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Old 09-07-2016, 05:13 PM   #61
Capt Kirk
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

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There should be very little movement in & out of the axle. If there is movement something is wrong (other than the obvious brake at the end).
That answered my question. The axle will move in and out the same amount whether or not the hub is on? I didn't check in and out movement but I started the car with that wheel off and it was making that noise again with the broken axle spinning. I suspect an issue with the spiders since it wasn't making that noise running down the road before the break. Guess we'll see when I get into this...ugggg.
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Old 09-07-2016, 05:19 PM   #62
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Also, with the hub installed on a good axle, does the hub put a little tension on the axle to keep the gear end of the axle up snug against the spider carrier? I hope the answer is yes...if not, I may have more problems inside.
No. The hub does not contact the axle in a way that would limit end float. In my experience, you can have some end float and that is ok. The end float is determined in the clearances in the diff. My 40 had hardly any on one side and quite a lot on the other. I don't want to quote figures because I don't know what is acceptable. I'm just offering the opinion that some amount of end play is perfectly acceptable.

The axle turning may make a noise because it does not have an outer bearing to stop it rubbing on the seal/casing. There is a seal in the axle a couple of inches in, and the shaft will be resting on it.

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Old 09-07-2016, 05:36 PM   #63
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The axle turning may make a noise because it does not have an outer bearing to stop it rubbing on the seal/casing. There is a seal in the axle a couple of inches in, and the shaft will be resting on it.

Mart.
I hadn't thought of that...I'll keep my fingers crossed!
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Old 09-07-2016, 05:41 PM   #64
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

Are we talking a few thousands here or a 1/2 inch? When you say moving in and out I'm assuming you are referring to a significant amont.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:05 PM   #65
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Are we talking a few thousands here or a 1/2 inch? When you say moving in and out I'm assuming you are referring to a significant amont.
Not sure if you were asking me or Mart. I just went and checked mine. Just by pushing and pulling with my hands...right side, I can't "feel" any movement but can hear that there is an imperceptible amount of movement. On the broken axle side, with some channel locks, I feel and hear no movement but it rotates nicely.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:30 PM   #66
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In your experience, how hard of a time do you think I'll have in finding an axle? Are there some around or will this be like searching for a Unicorn?
I'd start by contacting the Early Ford Store in San Dimas at the link below......they have STUFF! If that doesn't work, there are several other sources available from 'Barn sources. DD

http://earlyfordstore.com/
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:39 PM   #67
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Thanks Coop, I will contact them once I know what I need. Looks like I've got my weekend project lined up.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:49 PM   #68
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Thanks...I guess I won't send it to the crusher after all...
Cap, neither of my cars are that tidy underneath. You've got your fluids under control. There's that!
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:20 PM   #69
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Cap, neither of my cars are that tidy underneath. You've got your fluids under control. There's that!
Only drop it leaks is out of the radiator overflow. Was almost embarrassing with the original water pumps but in my instance, the coolant under the cap now is essentially full and it stays there since I got my skips pumps. No oil, trans or diff leals...I'm pounding on wood!!
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:16 PM   #70
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

Now I really gotta get serious about some axle retainers. Looks like you're lucky to still have a fender and likely much worse! Yikes.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:25 PM   #71
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...The axle turning may make a noise because it does not have an outer bearing to stop it rubbing on the seal/casing. There is a seal in the axle a couple of inches in, and the shaft will be resting on it.

Mart.
Because the hub bearing is relieved of supporting the broken axle, I would think the outer seal has taken a beating from the diagnosis process of going through the gears with engine running. Whether that is the case or not, it's best to replace that seal, as not doing so may have your brake shoes floating in oil.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:31 AM   #72
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Is there a recommended book on rebuilding these rear ends? I'd like to get that ordered today.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:55 AM   #73
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

Someone earlier said Vern Tardel has a book. I have seen some in depth articles , with pictures!, over on the HAMB.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:57 AM   #74
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

You now know what can happen with these axles. You will need to maganuflux and also dye penetrant test your replacement axle to insure it is not already cracked and I would HIGHLY recommend you take the one that didn't break and test it at the same time. I would not be the least bit surprised to see it has a crack starting in the same place the failed axle did. These cracks get started when the hub works back and forth on the key.
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Old 09-08-2016, 10:55 AM   #75
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

Both the 1932-37 and 1938-40 Service Bulletins have sections are rebuilding
the rear axle.

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Old 09-08-2016, 11:00 AM   #76
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

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Is there a recommended book on rebuilding these rear ends? I'd like to get that ordered today.
Here's Vern Tardel's book on Amazon;


https://www.amazon.com/Ford-1932-48-...%3AVern+Tardel
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:13 PM   #77
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I'll get Vern's book ordered when I get home tonight...thanks guys!
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:26 PM   #78
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Default Re: Awwe Crap!

This should be a wakeup call to all of us who do not have some type of safety device/mechanism in place to retain the wheel/hub/drum/end of axle assembly to prevent these parts from coming off the car in the event of a broken axle.
I'm going to look into some type of retention system to incorporate on the banjo rears of my orginal '35's with mecanical brakes. If I had hydraulic brakes like Ford used from '39 - '48, I would just go with the U shaped brackets like Vern Tardell originally came up with and are now available from many other sources, that bolt on the backing plates by using the wheel cylinder bolts. If I can't come up with some type of U shaped bracket approch, I will go with the two piece design that gets one piece welded on the internal part of the hub..
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:06 PM   #79
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This should be a wakeup call to all of us who do not have some type of safety device/mechanism in place to retain the wheel/hub/drum/end of axle assembly to prevent these parts from coming off the car in the event of a broken axle.
I'm going to look into some type of retention system to incorporate on the banjo rears of my orginal '35's with mecanical brakes. If I had hydraulic brakes like Ford used from '39 - '48, I would just go with the U shaped brackets like Vern Tardell originally came up with and are now available from many other sources, that bolt on the backing plates by using the wheel cylinder bolts. If I can't come up with some type of U shaped bracket approch, I will go with the two piece design that gets one piece welded on the internal part of the hub..
I read mention of a wheel retainer in a previous post and I understand the goal but am having difficulty envisioning how that can be accomplished.
I'm grateful that it broke when I was fully stopped...any other time could have been devastating...could have even resulted in a head on collision with the kind of traffic we have around here. I will be taking both axles to the machine shop for magnafluxing before they get installed.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:15 PM   #80
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The retainers do just that, they retain the hub and drum so that it can not come off of the bearing. Such as in your case, you would not have been able to remove the drum until the retainer was removed. There are different types, but a simple one bolts behind the backing plate then extends up and over the backing plate and then curls over the drum. It doesn't touch it, but with a broken axle it prevents the hub from moving out more than a short distance

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