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Old 09-10-2016, 01:41 PM   #141
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

The last batch for the day
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:47 PM   #142
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One of the axles looks a little short!
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:04 PM   #143
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

Something that never occurred to me before, but with regard to the gasket packs, if one were to simply reuse the same packs, that's all well and good, but must also use the same housings as came off on each side. This of course is mandatory for '37 and up, but the early housings can be flipped, thereby making it important to get them on the same side. On those earlier housings, the better way would be to inspect the outer bearing surface and put the best surface on the bottom, then deal with which gaskets go where.

On reassembly, dress down any burrs that appear on both the banjo and the housings, and do not chase the threads on the banjo, as they are intentionally tight to help prevent oil seepage. Use non hardening thread sealer on every bolt, and wire brush the excess before it sets up.
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:05 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jseery View Post
one of the axles looks a little short!
lol!!!
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:09 PM   #145
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38v8...I think my axle housing are one directional.

I went back out and wiped down the gasket surface and there are gaskets on both housings. One broke when I took the housing off and this gasket measures .006. The gasket on the other housing is intact with the exception of a little piece missing at the outer edge of one of the bolt holes. I didn't remove this gasket so I can't measure it.
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:34 PM   #146
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The gaskets come in a verity of sizes so you can get the stack down to within a few thousands. Speedways set has the following sizes included in their axle gasket kit:

•(2) - White gasket thickness - .003"
•(2) - Ivory gasket thickness - .005"
•(2) - Green gasket thickness - .007"
•(2) - Blue gasket thickness - .009"

VanPelt sells a BEST Gasket set, looks like it has the same size ranges.

Total of both sides determines bearing preload and the difference between them determines backlash. Everyone I know sets them by "feel" as to both preload and backlash.
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:58 PM   #147
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

Since you are going to need to remove the diff and axle shafts anyway spend some more $$ and install brake drum retainers. They are not expensive and they work.
Vern Tardell has them.
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:10 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
The gaskets come in a verity of sizes so you can get the stack down to within a few thousands. Speedways set has the following sizes included in their axle gasket kit:

(2) - White gasket thickness - .003"
(2) - Ivory gasket thickness - .005"
(2) - Green gasket thickness - .007"
(2) - Blue gasket thickness - .009"

VanPelt sells a BEST Gasket set, looks like it has the same size ranges.

Total of both sides determines bearing preload and the difference between them determines backlash. Everyone I know sets them by "feel" as to both preload and backlash.
The second pic you're showing looks like what I was planning on ordering from van pelts...looks like there's just one gasket though. Are all the sizes neatly stacked to look like one?
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:11 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Init1 View Post
Since you are going to need to remove the diff and axle shafts anyway spend some more $$ and install brake drum retainers. They are not expensive and they work.
Vern Tardell has them.

Already ordered...along with his rear end book. Thanks!
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:46 PM   #150
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They are stacked, it list 8, 2 of each of the sizes on the label. The label is a little hard to read, but list the sizes included by color. The second photo is from Best site.
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:53 PM   #151
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Not sure of the right way to do this here but I'm officially in the market for an axle shaft that's 32 7/8" long with 16 teeth. Anybody have one of these in their inventory that they'd be willing to sell. Thanks!
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:00 PM   #152
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

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Originally Posted by Capt Kirk View Post
38v8...I think my axle housing are one directional.

I went back out and wiped down the gasket surface and there are gaskets on both housings. One broke when I took the housing off and this gasket measures .006. The gasket on the other housing is intact with the exception of a little piece missing at the outer edge of one of the bolt holes. I didn't remove this gasket so I can't measure it.
Capt, good job on disassembly! A few comments.....

1. 37 to 40 axle housings are normally one directional, although I have seen them swapped around by some hotroders to give some funky spring possitions.
2. In one of your earlier pictures, taken of the rear banjo center, I noticed standard, non ford, bolts with lock washers bolting the axle housings bell ends to the banjo housing. The stock Ford bolts used here are special to help in sealing as are the female threaded holes on the banjo housing. I would suggest getting the original type bolts to use there.
3. Many folks probably do set bearing preloads and backlash by feel. This is the way I did mine in 2013, and in 2015 that rear had a complete failure, and all that I could salvage from that mess were the two axle housings and the torque tube. I used measuring devices this spring to make those setting on my rebuilt rear, and I plan to do any future rebuilds this way rather than by feel.
4. When you measure those shim gaskets that were between the housing bells and the banjo housing, keep in mind that those gaskest get compressed when all bolts are final torqued. So, for example, if you measure the thickness of an old/used gasket @ 0.007", it most likely started out at something like 0.008". Just sayin'... you would probably not be correct in putting a new 0.007" gasket back in.
5. Also, if the carrier bearings and their cups/races look good, and you decide to reuse them, keep in mind there has been some wear on those bearings over the years, and putting the rear back together with original shim/gasket thicknesses will more than likely not give you the correct preload, IMO.
6. While you have things this far apart, I would strongly suggest replacing all three rear seals, two in the small ends of axle housings and one in the front of the torque tube.

I believe there were some other things I noted as I reread this entire post earlier today, but when suffering from CRS, I could only recall these 6 things. If and when I remember more, I will just add them to this list.

ps...keep up the good work Capt, you did well today getting all this done, I assume working alone? You are much faster at this than I am, but than you might be a bit younger and still full of pep and vigor .
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:14 PM   #153
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[B] Many folks probably do set bearing preloads and backlash by feel. This is the way I did mine in 2013, and in 2015 that rear had a complete failure, and all that I could salvage from that mess were the two axle housings and the torque tube. I used measuring devices this spring to make those setting on my rebuilt rear, and I plan to do any future rebuilds this way rather than by feel.
This is going to get me in BIG trouble with JM (and who knows who else!!!), but just couldn't resist! Just doesn't say much for your "feel" ability JM!!!

