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Old 06-28-2017, 07:18 PM   #21
deuce_roadster
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Maybe we went over this before but like Jason in TX I am wondering what cowl tag do you have, maybe a picture of it. My 40 convert project (for sale in the swap forum) has nothing like that.
I am CERTAIN your car will be stunning! And yes, you already have put LOTS of time into it.
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Old 06-28-2017, 08:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

@Kube
My good friend is a custom modeler and will spend hundreds of hours building a model.......he said the first step to rehabilitation is recognition!!!!! Nice car and great work so far.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:04 PM   #23
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

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Originally Posted by Jason in TX View Post
I'm curious what a 1940 Ford convertible cowl tag say that tells you it had a Mercury engine. I know very very little about the 40s. That's really neat.

Also, do those aluminum heads say Mercury somewhere? 99T heads or something?
The convertibles were to receive a tag on the cowl that indicated body number - nothing more. Some folks have told me their convertible never had one and had shown no sign of one. I can't argue with that. I can tell you that the convertibles were supposed to get a cowl tag.
The heads do not have Mercury upon them. They do have the "T" on the face of them, as do all 1940 Mercury heads. On the top "side" are the part numbers typical of all heads. these of course are 99AS 6049 and 6050.
I have documentation that dictates this was a special order car with the Merc engine.
If anyone is so interested, I would explain the process that was necessary to acquire a '40 Ford built in this fashion back in the day.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

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@Kube
My good friend is a custom modeler and will spend hundreds of hours building a model.......he said the first step to rehabilitation is recognition!!!!! Nice car and great work so far.
Laughin' my butt off. Only because your friend is so correct. I recognized my "sickness" decades ago. Not sure I've come too far on the road of rehabilitation though. I do feel fortunate in that it (the OCD) has manifested itself within me to produce as close to perfection as I can manage in the things I do. Came in handy when I was a tool & die maker
Many folks as you surely know have their OCD manifested in much less productive ways, like washing their hands 200+ times per day (example).
Like I said... I am fortunate that mine manifested itself in to something I enjoy so much.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Was the tag in the upper LH part of the firewall near the top. there are 3 tiny holes that never had any drive pins in them up there on my convertible that have Mandarin maroon paint in them. I vaguely remember asking you about these holes in the past. These holes are above where the wiring comes through the firewall. the 2 holes most inboard of the car are exactly 1/2" apart then the other hole is exactly 2" outboard of the outboard most hole of the ones that are 1/2" apart. All 3 of these holes are in a line parallel to the floor or I guess level. Under close examination, the holes appear to have original paint in them.
No number under the V reg like my woodie cowl either. Maybe this was a Friday car and missed the tagging.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

I had sold a deluxe coupe a few years ago that I had restored. That was also a documented "Merc" car. I know of only one other of those to still exist. It is near here (I ain't tellin') but is super rough. Still, it is documented since new so if and when I am able to acquire it - I most likely will.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:21 AM   #27
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Thumbs up Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
The trunk lids on this model never seem to "look right". Yep, the design (in my opinion) fell short of what it could / should have been.
To make it to my liking, this lid was actually cut in to four sections. A little "shrink" here, a little "stretch" there and this one fits about as perfect as they get. It closes and latches under it's own weight from just an inch above the catch.
I agree totally. I commend you for picking up what the manufacturer dropped the ball on.

I can still recall as a youngster thinking as how the forty coupe was the coolest thing ever made. I loved the tudor as well. One Sunday while pedaling my bike, as I rounded a bend I spied a convertible for the first time. In my excitement I approached the driver to see if he would be interested in making some kind of deal. Turned out he was just borrowing the car and took his two girlfriends for a ride but was now stuck with steam rising from the radiator.


Anyway, to shorten the story as I walked behind the car and viewed the trunk lid, I thought, 'a drop top is nice, but not the excellence radiated by the coupe'. Oh welll...

Kudos for tackling this hiccup. It certainly wasn't a small task.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:59 AM   #28
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

I applaud you for bringing back history one car at a time.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:02 AM   #29
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

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Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
Was the tag in the upper LH part of the firewall near the top. there are 3 tiny holes that never had any drive pins in them up there on my convertible that have Mandarin maroon paint in them. I vaguely remember asking you about these holes in the past. These holes are above where the wiring comes through the firewall. the 2 holes most inboard of the car are exactly 1/2" apart then the other hole is exactly 2" outboard of the outboard most hole of the ones that are 1/2" apart. All 3 of these holes are in a line parallel to the floor or I guess level. Under close examination, the holes appear to have original paint in them.
No number under the V reg like my woodie cowl either. Maybe this was a Friday car and missed the tagging.
Your memory is no doubt much better than mine. Still, I do recall you and I had a lengthy discussion about these tags.
Of course I can't say with any proof what actually transpired in the various assembly plants on any given day. We all know these cars were mass produced at a quick rate. There is no doubt many things that were supposed to happen were overlooked or simply ignored.

