coupe a few years back. In between everything else around here, I'm going to get this one ready to sell. I need to move some iron
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:36 PM   #187
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Congratulations on your progress.
I've been curious about the transmission. If this has been covered, I apologize, I missed it. The question... Did the original case come with the car? If not, how did you deal with the Mercury number? I realize you are a fanatic for detail, and I'm wondering how a person deals with getting a correct-number case for a high-points car, when presumably the original case is long-gone. And, if a person prefers to not share this sort of detail, I can understand.
Thanks, and I'm an admirer of your fine work with attention to detail. I could never do it.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:45 PM   #188
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In post#1 you mentioned that you hoped to have this convertible ready for Dearborn. When I checked into this event last month I asked if you were there already. The checkin lady mentioned that you had cancelled for the show. I was disappointed as I was hoping to meet you and see the car in the flesh!
Got to meet Old Redneck and see his gorgeous 40 as well as many other Barners from around the world. Also got to drive "johnnys" 46 wagon 400 miles roundtrip to the meet, London Ontario/Dearborn. Johnny gave me drivers test to make sure I could drive a standard before we left,seriously! Bill
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:53 PM   #189
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Congratulations on your progress.
I've been curious about the transmission. If this has been covered, I apologize, I missed it. The question... Did the original case come with the car? If not, how did you deal with the Mercury number? I realize you are a fanatic for detail, and I'm wondering how a person deals with getting a correct-number case for a high-points car, when presumably the original case is long-gone. And, if a person prefers to not share this sort of detail, I can understand.
Thanks, and I'm an admirer of your fine work with attention to detail. I could never do it.
This particular car had the authentic transmission so there was no issue to deal with.
When I've needed to "match" a case for a a restoration, I have milled the case to eliminate (neatly) the incorrect number. Stamping in the number I require for a restoration is easy of course...
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:54 PM   #190
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In post#1 you mentioned that you hoped to have this convertible ready for Dearborn. When I checked into this event last month I asked if you were there already. The checkin lady mentioned that you had cancelled for the show. I was disappointed as I was hoping to meet you and see the car in the flesh!
Got to meet Old Redneck and see his gorgeous 40 as well as many other Barners from around the world. Also got to drive "johnnys" 46 wagon 400 miles roundtrip to the meet, London Ontario/Dearborn. Johnny gave me drivers test to make sure I could drive a standard before we left,seriously! Bill
I was VERY disappointed to have had to cancel my plans. I actually had two vehicles that I'd intended on showing for the first time and possibly one more that had been shown a few years ago.

Too many "life things" got in the way. All is back to whatever "normal" is now
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:35 PM   #191
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Nice work!
I was going to ask what the two lines were in the drivers floor, but I think I figured out they must be for the top motor?
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:41 PM   #192
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First class work Kube !
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:58 PM   #193