I've never seen a failure based on this factor, but would guess it is possible. We set up a LOT of race environment banjos and always by feel. But if you are uneasy with that by all means measure it. My QC is even set up by feel, myself I trust that far more that instrument reading in this limited application.

On 9 inch and 8.8 inch it is totally by very careful precision measuring, but not on the banjo. This is just me, not trying to persuade anyone, you should do what you are comfortable with.
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:25 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan View Post
Capt, good job on disassembly! A few comments.....

1. 37 to 40 axle housings are normally one directional, although I have seen them swapped around by some hotroders to give some funky spring possitions.
2. In one of your earlier pictures, taken of the rear banjo center, I noticed non standard ford bolts with lock washers bolting the axle housings bell ends to the banjo housing. These standard Ford bolts are special to help in sealing as are the female threaded holes on the banjo housing. I would suggest getting the original type bolts to use there.
3. Many folks probably do set bearing preloads and backlash by feel. This is the way I did mine in 2013, and in 2015 that rear had a complete failure, and all that I could salvage from that mess were the two axle housings and the torque tube. I used measuring devices this spring to make those setting on my rebuilt rear, and I plan to do any future rebuilds this way rather than by feel.
4. When you measure those shim gaskets that were between the housing bells and the banjo housing, keep in mind that those gaskest get compressed when all bolts are final torqued. So for example, if you measure the thickness of an old/used gasket @ 0.007" it most likely started out at something like 0.008". Just sayin'... you would probably not be correct in putting a new 0.008" gasket back in.
5. Also, if the carrier bearings and their cups look good and you decide to reuse them, keep in mind there has been some wear on those bearings and putting the rear back together with original shim/gasket thickness will more than likely not give you the correct preload, IMO.
6. While you have things this far apart, I would strongly suggest replacing all three rear seals, two in the small ends of axle housings and one in the front of the torque tube.I believe there were some other things I noted as I reread this entire post earlier today, but when suffering from CRS, I could only recall the 6 things. If and when I remember more, I will just add them to this list.

ps...keep up the good work Capt, you did well today getting all this done, I assume working alone? You are much faster at this than I am, but than you might be a bit younger and still full of pep and vigor .
JM, LOL, pep and vigor...not hardly. You made some very good and helpful points. Regarding the banjo bolts...good eye!...not knowing any better, when I restored the car, I thought it would be a nice feature to have stainless bolts there. I removed one at a time and replaced the originals. I'm sure I still have the original bolts in Fairbanks. As far as pre-loads and backlash, I'm going to have to reference my book when it gets here. I'm going to have to buy a mag base and dial indicator...and that's OK...I've been wanting one for some time now. I've got micrometers out to 4", calipers and a bore gauge...I need the mag base setup!
With regards to the old gasket being compressed. I was wondering about that. The one I measured was .006 and figured that over the decades, it would have compressed at least a little. The thinner a material is the less it will compress. I'm not sure a .007 gasket would compress to .006. I was thinking about putting a new .006 gasket on and letting it compress whatever it will and seeing how that works with any bearing (carrier bearings and races look really good) and gear wear. Good place to start anyway.
Regarding seals, I was planning on replacing the axle and hub seals...didn't give much thought to the seal in the torque tube. I wasn't planning on pulling the torque tube off...is this seal you're talking about at the trans end of the torque tube?
All this vim and vigor resulted in a sore back so I'm sitting in my rocker with 12 oz of back pain medicine.
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:31 PM   #155
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This is going to get me in BIG trouble with JM (and who knows who else!!!), but just couldn't resist! Just doesn't say much for your "feel" ability JM!!!

I've never seen a failure based on this factor, but would guess it is possible. We set up a LOT of race environment banjos and always by feel. But if you are uneasy with that by all means measure it. My QC is even set up by feel, myself I trust that far more that instrument reading in this limited application.

On 9 inch and 8.8 inch it is totally by very careful precision measuring, but not on the banjo. This is just me, not trying to persuade anyone, you should do what you are comfortable with.
Don't spoil my chance at getting another tool! "Honey, I NEED this tool in order that we don't break down making it necessary for you to push the car"
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:40 PM   #156
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Don't spoil my chance at getting another tool! "Honey, I NEED this tool in order that we don't break down making it necessary for you to push the car"
Now there is a GOOD point!
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Old 09-10-2016, 05:15 PM   #157
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Ring gear pattern.
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Old 09-10-2016, 05:56 PM   #158
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Regarding seals, I was planning on replacing the axle and hub seals...didn't give much thought to the seal in the torque tube. I wasn't planning on pulling the torque tube off...is this seal you're talking about at the trans end of the torque tube?
Kirk....Here's a drawing showing the B-4245 seal at the FRONT of the torque tube. Remember, you need to remove that little snap ring to pull the TT off the drive shaft, and to remove the speedo gear, roller bearing, etc. from the front of the shaft. Ya done good getting that rear totally un-glued today. DD

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Old 09-10-2016, 06:21 PM   #159
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Coop, I was hoping to not pull the torque tube if I didn't need to. I know it's easy but I don't want to create problems where none exists. Thanks for the sketches...it shows a lot.
I did notice that my spedo gear has about 3/16" play (forward to back on the shaft)...is that normal? I have pics in both positions...will post if necessary.
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:24 PM   #160
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I haven't been in that end of a torque tube in eons, but everyone seems to say that that range of play is OK. DD
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