The dimples you describe on your firewall are exactly what were utilized to locate and attach these tags.
I have attached a photo of the tag that was present on my (former) Merc equipped Ford coupe. This tag, the matching serial number, trans number and title number offer only more confusion. I was never able to figure out what the "PC" was. Nor was I able to find anything in the Archives in this respect.
The stamped numbers in your firewall have been witnessed on other cars as you certainly know. They have been witnessed on closed cars as well as wagons. So, what does that mean?
I think it is obvious that no definitive process was strictly adhered to in 1940.
I firmly believe we will most likely never know with certainty what the tags and stamped number process was supposed to have been.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Since you had that tag on a coupe with a merc engine and a convert with a merc engine I wonder if the tag was a notification to the assembly personnel that there was an exception on this vehicle to be checked on a build sheet travelling with the car ie different engine? I haven't seen a tag like that on any other 40. I agree with you, we probably will never really know for sure. Thanks Mike. There is no doubt this convertible will be special. What color was it originally?
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:33 AM   #31
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
The convertibles were to receive a tag on the cowl that indicated body number - nothing more. Some folks have told me their convertible never had one and had shown no sign of one. I can't argue with that. I can tell you that the convertibles were supposed to get a cowl tag.
The heads do not have Mercury upon them. They do have the "T" on the face of them, as do all 1940 Mercury heads. On the top "side" are the part numbers typical of all heads. these of course are 99AS 6049 and 6050.
I have documentation that dictates this was a special order car with the Merc engine.
If anyone is so interested, I would explain the process that was necessary to acquire a '40 Ford built in this fashion back in the day.
We've discussed this before,but my 2 40 convs.never had cowl tags as near as I can tell.The one has holes for a tag,and the firewalls are different from each other.My 40 coupe has the same firewall as one of the convs.,but the firewall that is in the other is the same as the one you pictured a while back.
The engine in one has aluminum Canadian heads with a 4 barrel intake and headers.The modifications to the engine was done before 1968.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:00 AM   #32
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Kube,

When it's done I'll treat you to the first tank of petrol ! (gas in your language)....PROMISE !
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:08 PM   #33
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

PC could have meant a lot of things. Production Code, Production Change, or Police Car just to name a few. What it actually means doesn't matter as much as just having it correct for all it had in its original form.

It looks like you have worked a lot of the issues with the body out so far. Sticking to schedule, your likely not to far off from the goal you set. This will certainly be an interesting project to finish up.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:16 PM   #34
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
Since you had that tag on a coupe with a merc engine and a convert with a merc engine I wonder if the tag was a notification to the assembly personnel that there was an exception on this vehicle to be checked on a build sheet travelling with the car ie different engine? I haven't seen a tag like that on any other 40. I agree with you, we probably will never really know for sure. Thanks Mike. There is no doubt this convertible will be special. What color was it originally?
The tag on the coupe was unlike any I'd ever seen either. In fact the serial number on that car beginning with "PC" I'd never seen before (or since).
The tags I have seen on convertibles simply indicated body number. I have attached herein the tag from this car.
Another oddity I have noted is that this car and the one I knew of in New York both had "99" stamped in to the firewall, my coupe did not.
The "99" stamp would in my opinion be the "note" to the assembly line worker to install the Merc engine.
What do I know? Not much when it comes to these Merc powered Fords. it seems there was not much of a definitive method of production.

This car was built Lyon Blue and shall be once again.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

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Originally Posted by Milt/Las Vegas View Post
We've discussed this before,but my 2 40 convs.never had cowl tags as near as I can tell.The one has holes for a tag,and the firewalls are different from each other.My 40 coupe has the same firewall as one of the convs.,but the firewall that is in the other is the same as the one you pictured a while back.
The engine in one has aluminum Canadian heads with a 4 barrel intake and headers.The modifications to the engine was done before 1968.
There was an "early" firewall and a "late" firewall... both somewhat different from one another. No doubt one of your cars was an early build. That would explain the differences you note.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:21 PM   #36
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

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PC could have meant a lot of things. Production Code, Production Change, or Police Car just to name a few. What it actually means doesn't matter as much as just having it correct for all it had in its original form.

It looks like you have worked a lot of the issues with the body out so far. Sticking to schedule, your likely not to far off from the goal you set. This will certainly be an interesting project to finish up.
I too have came up with the possibilities you mention. Still, I could never find any documentation that would support any theory.

I will build this exactly as the "build letter" showed it to be ordered. No radio nor heater will make it kind of odd for a convertible as it seems most seen at a show these days are loaded with accessories.
The "build letter" did not call out for either so this car won't be getting them.

The letter did not specify tires. I am still on the fence as to what I might install. They will be the optional 6:50 but whites or blacks?
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:58 AM   #37
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Kube, If I were closer I'd love to come help you and learn at the same time. I have the feeling though that you would kick my ass out of the shop! Project looks good so far. Hopefully we get to meet up in Dearborn.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:21 PM   #38
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

First class work Kube ,it will be all worth it in the end .Ted
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:19 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Kube

In 1935 ford had a Phaeton coupe, why not in 1940?
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Old 07-01-2017, 12:26 PM   #40
Milt/Las Vegas
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Default Re: Rare '40 convertible restoration project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
The convertibles were to receive a tag on the cowl that indicated body number - nothing more. Some folks have told me their convertible never had one and had shown no sign of one. I can't argue with that. I can tell you that the convertibles were supposed to get a cowl tag.
The heads do not have Mercury upon them. They do have the "T" on the face of them, as do all 1940 Mercury heads. On the top "side" are the part numbers typical of all heads. these of course are 99AS 6049 and 6050.
I have documentation that dictates this was a special order car with the Merc engine.
If anyone is so interested, I would explain the process that was necessary to acquire a '40 Ford built in this fashion back in the day.
The heads on one of my 40 convs.have C7RA6050B made in Canada and are aluminum.
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